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No, I was referring to the same people. To put it another way: The only humans that have a chance of a change of nature to the divine immortal nature, are Christians who live before the first resurrection and rapture. No other humans or spirit beings will have that opportunity. The only...

I'd agree with that. I've never referred to the church as the Gentile Church, i've always just said the church or Christians. All of the early Christians were Jews (as was Jesus!). Only those believers who believe before the first resurrection (and rapture) takes place are promised that they...

I'm sorry but I've not been able to spend much/any time in this forum recently. I've missed a couple of days and there have been about 60 replies in that time, so I'm struggling to keep up with the discussion! I thought I had answered your question with my previous reply, i.e. I said, "The...

Yes, that's right, I tried to prove it by showing that the first resurrection had already taken place, so the second group, that lived on earth after the resurrection had taken place, could not have had a part in it. The Book of Revelation describes events unfolding in the future, in roughly...

Jesus also talked about the rapture: Mat 24:39) ... so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Mat 24:40) Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one will be left. Mat 24:41) Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and one will be left. Mat 24:42) Watch...

Don't forget that the rapture of the church has occurred. That will be very convincing to a lot of people, but it will be too late - they will have missed the bus (opportunity)! The time of the Gentiles will have ended at the rapture; then the Jews will believe that Jesus is the Messiah: Luke...

You seem to have missed out a bit from verse 4, the bit that says, "and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand". That identifies them with having lived during the great tribulation, so there are two groups of people being...

God never breaks His promises. He promised that He would restore the nation of Israel, and bring the Jews back to it from all the nations where they were scattered. He kept that promise, with the nation of Israel being established in its homeland in 1948, and with Jews still returning to it...

Revelation 20:4 (WEB): I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on...

They're usually presumed to be Elijah and Moses because of the miracluous things mentioned in verses 5 and 6, which are similar to that performed by them, and also because the two of them appeared together in the transfiguration: 11:5) If anyone desires to harm them, fire proceeds out of their...

I think what is confusing you is that you think that the two witnesses are Christians, and members of the body of Christ. If they are Moses and Elijah, which most people agree that they are, then they are Old Testament prophets, not Christians. Their resurrection comes later and will be as...

Yes, I'd agree with that. It would be helpful if you did specify verse numbers (it's what verse numbers were invented for, to help people more quickly find the parts of the Bible that they are discussing). It's not doing all of the work, just making it easier. For example you referenced Matt...

The word “rapture” is taken from the Latin word “rapio” that is a translation of the Greek word harpazō, used in 1 Thess 4:17, which in most English Bibles is translated to the two words “caught up”. That's not correct. The rapture of the church occurs immediately after the resurrection of the...

What kind of argument/logic is that?! The whole Bible never says that Moses was not God, but that doesn't mean/prove that Moses was God, and neither does the lack of any verse saying that Jesus was not God mean that he was God! On the other hand, there is also a lack of any verse saying that...

I'm surprised none of the Trinitarians have yet put forward this verse: Titus 2:13 (WEB): looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ;

Why all the vitriol? :eek: Please stick to a civilised discussion. The verse after the one you quoted above says, "but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ" (Eph 4:15). Consider Paul's othere words: Gal 1:8) But even though we, or an angel...

Remeber your favourite verse, John 1:1 - Jesus was with God in the beginning, and Jesus did the creating. So in Gen 1:26 when God said, “Let’s make man in our image, after our likeness”, and all the other "God said, “Let ...”", that was God giving instructions to His son, Jesus. Nice and...

Right! God's son was with God in the beginning of God's creation, and God's son (Jesus, the Word) did the creating. Seems quite obvious to me that the "beginning" was referring to the beginning of God's creation.

Hmm, what's that in the left column?

"The definition of begotten means something created something else or someone fathered a child" - from Begotten Meaning | Best 3 Definitions of Begotten. To beget, apart from meaning to be the father of, can mean "To cause to exist or occur; produce" - from Beget Meaning | Best 8 Definitions of...