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If I'm so stupid, you tell me exactly how verse 28 changes the time, order or grammer of the issue. I notice you don't mention it above. Could it be that it doesn't? And it's all well and good to say that the RED sets a condition for when Christ delievers the Kingdom, but you seem to...

Well, I either missed it or didn't understand you. So, let me get this straight. You disagree that war, famine, disease, natural disasters, and persecution have been happening ever since Christ left? You disagree that Christ warned about them, and you disagree that the first 6 seals also speak...

Well I don't know...did you actually read my other posts and then consider 1 Cor 15? Honestly, the more I read it, the more I can't believe others miss the obviousness of it. Okay...sure. So...what we have here is proof that a time period will happen where certain things will take place, yeah...

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? But, point of fact is, verse 28 only brings us full circle and doesn't weigh into the timing or the chronology of things. Verse 28 simply affirms the order of the Trinity...that once Christ has FINISHED his work...that work being delivering the kingdom...

Again, I am unsure if you are saying that you think I am saying that this WOULD be God's wrath, and you disagree with that. Or, you are agreeing with me that "No", this would not be considered "God's wrath". Well, I too must disagree with you. In the following verses, we see three things...

I like talking about the Millennium; I most definitely see it one way and like discussing how I see the bible painting it, but when push comes to shove I don't think I'd cry if I was wrong. I mean...honestly...what do I care if I'm wrong! Oh no! Christ is here on earth and stuff is way...

Except, knowing what we do about the timing. That both death and Satan must be defeated BY and AT Christ's return, we must then look at this GWT passage and see the (rather clear) parallels with Matt 25 and Christ sitting on his "glorious throne" to judge the nations "when he comes in his...

First, I agree that there is no such thing as soul sleep...I was not suggesting that there was. My point, which is where I suspect it differs from you, considering what you have said above, is that the unjust do, in fact, have an 'eternal' destiny. And these will go away into eternal...

I'm not exactly sure what I HAVE been saying it getting through. How about this: when something horrible happens now; say, a terrible earthquake, and lots of people die...including Christians...how do we, the Church, see that tragedy? Do we point to it and say "behold! The wrath of God on the...

A few questions. If the "Kingdom" starts once Christ comes back, what is the "Kingdom" that Christ 'delivers to his Father', "at his coming" (1 Cor 15:23-24)? And...if, at this 'coming', we are given our new, imperishable bodies (1 Cor 15:54)...which is the resurrection of the dead also (and as...

See, I'd actually disagree with you there. MOST of Revelation references back to the OT in some way. And "spiritualizing" is not just dismissing stuff as "things are gonna get worse"...although we all know they are going to, and that's simply because Christ told us they would. Let me use the...

I can certainly see how you would view it as 'represented differently' and I suppose really it does come down to different interpretations at this point...which I am okay with. I think my main goal in arguing for Amillennialism, in large part, is to fight against many of those who say that it's...

Not sure of your point. Well, there are the obvious one in all the letters to the Churches, but I'll skip those. Revelation 8:4 - and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.Revelation 11:18 - The nations raged, but your wrath came...

So, you'd be Pre-wrath? Mid-trib? (Same thing?) Sometimes assigning labels is tedious and frustrating, but I suppose it's somewhat necessary in conversations like this, so we can know where each other stands in such matters. But, to the topic at hand...I would think, then, if you do believe...

Look...I have absolutely no intention of ticking you off or trying to push you to frustration or what have you. I honestly try and figure out what you are saying, but its like you speak an entirely different language. I mean, you seem shocked at the thought of dancing around the idea...that you...

First, I don't consider what others "plainly and indisputably" state as fact to be just that, I consider what the bible says 'plainly and indisputably' to be fact. [4] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those...

I'm sorry, but aren't you missing that 'defining factor' at the beginning of the passage? [23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. [24] Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule...

I'm fairly certain we've been over this before. I can't say whether I agree with you or not, in regards to the different usages of corruptible/incorruptible and mortal/immortality, but in the final outcome, it doesn't actually change my view. I already believe that when the believers are given...

:rolleyes: Around and around we go! You: "You! You cannot make 1000 years longer than 1000 years! You are bad and non-literal and will cause all of biblical inerrancy to cease to be with your spiritualizing and evilness!" Me: "Then how come you get to make 24 hours into 1000 years?" You: "Because!"

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The...