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    My personal eclectic view

    Where in Romans 11 are only national Jews saved?
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    WHAT????? CHURCH FATHERS WERE PRETRIB ???

    Yeah. Too bad the gnostics haven't figured that out yet. :laughing:
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    WHAT????? CHURCH FATHERS WERE PRETRIB ???

    Hint: It's not the second one. :laughing:
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    WHAT????? CHURCH FATHERS WERE PRETRIB ???

    Of course. Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into his body, and cast out all them that sold and bought in his body, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, It's perfectly Scriptural. :laughing:
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    WHAT????? CHURCH FATHERS WERE PRETRIB ???

    Farce A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery Farse A vernacular paraphrase inserted into Latin liturgy. Which one do you think he meant? :laughing:
  6. C

    My personal eclectic view

    In contrast to your Scriptural explanation, he is unable to explain the absurdity of dispensationalism's decapitated, orphaned, undetermined 70th week, or present any evidence from historical orthodox Christianity denying Christ's perfect complete fulfillment of Daniel 9:24. Just two of the...
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    My personal eclectic view

    Modernist revisionist Scofield dispensational futurized fantasy and fallacy.
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    My personal eclectic view

    Matthew 24 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except...
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    My personal eclectic view

    If you're meaning that the ones in Revelation will include the Judaean Christians, that is certainly true.
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    My personal eclectic view

    "Great tribulation" in Matthew 24:21 is clearly associated with 70 AD, as it states "then", referring to the time associated with the warnings in the preceding verses, which were recognized and heeded by the Judaean Christians in their flight preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. That was...
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    My personal eclectic view

    Thanks bro; I missed that. I was going by Matthew 24, which specifies tribulation. Yes, 70 AD was tribulation resulting from God's wrath.
  12. C

    My personal eclectic view

    The tribulation in Matthew is not the tribulation in Revelation.
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    My personal eclectic view

    Dispensationalism routinely confuses the two terms. We shouldn't repeat its error. Jesus in Matthew 24:21 explicitly identifies the destruction of Jerusalem as tribulation.
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    My personal eclectic view

    He meant "of".
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    My personal eclectic view

    I don't see any NT Scripture where the words "wrath" and "tribulation" appear in close proximity to one another. Do you? It's always exclusively one or the other.
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    My personal eclectic view

    I agree. But Jesus identified it as tribulation rather than wrath, local rather than global in scope.
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    My personal eclectic view

    70 AD was "a" great tribulation upon apostate Israel. I see nowhere that it is identified as the "wrath of God" upon apostate Israel.
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    My personal eclectic view

    Marty, "great tribulation" in Matthew 24:21 is clearly associated with 70 AD, as it states "then", referring to the time associated with the warnings in the preceding verses, which were recognized and heeded by the Judaean Christians in their flight preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. And...
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    My personal eclectic view

    Daniel 9:24 declares that "Seventy weeks are determined..." That's all seventy. But your 70th week is decapitated, orphaned, and undetermined. It thus violates Daniel 9:24 and denies the perfect completed accomplishments of Christ at Calvary. It attempts to contort Christ into antichrist...
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    Daniel 7 - 10 horns....

    Galatians 4 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. The Church, comprised of redeemed Jews and Gentiles.