“...a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, in order that it would torment me...”

[VictoryinJesus]

Realize this passage has already been discussed many times but I have a question. Not about what was the thorn ...but concerning the “in order it would torment me so I would not exalt myself”

2 Corinthians 12:7-9: even because of the extraordinary degree of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, in order that it would torment me so I would not exalt myself. Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me. And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, because the power is perfected in weakness.”

in order that it would torment me so I would not exalt myself.
Then 1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love cast out fear: because fear has torment. he that fears is not made perfect in love.

confused at how God gave Paul a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment him...yet perfect love cast out fear because fear is torment. And even Paul’s urging of
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

why would Paul be tormented and God refuse for that torment to depart, though he asked three times, when fear is torment? I’m sorry?...not sure why this is confusing me so much, maybe because I have fear...

 

[Base12]

...fear is torment?

Is fear really torment? I haven't studied that out.

I just assumed that the torment was guilt and shame for Paul's past life.

In other words, Paul could never brag and boast about how awesome he was because he had a lot of 'skeletons in his closet', thus he was a 'tormented Soul'. I would think that Paul felt really bad about what he had done.

In addition, Paul may have had critics that followed him around letting everyone know about his past in order to make Paul look bad in front of those he was teaching. I'm thinking a heckler in an audience like we often see in politics.

Or something like this...

Numbers 33:55
"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell"

So instead of an internal thorn, it was an external thorn.

But again, I haven't done much research on this topic.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Is fear really torment? I haven't studied that out.

can see what you mean of Paul and possibly his torment. Yes, he had done some things that was fully seen Stephen being one. John 3:20-21 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

“Is fear really torment” from my perspective and not saying it is right but would say, yes fear is torment. Not talking about the fear of the Lord to depart from evil but the fear of losing this life or an position in it. Our place is with Him and not found here. The Pharisees would be an example in did they fear God or hate Christ because of what He stood for meaning loss of their ideas and positions in His kingdom(those high seats they had taken). How they gnashed their teeth on His teachings that would tear down all they had built of and on themselves as the foundation. Have seen this fear of losing in this life and have seen people become downright enflamed with torment and gnashing with hatred at losing this life or their positions. To be honest, over the past couple of weeks I’ve become bitter and angry with God and offended that, it is not going to be how I want it. Even fearful at letting go of what exactly? In favor of receiving Him instead. Is fear torment? On the boat in the storm when Christ stood and rebuked the storm, the disciples cried to Him “do You not care that we perish”. They being tossed by a great tempest. Are we offended the outward man perishes, while the inward man is renewed daily? Is fear torment ...maybe so if you are aware if the fire consumes and there is nothing which remains through the fire, then it perishes. What is left which remains through the fire? Numbers 11:1-3 And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord : and the Lord heard it ; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the Lord burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp. [2] And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the Lord, the fire was quenched. [3] And he called the name of the place Taberah: because the fire of the Lord burnt among them.

yet we are told to not “quench” that fire, His Spirit but to let it burn and consume in Hebrews 12:28-29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

do like your Numbers 33:55 quote. Thank you.

 

[Enoch111]

in order that it would torment* me so I would not exalt myself.

The translation you have used is misleading, and that is why you are having a problem. That word is NOT "torment" but "buffet".

Strong's Concordance
kolaphizó: to strike with the fist
Original Word: κολαφίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kolaphizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kol-af-id'-zo)
Definition: to strike with the fist
Usage: I strike with the fist, buffet; hence: I mistreat violently.

In other words it resembled a blow with the fist (as in boxing). And we know why God gave Paul this PHYSICAL DISABILITY. It was in order to keep him humble.

