Tares Reveal Themselves by what they DON’T Say...And They Are With us Here .How to Identify Them...

Ferris Bueller said:

I don't think legalism is defined by being able to lose your salvation. I was trying to start a discussion about what legalism is. It's not being told you'll go to hell if you don't repent. Don't you agree?

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Legalists very much believe in the loss of salvation.. this is what makes them vultures... their eyes are always looking... watching...and judging others... They are unwilling to see the log in their own eyes... It's a nasty brew of toxic tea.... and it drips with hypocrisy...

Anyways... I haven't even had my first cup of tea yet... I need to be done here... as I refuse to start my day on a negative note... LOL

Addy said:

Legalists very much believe in the loss of salvation.. this is what makes them vultures... their eyes are always looking... watching...and judging others... They are unwilling to see the log in their own eyes... It's a nasty brew of toxic tea.... and it drips with hypocrisy...

Anyways... I haven't even had my first cup of tea yet... I need to be done here... as I refuse to start my day on a negative note... LOL

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I'm very much against the legalist too. It's just that I think we should be careful to know what exactly constitutes being a legalist. I don't think telling someone this, for example, constitutes being a legalist......


Now if someone changed the things listed to things like 'not going to church', 'smoking', 'not participating in church clean up day', 'not tithing', 'not witnessing', then yeah, we're dealing with a legalist focused on the outer leafy trappings of Christianity, not the fruit of the Spirit in Christianity. And if they say not doing their list of things literally earns your salvation, then yes, you're dealing with a legalist in every Biblical sense of the word. But simply saying unrepentant sinners go to hell does not make a person a legalist. I'm confident you agree with that.

Addy said:

@Ferris Bueller ... I am also college educated.... LOL.... which means absolutely NOTHING... as I find those who are highly educated often have a difficult time with simplicity and mystery.... Consider two people...

One is raised in a very negative environment... the father is an authoritarian task-master and the mother is always worried about appearances... the child grows up MOST insecure and filled with the need to perform for her self-worth...

The other child is raised in a home where Daddy is her hero... her prince and she is lavishly loved and cherished by both parents. This child grows up KNOWING full well what her worth is.

That is the difference in how some see and perceive Christianity.... some perceive God as angry... and always JUDGING performance... These Christians are "sin-focused".... and in all honesty ... they are a miserable lot... always putting their noses in others business... correcting...judging... condemning...

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I'm in definite agreement that it is not right to condemn others or to judge them. God knows that @Blood Bought 1953 has judged and condemned me on not a few occasions.

However, correcting is something that we are commanded to do. The Holy Spirit does correct others through certain people. Verses to ponder...2 Timothy 4:2, Psalms 94:10.

Addy said:

The one who believes in GRACE... is given an IDENTITY at the BEGINNING of conversion...They become IN CHRIST... therefore they are free to LIVE their lives in peace and with JOY.

The assumption and accusation that those of us who are RESTING in our position are CONDONING sin... is an ABSOLUTE LIE.... and it doesn't matter how often one states... I DO NOT CONDONE sin of ANY KIND.... the rebuttal always comes back as YES you do...

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I certainly do not think that you condone sin...while the doctrine that preaches that sin does not matter to your salvation is a doctrine that to some extent does condone it. But I don't think that you are preaching that doctrine. Are you?

Addy said:

NO ONE .... EVER gets away with SIN. Those who accuse others of hypocrisy are the very ones who are living a life filled with it... because they think they are BETTER than others.

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Are you accusing anyone of hypocrisy here?

Addy said:

not to mention teaching that one can lose their salvation is a LIE against what GOD said.

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No.

God has said that if anyone has a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel), that they can "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13) and/or "stand by faith" and then be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22). Notice that Luke 8:12-13 teaches, with Ephesians 2:8-9, that in believing for a while, they were saved....not from eternal damnation...for their eternal destiny was not changed to heaven by their temporary faith....but from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14) and the kingdom of hell.

@justbyfaith ... I have no idea what doctrine you think condones sin... but I have been VERY CLEAR... I do NOT condone sin... therefore I guess my issue is with CORRECTION... and the execution of it by believers...

I think the problem with correction is that it is highly abused... and also the other problem is that the church no longer takes the position of shepherding the flock ( which yes... would include correction when one has FALLEN away )... Perhaps there lacks discipleship... What is seen today in the legalistic circles is simply an abuse of power and false authority... in my opinion....

As a mother... I have the right to correct my children... and I have been put in this position of having to tell my adult daughter that I do not agree with what she is doing. She is now 28... and I no longer have that right... over the years... I have been open with all kinds of topics... she knows what my beliefs are on all matters... including the fact that I do NOT embrace anything within the LGBTQ agenda. These things only have to be discussed once... and what we as believers need to work out is how to deal with SINNERS who practice all kinds of things.

Again... I do not feel I have the right to correct ANYONE that I do not KNOW personally...

Correction must be done with a prayerful heart and with much LOVE... THIS is not what the legalists do... they simply judge and condemn.

I am not willing to partake in this discussion any longer... as you seem to enjoy these long chats and challenges... and I don't.

As for how you have been treated on this thread... I have a rule... IF you argue with me and disrespect me... you no longer have the right to speak to me... and it works well... there are some within these forums that I absolutely IGNORE.

