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Featured “Dead to Sin”

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Netchaplain, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    The only way to be free from sin is to become dead to it, “For he that is dead is freed from sin” (Rom 6:7). What is involved being free from sin? Scripture, and the testimony of the believer’s walk, clearly show it doesn’t involve the eradication of sin, nor its source—“the old man,” otherwise known as our sin nature!

    Jesus’ crucifixion was physical, and ours was spiritual! He did not need a spiritual crucifixion because His nature is divine. We did not need a physical crucifixion because Jesus endured that for us (Gal 3:13; 4:5; Tit 2:14). Our being crucified with Him (Gal 2:20) crucified our sin nature (Rom 6:6), which results being “dead to sin” in being permanently nullified from its curse of “condemnation” (Rom 8:1) and its “reign” of “dominion” (Rom 6:12, 14).

    I believe it is the freedom from the sin nature’s dominion that glorifies God the most, because the dominion of the old man lies within its ability to engender to us the desire to “serve sin” (Rom 6:6). Believers sin but no longer after the manner of serving sin, which is to “willfully sin” (Heb 10:26); “For the law (principle; power) of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2).
    NC






    “Dead to Sin”


    The grace of the Father positions us in the Lord Jesus, in whom the old man was crucified “that the body of sin (not the physical body but the sinful nature, which is as a body with its “members” - Col 3:5, 8—NC) might be destroyed, that we should not serve sin” (Rom 6:6); and yet “if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (Jhn 1:8). To preserve these two statements intact and inviolate is the truth. If I am not dead to the old before God in Christ, I am still alive in that which is sinful, and I have no peace; and if I say I have no sin I do not admit that I am that being who needed the Blood of the Lamb.

    In order to be at peace with the Father I must see myself in union with the Lord Jesus out of judgment, and that judged (old man—NC) which exposed me to judgment. To every quickened soul, knowing through grace that the Lord Jesus is the propitiation for their sins, and having peace with the Father in the faith that He hath raised our Lord Jesus from among the dead, the next thing is that I reign by one, Jesus Christ. I am a totally new being, with a new life in righteousness. Thus the side with God is all complete. There is propitiation through the Blood of the Savior, there is righteousness through His resurrection; there is life, the result of the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. And now it only remains to be free from the dominion of sin and to know and reckon that we are dead to it.

    It is not only that I have received through Christ the gift of righteousness by His righteousness, and the justification of life; but the man, as to the race, was crucified in the Cross, in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that we should not serve sin. Thus there is the positive side, and having received through Christ abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness, we reign in life.

    Thus I am assured in a two-fold way; I have received on the one hand everything to fit me for the Father, and on the other hand I have been free form everything in which sin could find a place. I have been crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed. I am in the vigor of a justified life on the one side, and I am freed from the body of sin on the other, for he that is dead is freed from sin; and as thus, dead to the old before the Father through the Cross. The Spirit of God asserts His claim over the members of the as-yet-unredeemed body, so that they have no right to serve sin (the physical body is not sinful but can be used in sinning—NC). I am through grace set in Christ in newness of life, and in the crucifixion of the old man, and hence the one single responsibility now is to live unto the Father.

    “Now, being made free from the reign of sin, you are servants to the Father, you have your fruit unto holiness, resulting in everlasting life” (Rom 6:22). Here there is growth, not because I am dying to sin, but because through the grace of God I am in newness of life; and in Christ I am in One who has died unto sin, and who now lives unto the Father; and therefore, whichever way I look, whether it be the life conferred through the righteousness of One, or the exemption from the body of sin through the crucifixion of the Cross, now living unto the Father, the fruit is holiness, as touching my position in Christ, and on God’s side.

    But besides this and because of this—that is, because I am in this new ascended position, this place of liberty before the Father in the Son—I am led by the Holy Spirit by whom I live, to walk in Him; and as I do so, I do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, though they are still there (members of unrighteousness within the body of sin—NC). If they were not, where would be the virtue of not fulfilling them, or where would be that great manifestation of grace which is exemplified in every devoted and growing saint, even with the same nature in which he dishonored God, he is now empowered by the Spirit in a new life and nature to answer the mind of God?

    I am to “mortify my members which are upon the earth,” but this is not to attain to death (which occurred in rebirth—NC). Then death would be a work here in me and by me, and not done for me; and the rest in my soul which I can only have because that is “dead wherein I was held” (Rom 7:6), would be dependent on my own progress of self-mortification, instead of, as the Scriptures set forth, the fact that I have died with Christ.