 

[marks]

Realize this passage has already been discussed many times but I have a question. Not about what was the thorn ...but concerning the “in order it would torment me so I would not exalt myself”

2 Corinthians 12:7-9: even because of the extraordinary degree of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, in order that it would torment me so I would not exalt myself. Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me. And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, because the power is perfected in weakness.”

in order that it would torment me so I would not exalt myself.
Then 1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love cast out fear: because fear has torment. he that fears is not made perfect in love.

confused at how God gave Paul a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment him...yet perfect love cast out fear because fear is torment. And even Paul’s urging of
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

why would Paul be tormented and God refuse for that torment to depart, though he asked three times, when fear is torment? I’m sorry?...not sure why this is confusing me so much, maybe because I have fear...

I think @Enoch111 has the answer to this word, buffet, or beat. We can take a beating without it being torment, as we are secure in Jesus.

God told the Israelites that if they did not get rid of all the inhabitants of the land that they would be thorns in their sides. So my thinking is that this messenger of Satan was or were the Jews who followed Paul around persecuting him.

Edit to add . . . I see that @Base12 also posted about that.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think @Enoch111 has the answer to this word, buffet, or beat. We can take a beating without it being torment, as we are secure in Jesus.

God told the Israelites that if they did not get rid of all the inhabitants of the land that they would be thorns in their sides. So my thinking is that this messenger of Satan was or were the Jews who followed Paul around persecuting him.

Much love!

Yes, see what you both are saying. So you don’t think the “torment” there, of blow of the fist ...has anything to do with the torment or fear perfect love cast out?

2 Corinthians 12:7 Lexicon: Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-- to keep me from exalting myself!

Greek Concordance: κολαφίζῃ (kolaphizē) -- 1 Occurrence

 

[101G]

why would Paul be tormented and God refuse for that torment to depart, though he asked three times, when fear is torment? I’m sorry?...not sure why this is confusing me so much, maybe because I have fear...

Not tormented, but just as the scriptures states, " to buffet me", meaning to keep him in check, listen, "lest I should be exalted above measure".
Let's put it in layman's terms, "TO GET THE BIG HEAD AND THINK YOU KNEW IT ALL" and be in contention with others, thinking that you're the finial authority, as here on the forum think that way. now lets see it in scripture, 1 Corinthians 4:6 "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another". NO ONE MAN OR WOMAN KNOWS IT ALLL, yes I put an extra "L" in all to emphasis it. just as the apostle Paul said, "lest I should be exalted above measure"
the word "Maesure" here is the greek word, G5229 ὑπεραίρομαι huperairomai (hï-per-ai'-ro-mai) v.
1. to raise oneself over.
2. (figuratively) to become haughty.
[middle voice from G5228 and G142]
KJV: exalt self, be exalted above measure

Haughty means, arrogantly superior and disdainful.

understand NOW?.

hope this helped.

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

Yes, see what you both are saying. So you don’t think the “torment” there, of blow of the fist ...has anything to do with the torment or fear perfect love cast out?

2 Corinthians 12:7 Lexicon: Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-- to keep me from exalting myself!

Greek Concordance: κολαφίζῃ (kolaphizē) -- 1 Occurrence

No, I think it's more to do with the tribulations that produce patience and experience and hope, but by battering us in the process.

We can be secure in God's love while unbelievers continue to harass us.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Not tormented, but just as the scriptures states, " to buffet me", meaning to keep him in check, listen, "lest I should be exalted above measure".
Let's put it in layman's terms, "TO GET THE BIG HEAD AND THINK YOU KNEW IT ALL" and be in contention with others, thinking that you're the finial authority, as here on the forum think that way. now lets see it in scripture, 1 Corinthians 4:6 "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another". NO ONE MAN OR WOMAN KNOWS IT ALLL, yes I put an extra "L" in all to emphasis it. just as the apostle Paul said, "lest I should be exalted above measure"
the word "Maesure" here is the greek word, G5229 ὑπεραίρομαι huperairomai (hï-per-ai'-ro-mai) v.
1. to raise oneself over.
2. (figuratively) to become haughty.
[middle voice from G5228 and G142]
KJV: exalt self, be exalted above measure

Haughty means, arrogantly superior and disdainful.

understand NOW?.

hope this helped.

