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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    The Only difference between the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of Grace unto salvation is that the Gospel of the Kingdom is based on the soon coming King of Kings. There comes a time when men no longer repent of the wickedness (sixth trumpet) after which the judgment decree is pronounced...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Do You know what sackcloth is? mesh, sackcloth, sack, sacking H8242 - śaq - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org) It is a loosely woven mesh material that is done so purposely to allow water to drain out of it, Think Burlap, the color of the thread makes no difference, as it is a...
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    Zerubbabel and John the Apostle will be the two witnesses

    Zerubbabel: In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts. (Haggai 2:23) See Haggai 2:21-22 to see what day this refers to. John: And he...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Matthew 24:29) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    The error that leads to this problem is in the assumptions made by the pretribulation adherents. The saints are clearly around until after the mark of the beast as per what is said in Revelation 14 where they are mentioned the last time on earth having to endure. So In order to explain this...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Low tolerance IS an emotional response.... you just don't get it do you. The fact that you do not know my point is a direct result of your emotions affecting your ability to interact in a normal logical way with a fellow forum participant, and shows your emotional state. I Have expressed my...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Exactly my point, my comment offended you as is indicative of this response. NOT ONCE have you refuted the point of made showing the contradiction in the pretrib viewpoint.... NOT ONCE, instead, you bloviate about my misbehaviour, which shows you are offended by my criticism, without a coherent...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    It is a rational criticism of a theory, one that you make personal, because I am disagreeing with you? One that others have a "personal vested interest in" promoting rather than critically analyzing the contradictions in that position. In Other words criticism becomes personal because they see...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    I Am pointing to a fundamental contradiction in the pre trib viewpoint, One that they have to explain with a concept known as the "tribulation saints" Ie. those who were rejected for the rapture as tares, now become saints, and a great multitude of them having come out of the Great tribulation...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    I Just read a bunch of your posts, and boy are they full of "human imagination" and lacking scriptural basis. Perhaps you cannot see this in your own comments.... for example: "the week of the 7th Trumpet" please tell me where this is found in scripture, or is this just a figment of the...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    You see how ingrained this concept is in your thinking that you cannot even consider and explore what is being said here? This is what I mean about very few eschatology scholars being able to be taught what contradicts their base assumptions. This is why prophecy forums are always stuck in a...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Look carefully at the word "Midst of", it is saying for half the week... In Other words the abomination lasts half of the week, Not placing it in the midst of the week. Here is the translation from the ESV as that shows this better for you to see: And he shall make a strong covenant with many...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    This is where most Prophecy teachers get it wrong. It is an assumption that comes from a linear reading of the book of Revelation, But the truth as I have come to see it is that Revelation is not linear, but a series of overlapping visions. Without getting into a long description of this, i use...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    I Agree with the 3.5 years, but i believe the Mark of the Beast will be what divides the wheat and the tares. The man of sin is revealed first and commits the abomination of desolation which is the start of the tribulation (Matthew 24:14-15, 2 Thessalonians 2:3) The beast will make war on the...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    More like the wheat and the tares. Both are ripening in the same field together, the church, till the Angels separate the tares and throw them into the fire, while the wheat is then gathered into the barn.... notice the wheat is not gathered first.
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Actually i would rather have the entire church believing in the pretrib rapture, because they would then be the first to see the need to repent, so I do not malign that position even though i disagree with it. That being said, many of those people will fall away when faced with the Mark of the...
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    No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

    Saints are those who take up their cross and follow Jesus. My take is that the saints "willfully" enter the tribulation knowing full well what they will face and do so out of meekness and Love as a testimony for the Lost. The way I see it, the final week is divided into two periods, the...
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    Does the Bible teach the need for an initimate personal relationship with Christ?

    Your over thinking the simplicity of the concept. "My sheep hear my voice..." you either Know him intimately or you do not. These are not complicated theological concepts, but ones that are based on childlike faith. By trying to overcomplexify these things you are doing a disservice to the body...
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    Does the Bible teach the need for an initimate personal relationship with Christ?

    Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23 You have a...
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    Does the Bible teach the need for an initimate personal relationship with Christ?

    Hi, I Have not read all the responses but will put my two cents in here. Basically, we are his sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. (John 10:14) That shepherd sheep relationship is the start of our Christian journey.... This Bond is based on hearing, and...