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pom, According to your logic, we should all get circumcised as God commanded. After all, God does not change. I don't think that is what that Hebrew's verse is teaching.

It's referring specifically to those believers who have been beheaded for Jesus. I don't think they can fall away after they have been killed. So what is the point of all those passages you listed? Yes, they all point to a resurrection. The dead will be raised. We agree that will happen...

ATP, the first resurrection occurs at conversion (Col. 3:1). We are "made alive" at our baptism (Col. 2:11-13). Those who have been "raised with Christ" and are martyred are reigning with Christ currently. John calls this the "first resurrection" in Rev. 20. This is the ONLY place in the NT...

Oz, Thanks for your reply. As I look at the NT, I do not see the gift of tongues or other such gifts occurring primarily because they are expected and promoted. It seems that all who received the gift of tongues had it come upon them quite unexpectantly. Thus, the idea that some churches do...

I think if you look at the whole chapter, it gives the context for the dead rising. In any event, I am not saying these things cannot point to the future and the resurrection. Clearly there are promises in Isaiah and other prophets about the Messiah, deliverance, judgments, etc. Even past...

ATP, the book of Isaiah is not about the end times. Isaiah was prophesying to the Israelites about coming judgment. That judgment came in 605 and 586 BC. It does? “Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are...

Good point, aspen. I have read some books that refer to the need for a "prophetic voice" in the church. I think that's pretty good language. I think we need that hard truth (even if it isn't revealed truth as the prophets were known for). Many who claim to be prophets live quite different...

For me, I think the "appearing" of Jesus is the emphasis that designated these individuals as "Apostles." Paul says, he "appeared" to James and then "Last of all, he appeared to me, as one untimely born..." Key phrases here are "Last of all" and "appeared to me." I agree that Paul is...

Oz, Thanks for your reply. I like Grudem very much and think he is a wonderful scholar. I have read his stuff on prophecy today, but I think he is in error in his definitions of these roles. According to Grudem, the OT Prophets are similar to NT Apostles (which he thinks have ceased)...

Based on a discussion in another thread, I wanted to open a new thread to discuss the concept of the existence of modern day apostles and prophets. In my view, such roles do not exist today. I am not a cessationist, but I do believe gifts have particular functions in the life of the people of...

Looks like this is turning into another rhetoric duel. Im going to jump off the merry-go-round at this point, River.

Well, I know what I read. I'm not interested in turning this discussion in to how mean everyone has been to each other. Its sad, but I guess if you don't want to take my comments as an opportunity for self-reflection, fine. I'm not going to do it for you. So are you suggesting that people...

Oz, Thanks for the book recommendations. I may have to look into that Wright book. It looks interesting. My main reason for pursuing the PhD program here was its emphasis on Greek. To be honest, I wasn't really all that interested in the degree itself. I just enjoy the seminars, reading...

Yeah, that's not right. But I have seen your conversations, River. Your are regularly provoking people and attempting to make others look and feel stupid. If one wanted, they could create their own similar list of snide comments and underhanded jabs that make people feel stupid. Not...

No, but my mom was reasonable and loving. She encouraged me along with discipline and didn't kick me when I was down. Again, a kind word to people you disagree with from time to time isn't asking much. You are comparing apples and oranges here and you know it. Different assessments about the...

No, but again, my point is that both sides do this. Professional intellectuals like to discount the Bible on account of their perceptions on evolution, etc...even through they have little or no knowledge of the Bible. My point is this: I dont often find Christians in our universities saying...

Aspen, That is simply not true and not in accordance with anything the church has believed throughout history. Just because something is "true" does not mean it is inspired. Biblical inspiration indicates that someone was under the direct guidance and influence of God to communicate a...

Not really. "Little" knowledge is a pretty ambiguous term. I am not in favor if censoring people or not hearing them out just because someone feels they don't possess the proper credentials. It would be like me saying you don't have the ability to comment on the Scriptures or church history...

I disagree with many of the statements made on here on this issue and several you listed, yes. More importantly, I recognize that there is a lot of gray area on this issue and that everyone should speak to this issue with a great deal of humility and acceptance of others. This is not a hill...

Yes, I do not doubt your research degree is a real challenge. Sounds like you have invested a lot in it! I hope your defense statements go well. I completed my DMin about a year ago and am now enrolled in a PhD program. I too would have preferred the PhD, but at the time, there were no PhD...