“Actively Passive”

[Netchaplain]

Before the Cross, it was all about man in establishing salvation, but after the Cross it’s all about glorifying God and His Grace, which is all entailing because is includes atonement for all the sin of the believer.

His Grace is most depicted in knowing and remembering that the believer is always fully holy, for holiness is a state of being in our union with Him, but it's in our fellowship with Him that we "work out your own salvation" (Phil 2:12) or develop it to the point of it being visually evident, not “hidden under a bushel”; "Be ye holy." To me this means 'ye be holy or ye are holy' and this is because we couldn't be anything else in His Grace and thus, it's now a matter of "working it out," like solving a math equation which is already completed.

We aren't holy by anything we can do (other than receiving Christ) and Christ's holiness does not admit in degrees--we're holy and saved as one can be and the Spirit is working it out through us to be seen; not to obtain anything but to show what we have (union), as everything is already accomplished ("it is finished"). I believe we are passive in being holy, because it is vicariously imputed, not imparted; but active in living it out, so we're not holy because of what we do, but what we do is because we're holy.

"But if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom 8:13). This is one passage I believe describes activity on our part in our words and deeds, as we yield or present our "new nature" (man) to God (Spirit); "but yield (present) yourselves (new self not old self) unto God" (Rom 6:13). The phrase "ye shall live" has the appearance of conditional legalism but to me it's depicting a forgoing situation, meaning that since you, through the Spirit, do mortify the deeds, you will live. This is a place in which only a Christian can be, as we increasingly learn to "put off" the excessive carnality.

As we continue to present, He continues to move or direct us (actively-passive) in our doing, which on our part is what we think, but I believe more so as to what we say and do. As you probably know, the believer doesn't produce the fruit--but "bears it" (John 15:8), as only the Vine produces and the "branch" bears (shows) it.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Before the Cross, it was all about man in establishing salvation, but after the Cross it’s all about glorifying God and His Grace, which is all entailing because is includes atonement for all the sin of the believer.

His Grace is most depicted in knowing and remembering that the believer is always fully holy, for holiness is a state of being in our union with Him, but it's in our fellowship with Him that we "work out your own salvation" (Phil 2:12) or develop it to the point of it being visually evident, not “hidden under a bushel”; "Be ye holy." To me this means 'ye be holy or ye are holy' and this is because we couldn't be anything else in His Grace and thus, it's now a matter of "working it out," like solving a math equation which is already completed.

We aren't holy by anything we can do (other than receiving Christ) and Christ's holiness does not admit in degrees--we're holy and saved as one can be and the Spirit is working it out through us to be seen; not to obtain anything but to show what we have (union), as everything is already accomplished ("it is finished"). I believe we are passive in being holy, because it is vicariously imputed, not imparted; but active in living it out, so we're not holy because of what we do, but what we do is because we're holy.

"But if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom 8:13). This is one passage I believe describes activity on our part in our words and deeds, as we yield or present our "new nature" (man) to God (Spirit); "but yield (present) yourselves (new self not old self) unto God" (Rom 6:13). The phrase "ye shall live" has the appearance of conditional legalism but to me it's depicting a forgoing situation, meaning that since you, through the Spirit, do mortify the deeds, you will live. This is a place in which only a Christian can be, as we increasingly learn to "put off" the excessive carnality.

As we continue to present, He continues to move or direct us (actively-passive) in our doing, which on our part is what we think, but I believe more so as to what we say and do. As you probably know, the believer doesn't produce the fruit--but "bears it" (John 15:8), as only the Vine produces and the "branch" bears (shows) it.

Before the Cross, it was all about man in establishing salvation, but after the Cross it’s all about glorifying God and His Grace, which is all entailing because is includes atonement for all the sin of the believer.

His Grace is most depicted in knowing and remembering that the believer is always fully holy, for holiness is a state of being in our union with Him, but it's in our fellowship with Him that we "work out your own salvation" (Phil 2:12) or develop it to the point of it being visually evident, not “hidden under a bushel”; "Be ye holy." To me this means 'ye be holy or ye are holy' and this is because we couldn't be anything else in His Grace and thus, it's now a matter of "working it out," like solving a math equation which is already completed.

We aren't holy by anything we can do (other than receiving Christ) and Christ's holiness does not admit in degrees--we're holy and saved as one can be and the Spirit is working it out through us to be seen; not to obtain anything but to show what we have (union), as everything is already accomplished ("it is finished"). I believe we are passive in being holy, because it is vicariously imputed, not imparted; but active in living it out, so we're not holy because of what we do, but what we do is because we're holy.

