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1. Oops, you didn't deal with the point I made : this is right after Jesus tells them "bring an unrepentantly sinning brother BEFORE THE CHURCH", so, yes, it has Christians in view. 2. Yeah, Jesus taught His apostles to go disciple the nations, teaching them THIS PARABLE, so it addresses...

So, your view is that the Church was in error for its first few hundred years, so it fought OSAS as a heresy (as part of Gnosticism), but, later, a former Gnostic heretic (Augustine) "restored" the "truth" of OSAS to the Church--not that he Christianized a Gnostic heresy? How does the...

Actually, Christians are in view : 1. This is just after Jesus teaches to bring an unrepentantly sinning brother before the Church. 2. Jesus taught His disciples to teach everything He taught them to the nations ("teaching them to observe all things")--it's for all His disciples to know. 3...

If it couldn't possibly happen, why is Jesus telling us to imagine God doing it? Is this Jesus's pattern--teaching us things that can never happen, telling us to imagine God in ways that are not in keeping with reality (ie, lying about God), and telling His disciples to go teach that lie the...

Apparently it is conditional, but you go in to the verse thinking otherwise, so you reject what is plainly taught by the Lord. 1 Co 10 shows the two (salvation not due to good works, and dying under wrath for sin aftef having been saved) aren't mutually exclusive. We're literally reading a...

This thread is about how the Church dealt with OSAS for the first few hundred years. Obviously, the first few hundred years of Church history isn't found in the Bible, but try your hand at answering Matthew 18, wherein someone is forgiven all their debt, then, after, the forgiveness is...

Yeah, TO HIS PEOPLE/CHILDREN, He will be with them, and I've already demonstrated that that is not a static reality, but people have always been being, and continue to be, added thereto and removed therefrom. That dynamic has never changed. Why don't you want to answer how the unforgiving...

The "promise" of God that God is faithful to perform, according to Jesus, is to rescind His forgiveness if you do not forgive others. That's what the text directs me to believe. Which of us is spitting the bitter truth out?

And he was a former Gnostic!

Believing God's explicit Word that He "forgets righteousness" is not philosophical speculation.

So, bottom line, you have no answer for the fact that the man was forgiven all his sins--how that came about (by faith obviously), or how God, afterward, rescinded His forgiveness. You appear to reject that portion of the Word of God bc it doesn't fit in with your "system". Perhaps that doctrine...

Right, I'm saying the early Church recognized OSAS as foreign to the Gospel, and the only people who held to it were Gnostic heretics. There're countless verses teaching the opposite. Nevertheless, this thread is focused on the fact that OSAS was foreign to the early Church, so they fought...

We know, from Church history, that the Word of God which the Churches lived by compelled them to fight OSAS for its first few hundred years, because it was part and parcel of fighting Gnosticism, because OSAS was not believed in by the early Church, but was foreign to the early Church that...

Your rejection of my view is based on improper hermeneutics--no offense.

The presentation says the early church, for hundreds of years, fought OSAS as a heresy of the Gnostics--until Augustine, a former Gnostic, Christianized it. We disagree that Jesus teaches OSAS (eg, Matthew 18 the parable of the unforgiving servant).

Another one (I just engaged with) : 1 John 2:19 Reading 1 John 2:19 ("They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."), one might conclude, "Oh, if God has...

We disagree about what the Bible says (ie, that if someone falls away they were never saved).

The clause many who believe in OSAS cite that leads to the misunderstanding that those who fall away were never saved ("They went out from us to prove they were never of us, for if they were of us they would have continued with us") seemingly can be answered in the fact that God can forget...

We know that God had previously issued concessions for the hardness of peoples' hearts (eg, Mt 19 "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives 'for any reason' because of the hardness of your hearts"), and, so, Christ was coming and overruling that, preserving the underlying principle (ie, with...

Yes, the root issue is humility, it seems. "You cannot make even one hair white or black. Who do you think you are to say you can 'certify' you will make this or that happen--that trust should be vested in you?"