PICJAG.

yes, understand. Yet in looking up the “strike with the fist” and the word in question of messenger to torment or to strike, these verses were connected to that striking with the fist:

Strong's Concordance
kolaphizó: to strike with the fist
Original Word: κολαφίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kolaphizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kol-af-id'-zo)
Definition: to strike with the fist
Usage: I strike with the fist, buffet; hence: I mistreat violently.

Matthew 26:66-68 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death. [67] Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, [68] Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?

Mark 14:64-65 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death. [65] And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands.

1 Corinthians 4:11-12 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; [12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

1 Peter 2:20-23 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. [21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: [23] Who, when he was reviled(struck with the fist?), reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

So still confused how then 1 John 4:18-20 does not fit Well with the above verses of the example He left “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. [19] We love him, because he first loved us. [20] If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?” And connects to 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [10] Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

does make sense now why a messenger to buffet was given in “this is acceptable unto God.” “For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: [23] Who, when he was reviled(struck with the fist?), reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No, I think it's more to do with the tribulations that produce patience and experience and hope, but by battering us in the process.

We can be secure in God's love while unbelievers continue to harass us.

Much love!

so that is the question I guess I’m really asking. Paul asked three times for this “thorn in the flesh” to depart from him. And God’s response was it a no, or instead “perfect love cast out fear” in “My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [10] Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”

Thinking of Romans 8:18-19 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Point is, for days being bitter, weeks even depressed, and getting caught up on that sent “to buffet” or “to torment” (get you are saying torment is not the appropriate translation) but it can feel like it, yeah as even Christ cried out while being buffeted Mark 15:33-36 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. [34] And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [35] And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias. [36] And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down. Mark 15:33-36.

that couldn’t be considered “torment” ? Why lighten that suffering by preferring instead to strike with the fist or to suffer a blow? Still doesn’t make it any less painful(imo) in the different preferred translations of it.

 

[Base12]

This thread has blessed me.

I never thought to look up 'Torments' in this verse...

Luke 16:23
"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom"

Check it out...

Strong's 931: Basanos
Definition: A touchstone (a dark stone used in testing metals), examination by torture, torture

Strong's Greek: 931. βάσανος (basanos) -- a touchstone (a dark stone used in testing metals), hence examination by torture, torture

It's like the opposite of the White Stone...

Revelation 2:17
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it"

Fascinating!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

Realize this passage has already been discussed many times but I have a question. Not about what was the thorn ...but concerning the “in order it would torment me so I would not exalt myself”

2 Corinthians 12:7-9: even because of the extraordinary degree of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, in order that it would torment me so I would not exalt myself. Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me. And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, because the power is perfected in weakness.”

in order that it would torment me so I would not exalt myself.
Then 1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love cast out fear: because fear has torment. he that fears is not made perfect in love.

confused at how God gave Paul a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment him...yet perfect love cast out fear because fear is torment. And even Paul’s urging of
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

why would Paul be tormented and God refuse for that torment to depart, though he asked three times, when fear is torment? I’m sorry?...not sure why this is confusing me so much, maybe because I have fear...

God is just showing that paul would not be tempted above is measure, 1 Corinth 10:13 and that paul could handle it with the strength that God has already given him, God wants us 2 be overcomers that's why he lets these things happen 2 us 1 peter 4:12, eccl 3:12

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: its 2 test our faith, it hasn't anything 2 do wiv love!! dats a fruit of the spirit, but faith comes from trusting in God!!

 

[Joseph77]

God's Perfect Love eliminates fear of judgment (punishment).

Paul was not being punished, and Paul knew all about Judgment as Jesus revealed to him.

