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zeke, Thanks for your well thought-out response. I agree with the law of non-contradiction as it applies to the Bible. However, your example does not fit this category. I will explain below: First, it is important to understand that we should draw our understanding about the meaning and...

ewq, Have you ever read a harmony of the Gospels? Jesus' travels have been studied in detail. It is not difficult to harmonize the Gospels based on the travels of Jesus. So how would you define repentance? Wasn't Jesus' call to the rich young ruler to sell all he had and follow him a call...

ewq, A couple of issues here. First, it is likely that Peter and Andrew had already been disciples of Jesus in Matthew 4. It is likely this call for them to follow him occurred after the miracle in Cana, the first cleansing of the Temple (if one holds the view there were two cleansings) and...

Oz, I think your comments make a very good point here Oz and I think you need to apply this same thinking to baptism as well. The problem is that many want to isolate verses like John 3:16 or Romans 10:13 as what the requirements are for becoming a Christian. Yet, as you are showing, we need...

Zeke, thank you for your reply... The difference I would have with you on this explanation, zeke, is that I would see faith, repentance and baptism as all in the same category. You seem to indicate that belief and repentance are key responses to accepting God's grace in Christ , but then you...

Zeke, I think you are misunderstanding the position of the church for her first 1500 years of existence. Clearly, all forgiveness comes by the blood of Jesus. However, Jesus' death on the cross didn't automatically save the entire world, correct? I assume you are not a universalist. So how...

Oz, As you know, the Greek language, like English, is not a mystery. If I say, "All of you repent and each one of you should be baptized for the remission of your sins" the switch from plural to singular has no impact on which of these terms holds more significance in their connection with...

Oz, Thank you for your reply. Yes, I believe this, and other verses clearly teach that baptism is the moment in which God's grace of forgiveness, cleansing, receiving the Holy Spirit, etc. takes place. I will try to address the Greek as I see in in response to what you have written: First...

ewq, This argument about Job's friends as it relates to inspiration makes no sense and has nothing to do with how the reliability and inspiration of the Bible is understood. Yes, lets drop this and go back to the OP, if anyone still wants to discuss it. Otherwise I will just lock this topic.

ewq, You may agree with my statement about inspiration, but you are not communicating very well if that is the case. My objection was to this statement by you: "there are untrue things found in scripture that doesn't come from God but the imperfect minds of humans." This contradicts the idea...

ewq, I do not think you understand the meaning of inerrancy. Inerrancy is based on the concept of inspiration, which means that the Scriptures are inspired, guided, or breathed by God. Thus, it is not true to say that "there are untrue things found in scripture that doesn't come from God but...

THis has become quite removed from the OP. I suggest we get back to talking about the Creed and baptism or just close the thread. Debating the salvation of past theologians is fruitless and not the point of this discussion.

I agree that Calvin was a flawed man and I do not agree with some of his teaching. I also think his actions in the death of his adversary are loathsome. However, David was also a murderer, as was Paul (at least an accomplice to murder). We shouldn't be so quick to throw away a person's life...

I agree Joyful. But that is different than what you were saying earlier. This was all brought about by you saying that reading Calvin is a waste of time. Are you saying he was a false teacher?

I am trying to follow what you are saying here without much success. Are you saying that baptisms in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit are water baptism, but baptism in the name of Jesus as we see in Acts 2 is a spirit baptism and not a water baptism? This approach seems convoluted to...

I didn't miss it. I was just focusing on Morris' view and its clear he did not agree with those who felt this baptism was unrelated to or not an inference of water baptism as you indicated. Morris clearly thinks this passage is connected to water baptism but the emphasis is on the spiritual...

Oz, I actually have Morris' commentary on Romans and I read through the passage. If you look at the footnote where he questions the liturgical associations, he says (at the bottom of the footnote): So, Morris does not think it is reasonable to claim this verse is not a reference to water...

StanJ, The question the people were asking was, "What shall we do?" I don't think it makes sense that Peter would point to something they had no control over. The text does not say, "Repent and you will be baptized and receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit." It says "Repent and be...

Oz, I think you are missing my point. Allow me to answer by asking you a couple questions. Show me where water is mentioned in Matthew 28. Show me where water is mentioned in Acts 2:38. Show me where water is mentioned in Acts 16:33. Show me where water is mentioned in Acts 22:16. Show me...

So you think Paul is not pointing to a specific event, but is talking about some nebulous metaphysical experience as proof that they have been buried and raised? I don't think any first century reader would read Romans 6 and conclude that Paul is speaking about anything but water baptism...