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Whew, thanks for the lenghy response. I know I will not be able to address everything, but let me question you on a few issues and make some other points. The focus was always the "blood" not the actual death of the animal. Punishment and wrath being poured out is read into the text, the text...

True. Many Christians also view their local church building as the same thing as the Temple. However, my point is that no "Christian" scholars are arguing for the Sabbath being on Sunday. Either way, the issue is really irrelevant. Unless you can refute my earlier points on the NT teaching...

ScottAU, I apologize. I had you figured to be in some sort of Wesleyan background. I appreciate the dialogue, but it would be of great benefit to me if you dealt with only one or two verses at a time. My experience in these discussions generally is that someone will throw out 10 verses to...

Hey dragonfly, I am not of a holiness tradition (Methodist, Nazarene, Wesleyan, etc.) but I am very familiar with Wesley's writings and teachings. Yes, I do believe Wesley thought that some people's conversion experience could be so powerful that they could immediately walk in perfect love...

I think you are splitting hairs here that no one is contending. "A righteousness from God has been made known" which comes by faith. Of course righteousness is of faith, but that faith is in something specific that happened on the cross. Surely you agree that our faith is in the work of...

I think you need to get the idea out of your mind that penal substitution necessitates a one and done transaction. Wesley taught nothing of the sort. We must continually be responsive to the grace of God, but the relationship that restores and reconciles us (turns us from enemies to friends...

ScottAU - I don't know if you saw my post above, but Wesley was a firm defendant of Penal Substitution. So I just don't think your argument holds water that this is a Reformed view based on static legal transactions. Also, pointing to a parable is not very convincing. There are all kinds of...

This has NOTHING to do with a calendar. Mark says Jesus was crucified on the day of Preparation, the day before the Sabbath. I don't care what calendar you use or why that even matters at all. Mark says, "It was the day before the Sabbath." This has nothing to do with dates or years. It has...

Justin, I could not disagree more. The religious leaders did not miss Jesus because they believed in interpretation over experience. The miracles of Jesus fulfilled Scripture and were not meant to override Scripture so people could put their faith in their experiences. There are false...

I don't see anyone arguing that the Sabbath is not Saturday. The early church also understood this. The reason worship was switched to Sunday had nothing to do with a confusion about what the Sabbath means or what day it was observed. So I don't see your point here. I don't know of any NT...

“The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently...

Trumpeter, You are in great error in assigning the Ten Commandments as a special part of the Law. There was no distinction (and still there is no distinction) among Jews concerning the law (nomos) as being particular to the Ten Commandments. The law referred to all the commandments and...

Jiggy, I know you are directing your comments to Rach, but it is true that all die. While God did not exact wrath on all people immediately for their sin, Paul explains that it is the death of Christ that explains this forbearance. Romans 3:25-26. The Greek word here is hilistarion which...

Trumpeter, Yes, the Sabbath is a Saturday, the last day of the week. Yet church history shows that after Christ's resurrection, the Christians began to meet and worship on the first day of the week in commemoration of the resurrection and the completed work of Christ. However, I find your...

ScottAU - You said, It appears to me that you are arguing from an Arminian and holiness stance such as that which was taught by Wesley (i.e. Christian perfection). While I have no problem with this view, I think you are confusing justification and sanctification. John Wesley, the one who...