Paul did not fear the fiery trials, the tests, the physical pain, the imprisonments or beatings - HE REJOICED IN THEM, as we are told to , if we have the attitude of Jesus Christ.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is interesting that in the context, Paul had just finished showing the persecution, opposition, death threats, stoning, prison, and hate poured out at him because of the preaching of the gospel. Then straight after he talks of the thorn in his flesh, which he asks the Lord to remove from him. So it is clear from the context that it is the continual suffering he went through as the result of his preaching the gospel, rather than some sin or sickness in him as some make out. But these ones take the one verse out of the rest of the chapter than explains exactly what the thorn in his flesh actually is. The torment is not something in himself, but what is inflicted on him by those opposed to the gospel. That is the price has has to pay for walking in God's calling for his life.

The Lord only response was "My grace is sufficient for you". No more.

So these are the blessings for all of us called to live the Christian life and to preach the gospel: persecution, poverty, physical assault, imprisonment, loss of possessions, and even death. These are the blessings that God promises us, and not the comfortable life, wealth, admiration from people, honours, that a lovey dovey wishy washy comfortable image of God that many have (which is idolatry).

 

[Joseph77]

But these ones take the one verse out of the rest of the chapter than explains exactly what the thorn in his flesh actually is.

Which verse are you referring to? (the text/ with context if any)

 

[Paul Christensen]

Which verse are you referring to? (the text/ with context if any)

22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?

30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity."(2 Corinthians 11:22-30)

"And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong" (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

As you will see, verse 10 of the second passage links with the sufferings described in the first passage. These sufferings, which is the thorn in the flesh, are to keep Paul from exalting himself because of the revelation that He had received from the Lord.

 

[DoveSpirit05]

It is interesting that in the context, Paul had just finished showing the persecution, opposition, death threats, stoning, prison, and hate poured out at him because of the preaching of the gospel. Then straight after he talks of the thorn in his flesh, which he asks the Lord to remove from him. So it is clear from the context that it is the continual suffering he went through as the result of his preaching the gospel, rather than some sin or sickness in him as some make out. But these ones take the one verse out of the rest of the chapter than explains exactly what the thorn in his flesh actually is. The torment is not something in himself, but what is inflicted on him by those opposed to the gospel. That is the price has has to pay for walking in God's calling for his life.

The Lord only response was "My grace is sufficient for you". No more.

So these are the blessings for all of us called to live the Christian life and to preach the gospel: persecution, poverty, physical assault, imprisonment, loss of possessions, and even death. These are the blessings that God promises us, and not the comfortable life, wealth, admiration from people, honours, that a lovey dovey wishy washy comfortable image of God that many have (which is idolatry).

I agree on this one!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?

30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity."(2 Corinthians 11:22-30)

"And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong" (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

As you will see, verse 10 of the second passage links with the sufferings described in the first passage. These sufferings, which is the thorn in the flesh, are to keep Paul from exalting himself because of the revelation that He had received from the Lord.

I agree on this one 2!!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is interesting that in the context, Paul had just finished showing the persecution, opposition, death threats, stoning, prison, and hate poured out at him because of the preaching of the gospel. Then straight after he talks of the thorn in his flesh, which he asks the Lord to remove from him. So it is clear from the context that it is the continual suffering he went through as the result of his preaching the gospel, rather than some sin or sickness in him as some make out. But these ones take the one verse out of the rest of the chapter than explains exactly what the thorn in his flesh actually is. The torment is not something in himself, but what is inflicted on him by those opposed to the gospel. That is the price has has to pay for walking in God's calling for his life.

The Lord only response was "My grace is sufficient for you". No more.

So these are the blessings for all of us called to live the Christian life and to preach the gospel: persecution, poverty, physical assault, imprisonment, loss of possessions, and even death. These are the blessings that God promises us, and not the comfortable life, wealth, admiration from people, honours, that a lovey dovey wishy washy comfortable image of God that many have (which is idolatry).