Blessings to you and have a lovely day... I am OUT.

I will simply say my point of view on the issue of correction then, @Addy. Feel free to ignore me if that is what you desire to do. This is a public forum and therefore you are not my only audience.

2Ti 4:2, Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Or, in the NLT,

2Ti 4:2, Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.

I will also say that the Holy Spirit is the LORD; and that He uses people in whom He dwells to correct people in the body of Christ. Unbelievers, too.

Psa 94:8, Understand, ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise?
Psa 94:9, He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?
Psa 94:10, He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?
Psa 94:11, The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.
Psa 94:12, Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

Addy said:

I think the problem with correction is that it is highly abused... and also the other problem is that the church no longer takes the position of shepherding the flock ( which yes... would include correction when one has FALLEN away )...

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After one has fallen away, correction might be useless...for that person cannot come to repentance (Hebrews 6:1-8).

It is the ones who have not fallen away but are heading in that direction who need correction...and you are accurate to say that such a thing is the function that should be adopted by the church as it takes the position of shepherding the flock.

That being said, do you not believe that the church is composed of members of the body of Christ?

Ought not members of the body of Christ correct those who need correction therefore?

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Tares Reveal Themselves by...

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I think that you miss a key point from the parable, "Tares will go undetected."

When the farm workers proposed,
the Farmer said,

The tares [CHINOs] are entangled with the wheat [Christians] and we do not/cannot recognize them. God does not fault us for not recognizing them. He just withholds their judgment for our benefit [Matthew 13:30]. Verse 30 seems to be saying that Christians will be shocked, surprised and pained when the "tares" are finally revealed.

Judas was a type for the "tares."

justbyfaith said:

I will simply say my point of view on the issue of correction then, @Addy. Feel free to ignore me if that is what you desire to do. This is a public forum and therefore you are not my only audience.

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I did not state I desired to ignore you... I was sharing what I do with those who like to argue and disrespect me. YOU have not done so... however... I am not one to deliberate on end about a topic... I usually say my peace and then move on. Perhaps that is part of being an only child... I am not used to hearing many voices.

Anyways... again... YES... correction has its place.... however... I have not experienced many times where I FELT the need to do so... I absolutely believe that GOD is the CONVICTER and CORRECTER of sin... Too many busy bodies thinking it's their place to set others STRAIGHT... It's not my cup of tea... I have seen this correction happen over and over again...

People seem to forget that sin has consequences all on its own... People who are engaging in sinful lifestyles and making sinful choices are LOOKING for something to FILL a VOID... Only God can fill that void... and HE delights in bringing the sinner unto HIM.

My job is to live in peace ( as much as possible )... I am not one to sit back and declare peace when there is no peace... I am a peace maker not a peace keeper... I live my life in such a way where I have a relationship with Christ... He is my best friend... He is my ONLY HOPE... HE is MY REDEEMER... and so my job is to simply THANK HIM and PRAISE HIM.

That is my feeling on the topic of correction... It is something that is overly USED... with the excuse of fulfilling our duties.

Look what all I missed

Blood Bought 1953 said:

You accused me of being somebody that never opened a Bible.... you needed to be enlightened to the truth.....that’s what I did....A person that reads it just one time and understands it is better off than somebody that reads it a thousand times....any fool knows that....

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The reason I brought it up is because you were saying things that had simple, plain scriptures that exactly oppose what you were saying. And so I thought you must not know about those verses and that's why you were mislead about the things you were talking about.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

When will you join us as people that actually Believe the Gospel Of Paul, given to him by Jesus personally, and prove you believe it by Resting in it instead of Adding to it and Falling from Grace?

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See? You're doing it again.

@Blood Bought 1953 , you just don't know what a legalist is. That's the whole problem here.

Ferris Bueller said:

I've been saying all along I have no problem with anyone thinking that the true believer will never go back to not believing. I'm talking to the people who think you can be an unbeliever again and remain saved. It's the exact polar opposite of the legalist, but just as deadly.

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I know what you've been saying.

You preach an uncertain salvation, dependant on your own ability.

Much love!

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Trust your instincts—— Tares here are out to destroy your Simple Faith and take away a Joy That they have no concept of....don't engage with them.....I don’t think you are cut out for it..... I am..... God bless....

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You are correct and so I am formally deciding NOT to serve anymore snacks here... LOL
You can still order gum however... as I have so much of it.. I need to get rid of it...

Blood Bought 1953 said:

..it’s ALWAYS a Trap.....the “Accusers Of the Brethren” love to hang out in these Forums..

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What are you being accused of??????

We're talking doctrine here. If anybody is accusing anybody of anything it's you. But I've been letting it roll off my back.

marks said:

I know what you've been saying.

You preach an uncertain salvation, dependant on your own ability.

Much love!

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Nobody can believe except by God's grace. You either take it or you leave it.

Sometimes to understand what it is....you have to understand what it is not.
Christ and Apostles did not travel around teaching a Gospel of tolerance to sin.
Christ and the Apostles did not embrace sinful lifestyles...homosexuals, cross dressing effeminates, whoremongers, drunkards etc.
Likewise the Bible does not give tolerance to sin.
The Good News of the Bible, is not sin all you want and go to heaven.
Until recently no one suggested that Christianity was tolerant to sinful lifestyles...this is all social adaptations.