    He is my hope; and therefore I am to put to death the members on earth still in existence as to themselves, and as this progresses there is growth. Sanctification does not proceed or arise (manifest—NC) from an improvement in the members, but from a greater subjugation of them in death-like powerlessness; for it is the simple responsibility now that all the members of the flesh should be in a death-state, for we have put off the old man (as we receive desire not to sin—NC), and have put of the new (always receiving desire to holiness—NC), which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him who has created him (it—NC). But this is not to attain to a state of death, but because I have died before God in Christ, that I may practically carry out my true standing in my walk and condition here, while still in the body, so that the state may grow in accordance with the standing. For the conscience will be wounded if the conduct of the individual tallies not with the faith which is in keeping with the calling of God (sinning cannot satisfy the believer as before, for it being contrary to the new nature always results in dissatisfaction; and our continuing to put off the sin nature does not effect our “death-state,” but rather manifests it has already been effected at rebirth—NC).

    The more I enjoy in my spirit the new state, the more do I deny that which would represent me in a character quite opposed to it, and hence there is an avoidance of everything which would minister to the flesh, not because I expect to expel sin from it; but because, being free from it, I would no longer be enslaved by it. I am no debtor to the flesh, and I prove my freedom by not yielding to it, not in expecting its extinction—for then there would cease to be anything to repel or act against—“but I keep my body under and bring it into subjection” ( 1Co 9:27 – “body” here “is not to be understood by the Apostle of his natural body, and of his keeping it under by immoderate watchings, fastings, and labours, or by whipping and scourging, and lying upon the bare ground, and other such practices (like ascetic ritualism—NC); but of the body of sin (Rom 6:6), the corruption of nature, and of that being laid under some restraints (Cross – Ro 6:6—NC); of the mortifying the deeds of the body through the Spirit, of crucifying the affections with the lusts, of putting off the old man with his deeds, as concerning the former conversation, and of making no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof” - John Gill 1697–1771. “The word here (body) means, that Paul made use of all possible means to subdue his corrupt and carnal inclinations; to show that he was not under the dominion of evil passions, but was wholly under the dominion of the Gospel – Albert Barnes 1798–1870).

    Now here comes in the exhortation of 1Peter 4:1, “Arm yourselves … with the same mind (the death of Christ): for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin”—the practical bearing in the body (physical body—NC) the death of Christ, that the life of Jesus may be manifested in the body. There is no clear apprehension of the grace of God unless, on God’s side, I am dead with Christ; and as I see this I “walk in the Spirit” in order to make true in the body here what is true of me by faith in Christ. And as this progresses, there is more control over the old man, and growth develops.

    Nothing can be more marvelous than to see the life of the Lord Jesus manifested in the man here on earth through whom sin came in. That is, that the one through whom sin came in should now through grace, not only be dead to sin in Christ, but by the power of the Holy Spirit should be enabled to set forth the life of the Lord Jesus in that very body where sin entered.


    - J B Stoney (1814-97)
     
  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    @Netchaplain

    The only way to be truly dead to sin is by true repentance from your sin nature. In other words, recognized that there is no way you can stop the desire to sin on your own. Jesus then takes away all your old sins, and gives you His own power to not desire sins of lawlessness. This is why we must be born again of the Spirit. It is then that as you walk in the Spirit you are no longer in your old man or sin nature, but are partaking of the divine nature. Romans 8:1-9; 2 Peter 1.
     
  3. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi and thanks for your input! Amen, we are not in the old man (Rom 8:9) but it is in us (Rom 7:17, 20), and this is what manifests God's glory and power in His Son and Spirit; that believers can live Christian lives in spite of the presence of the sin nature--the old man--from which God teaches the the most within His Word!
     
  4. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    You are quoting Romans 7:17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

    Romans 7 is about those still under the Law BEFORE Christ. They had the Law, but had to try to keep it with their sin nature in tact. But Jesus was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5

    The sin nature was why the Law didn't work to make us righteous. Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

    Many totally believe that Romans 7 is Paul's experience as a Christian! Like Paul tells us we are dead to sin, while he isn't.

    cc: @David Taylor - open your mind and learn!
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    faithfulness and Episkopos like this.
  5. Not me

    Not me Well-Known Member

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    The doctrine of being dead in Christ is the foundation of our salvation in Christ.... Therefore it behooves us as Christians to delve deeply into this truth, for this truth alone has power over the indulgences of the flesh.