Your post makes me consider the crucifix and how “thorn” is rendered “a stake” being more than a splinter...but lodged in or to pierce through the flesh rendering it weak. Paul said he bears those marks in Galatians 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

How Paul pled for the stake to be removed but rather instead God told Paul his sufficiency was found in God and in the flesh. Curious how many times Jesus asked for the cup to pass? Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

And how similar “My strength is made perfect in weakness” is to 2 Corinthians 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

 

[oldhermit]

Let us open up the context of 2 Corinthians 11 and 12.

The context is Paul's defense of his apostleship. If one is able to boast according to the standard of the flesh, then he has more reason to boast than anyone else and he begins to compile a list of reasons to prove why this is true, 11:16-28. Beginning in verse 22, he says, "Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I." These are all genealogical factors that he has in common with all other Jews. Then in verse 23, he begins to set forth a list of comparisons in which he is proven to excel above them all. "Are they servants of Christ? (I speak as if insane) I MORE SO; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death."

24. “Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.”
25. “Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.”
26. “I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;
27. “I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.”
28. “Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. From 11:29 through 12:8 he stresses the fact that these are all things that Paul regards as weaknesses of the flesh. These are things that are hard to endure and that he had the right to boast in the fact that he has suffered in the flesh more than all of them. In 12:6 he says that he does not wish to boast in these things, "... but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me."

In verse 7, he gives the paramount reason for his capacity for boasting which was "the surpassing greatness of the revelations." To keep him from boasting and exalting himself in this he was given a "thorn in the flesh." The "thorn" represents something that is external to the flesh but that is intrusive to the flesh. In spite of his petition from God to remove it, God says "My grace is sufficient for you." It is not through Paul's own power that he is able to endure these suffering that have been imposed upon his flesh (not to mention the psychological stress that accompanies these types of experiences), it was the grace of God that enabled him to endure them and to continue to preach in spite of them. The connecting statement that links all of this to gather is in verse 10 when he says, "THEREFORE." Whatever he says next is rooted in everything he has said up to this point and he connects it to the thorn that was given him. "Therefore, I am well content with weaknesses, insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ's sake. Why? Because "when I am weak THEN I am strong." The thorn made him weak. The grace made him strong. NOW, he is able to rejoice in his sufferings - in his thorn.

So, because of the "the surpassing greatness of the revelations," Paul was allowed to suffer all of these hardships - thorn in the flesh - in order to keep him from exalting himself. One is not so likely to be self-exalting when he is having the hide stripped from his back with a scourge or having to go hungry or floating around in the sea or having his bones broken from being beaten with rods or lying in a pit left for dead after having been stoned. God allowed these things so that Paul would learn humility in spite of the exalted status that God had granted him. Remember what God told Ananias in Acts 9:16 "I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."

I know this is a very brief exegesis of this text and I certainly do not claim it to be infallible. It is possible that I have missed it but, it seems to me that Paul has been very clear in explaining the nature of the thorn that he had been given. If anyone has a better exegesis of this text than this, I am certainly open to correction.

His problem with his eyesight has been a favored speculation even among many commentators. We do know from Gal. 6:11 that Paul seems to have had some type of deficiency with his eyes but the nature of what the thorn was seems very clearly defined in the context of 2 Cor. 12. Paul uses three different descriptive terms all of which refer to the same thing. He calls it a 'thorn in the flesh', a 'messenger from Satan', and 'my weaknesses'. These weaknesses are not of a singular nature. They are described as insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties all of which are in the plural. I do not doubt that his seeming deficiency with his eyes would certainly fall within this menagerie of weaknesses. The 'thorn in the flesh' is simply a descriptive term which he employed to describe a host of things he was called to endure for the cause of Christ. Their purpose was to keep him humble in the midst of his exalted position. It is hard to be proud and self-exalting when someone is beating the hide off of your back with a scourge or breaking your bones with rods or stoning you. These types of experiences are by their very nature, humbling