"But if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom 8:13). This is one passage I believe describes activity on our part in our words and deeds, as we yield or present our "new nature" (man) to God (Spirit); "but yield (present) yourselves (new self not old self) unto God" (Rom 6:13). The phrase "ye shall live" has the appearance of conditional legalism but to me it's depicting a forgoing situation, meaning that since you, through the Spirit, do mortify the deeds, you will live. This is a place in which only a Christian can be, as we increasingly learn to "put off" the excessive carnality.

As we continue to present, He continues to move or direct us (actively-passive) in our doing, which on our part is what we think, but I believe more so as to what we say and do. As you probably know, the believer doesn't produce the fruit--but "bears it" (John 15:8), as only the Vine produces and the "branch" bears (shows) it.

Brother, your opening paragraph is completely wrong. Grace has always abound and the moral law of God still abounds. Consider Abraham, rahab, Joseph, Shadrach/meshach and abednego and many, many others.

 

[Netchaplain]

Brother, your opening paragraph is completely wrong. Grace has always abound and the moral law of God still abounds. Consider Abraham, rahab, Joseph, Shadrach/meshach and abednego and many, many others.

I understand you and rightly put, but I'm referring to a "perfect" or completed fellowship by Christ--through the Holy Spirit, which was not available until Christ, for "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest (for all, not just priests), while as the first tabernacle was yet standing" (Heb 9:8). The establishment of the Body of Christ is the primary thought in this issue. "The law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God" (Heb 7:19).

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

I understand you and rightly put, but I'm referring to a "perfect" or completed fellowship by Christ--through the Holy Spirit, which was not available until Christ, for "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest (for all, not just priests), while as the first tabernacle was yet standing" (Heb 9:8). The establishment of the Body of Christ is the primary thought in this issue. "The law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God" (Heb 7:19).

I understand you and rightly put, but I'm referring to a "perfect" or completed fellowship by Christ--through the Holy Spirit, which was not available until Christ, for "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest (for all, not just priests), while as the first tabernacle was yet standing" (Heb 9:8). The establishment of the Body of Christ is the primary thought in this issue. "The law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God" (Heb 7:19).

Gotcha. I have these moments when I get tunnel vision and the bigger picture evades me. SHALOM I'll read the whole thing now and reflect on it.

Before the Cross, it was all about man in establishing salvation, but after the Cross it’s all about glorifying God and His Grace, which is all entailing because is includes atonement for all the sin of the believer.

His Grace is most depicted in knowing and remembering that the believer is always fully holy, for holiness is a state of being in our union with Him, but it's in our fellowship with Him that we "work out your own salvation" (Phil 2:12) or develop it to the point of it being visually evident, not “hidden under a bushel”; "Be ye holy." To me this means 'ye be holy or ye are holy' and this is because we couldn't be anything else in His Grace and thus, it's now a matter of "working it out," like solving a math equation which is already completed.

We aren't holy by anything we can do (other than receiving Christ) and Christ's holiness does not admit in degrees--we're holy and saved as one can be and the Spirit is working it out through us to be seen; not to obtain anything but to show what we have (union), as everything is already accomplished ("it is finished"). I believe we are passive in being holy, because it is vicariously imputed, not imparted; but active in living it out, so we're not holy because of what we do, but what we do is because we're holy.

"But if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom 8:13). This is one passage I believe describes activity on our part in our words and deeds, as we yield or present our "new nature" (man) to God (Spirit); "but yield (present) yourselves (new self not old self) unto God" (Rom 6:13). The phrase "ye shall live" has the appearance of conditional legalism but to me it's depicting a forgoing situation, meaning that since you, through the Spirit, do mortify the deeds, you will live. This is a place in which only a Christian can be, as we increasingly learn to "put off" the excessive carnality.

As we continue to present, He continues to move or direct us (actively-passive) in our doing, which on our part is what we think, but I believe more so as to what we say and do. As you probably know, the believer doesn't produce the fruit--but "bears it" (John 15:8), as only the Vine produces and the "branch" bears (shows) it.

Ok, how do you understand "be ye Holy as he is Holy" and in hebrews it states "For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Hebrews 12:10

Whilst the holiness/righteousness of Christ is imputed to us we have yet to have his life work within and without that produces the fruit of righteousness that is God's. After all holiness is separated unto God. So our life and manner through the discipline of God the father brings our soul into submission and obedience to Christ and hence our mind becomes renewed and his holiness flows in and through that renewed mind. No longer transgressing but abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

That's whilst we may stumble we don't practice sin but rather righteousness due to his holy nature working within.