    Be blessed as we search for the ground of this truth, which proof will be, walking in newness of life.

    In Christ, Not me
     
  6. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi CL, and appreciate your input! I know there is a difference of interpretation between believers about this subject. Myself, I believe Paul was writing in the present tense of the time of this writing, and that he was referring to his state as one reborn. He repeatedly made statements and described his encounters of only that a Christian would say and have. I see this is the same then as it is for Christians now, that we still think, say and do that which is against our will and desire. To me verse 23 describes one who's doings things unwillingly, which "captive" describes, i.e. "it's no longer I (he with his new mind) who do it but sin (he with his old mind) that dwelleth in me."

    I do't see any sense in thinking that one who is unregenerate would even think of these and many other things shown in this chapter. The only way it could be otherwise is to be sinless and absented of the old man, which I think would be to "deceive ourselves" (1Jhn 1:8). I also rarely see anyone within the Bible commentary community interpret it that Paul is not a believer at the time of his writing this part of Scripture.
    I think it noteworthy to mention that Israel's forgiveness came from faith in the obedience to one command, which was performed by one man for the sin offering. Now, forgiveness comes from obedience to one command and one Man; to have faith in Christ's expiation for our sin nature and its deeds! Then the obedience grows to manifest rebirth.
     
  7. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it seems to be present tense, but was Paul actually claiming to be over 1300 years old? He is not talking about himself, but mankind. Read Romans 7:9. He would have been alive before Moses received the law!
     
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting thing to consider.

    Paul wrote that he was alive with with law, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and he died.

    How does that compare with that death came into the world through Adam? That everyone died because everyone sinned?

    Much love!
     
  9. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    very well put --AMEN :)
     
  10. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    YOUR RIGHT ON TRACK
     
  11. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    the religious police is on patrol lol :eek::oops:
     
    CharismaticLady likes this.
  12. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    might not be a bad idea fir everyone.. we are dead to sin through the spirit as net chaplin pointed out Christ was physical ours is spiritual
     
  13. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Not sure what you mean here, but verse 9, "alive without the law" means "he did not know that he "was dead in trespasses and sins," Ephesians 2:1, a truth he afterwards was acquainted with" (J Gill - Romans 7 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible). The Law showed him his sinful state which made him realize he was dead in sin.
     
  14. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi Ez, and always appreciate your encouragement! God bless!!
     
  15. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi Mark! "When the commandment came" refers to his recent enlightenment of the Spirit's teaching, in that he didn't before realize that the mere informing of the Law to man of God's will incurred accountability.
     
  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That's how I understand it.

    Otherwise, it means that those who were dead in sin, even before the Law was given (see Romans 5:12ff), were considered alive, and then died when the commandment came.

    Paul even addresses the Ephesian believers, Gentiles, who were not given the Law, You, who were dead in trespasses and sins . . .

    Much love!
     
  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    This is why we must be born again of the Spirit. IOW our nature must change. This we cannot do on our own, no matter how much we struggle as the person Paul talks of in Romans 7. But when the Holy Spirit indwells us, our old nature is overshadowed by the divine nature of Christ, and our desires immediately change. When we are resurrected, then our bodies will take on immortality, but that has nothing to do with our nature. We die with whichever nature we lived with, and it remains. Revelation 22:11. Not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord" will enter heaven. Those apathetic to sinning, such as many with their favorite false doctrines of only imputed righteousness, without imparted righteousness, will remain filthy and be burned up in the lake of fire.
     
  18. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Looks good Brother! Want to note that it's referring to the guilty conscience concerning sin reviving because regardless, all were dead in sin, conscience or not.
     
  19. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    No, it means what scripture says "without the law" means. Sin was not imputed to man until after the law was given on Mount Sinai to the Jews. Only with the Law was there a knowledge of sin, so your saying he did not know doesn't matter. The punishment of the law still applied, thus death. "I died." Paul was born under the law.
     
  20. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    This is a good passage applicable to this subject (Rom 5:13), and what else can one see it consodering the way it reads; but the sense of it does not say there was no law, just an implication that if there were no law. But there has always been law of God known to man, shown in the following verse of 14: "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression." Remember, Adam and everyone after him was under law of God, beginning with His first command not to partake of the Fruit: "the LORD God commanded the man" (Gen 2:16); and innumerable times God told Noah and the people of God Israel what to do.
     
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