“Temporal Salvation?”

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Netchaplain

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I like the example of the prodigal son because the story's main concept concerns the fact that he is his father's son, evinced by his overwhelming desire (Holy Spirit's work--Gal 5:17) to return to fellowship with his father. It does not question the concept of him being the father's son, which I believe portrays that once union is established it is inseparable, which is not the same for fellowship.

Just as one born will always be a son to his father, even though there is no fellowship (close union) between them, they are still in a father-son union genealogically. One can be in union with God but not in fellowship, which fellowship is always eventually restored. There are examples of an appearance of a union, which union is eventually evinced to never have existed by the fact of the desire of a permanent absence of fellowship.

Unlike the natural union of a family where, though they are genealogically united, they can remain out of fellowship, the union with God will ultimately be evinced by the restored fellowship, which without would leave only one alternative--there was no union to begin with!

Either one is a Christian, which means being born again, or they have never been a Christian. All newborn Christians have much to learn concerning evidences of regeneration and applied Bible doctrine, whose lifestyle will progressively evince that God is working in them. Does not God work in every believer the unfailing desire for His will (Phil 2:13) and maintain it by His Spirit (Gal 5:17). If their lifestyle eventually evinces that God is not working His will in them, it confirms that regeneration has yet to occur.

It's not sensible to conceive that God would give salvation to anyone, knowing it would be temporarily. If He knew there was a chance of it being temporal for any reason, why would He give it; and more so, why is it called "eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9) if it is not permanent for the individual, for if it's not permanent in one's life it was something other than salvation, because there is only one type of salvation--eternal salvation. If one could get out of eternal salvation then it wasn’t eternal, which is conflicting. It's the "eternal" aspect of salvation that gives its greatest value and definition, without which would be worthless and of no use.

The primary block in understanding that "the gift of God is eternal life" (Rom 6:23) isn't because one is not a believer but is due to being brought up in the Christian life under the error of thinking that the recipient of salvation owes God for it, which concept understandably results in the desire to somehow pay for it. But this leaves the believer in heresy, unaware of the meaning of "gift" (free). God’s grace endowed does not incur debt to Him, but to "one another" (Rom 13:8), which left unpaid is "as one that beateth the air."

Such is the example of the story of a man who gave someone a luxurious display cabinet as a gift and while he was leaving he happened to notice the person was about to apply sandpaper to it (because he felt obligated to do something for the gift), upon which he told the man, "There's nothing that needs to be done to the cabinet, because it is finished." (John 19:30).

Granted, Scripture contains words and phrases that reveal temporal situations which appear to be related to the possession of salvation but are rather those which are related to a false pursuit, but not the possession of salvation.

Every aspect of salvation can be known and used in the service of God, but remove its eternal element, which is its pinnacle aspect, then suddenly you have a fallen disposable structure of “wood, hay, and stubble” (heretical doctrine) instead of “gold, silver, and precious stones” (the Gospel of Christ).

-NC
 

Episkopos

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It's not sensible to conceive that God would give salvation to anyone, knowing it would be temporarily.

Doesn't God give sunshine to those destined for life as well as those destined for death? He gives good things to all....without bias.

Every aspect of salvation can be known and used in the service of God, but remove its eternal element, which is its pinnacle aspect, then suddenly you have a fallen disposable structure of “wood, hay, and stubble” (heretical doctrine) instead of “gold, silver, and precious stones” (the Gospel of Christ).

Do you really believe what you have said here? The disposable structure is building with a human understanding ... a carnal understanding. All the works of the world are going to burn.

Only those works that are wrought in God will remain.

Too often, men judge what God is saying without reference to the entirety of the word. This causes a tangent away from the truth.

Our salvation is a process of winning over the soul to Christ. The regeneration deposit is for that purpose alone. We will be judged against what we have been given and the time we took in doing (or not doing).
 
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ScottAU

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Once a son always a son is a conjectural device used to make the assertion that "you can sin and not surely die" so long as you are a son.

Adam was a son of God.

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Yet what happened to Adam?

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


The Pharisees viewed themselves as God's people due to being blood descendents of Abraham for they said, "Abraham is our father"...

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

In fact the Pharisees boasted in their national idenity and the law associated with it.

Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Yet this boast availed them nothing due to their unbelief...

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Unbelief - G570 - apistia
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.

Once a son always a son? Not in the case of those who were broken off. Paul used the unbelief of Israel as an example to warn Christian's...

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jesus also said this...

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Clearly DEEDS are evidence of whom one belongs to...

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

"Once a son always a son" is HUMAN RHETORIC which is in complete opposition to the plain words of scripture. It certainly tickles the ears to believe that one can engage in rebellion for a time whereby the conscience is seared via a belief that God will somehow change the heart sometime down the road. So many people cling to "well God has not finished with me yet" whilst they persist in their iniquity under the false assumption that they are POSITIONALLY SAVED because they TRUSTED THE PROVISION of Penal Substition. Such notions are elaborate satanic deceptions used to negate the genuine repentance experience.

If one THINKS they are saved when they are not then there is no compulsion to DILIGENTLY SEEK reconciliation with God. People are tricked into believing in notions based on dogma instead of a true abiding relationship with Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not playing games when He warned...

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those who abide in Christ DO NOT work iniquity.

Paul gave this advce...

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Paul also taught this...

Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.



Once a son always a son is a lie of Satan for it denies the possibility of being cut off due to disobedience ( Rom 11:22).

Jesus taught...

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Abide - G3306 - menō
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

Which perfectly matches the teachings of Paul...

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:


The false teachers separate sonship from fellowship in order to promote "ye can sin and not surely die." Yet the Bible plainly states...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The true children of God are MANIFEST by the righteous fruit they produce due to their abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2-4).

The children of the devil are MANIFEST by their unrighteous conduct.

Hence Jesus taught...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

And Paul...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The children of God ARE NOT servants of sin, rather they have been made FREE in order to be servants of God.

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.



The false teachers will never show you the above. They will isolate select passages out of context and use conjecture in order to portray a mindset where one can be a son of God whilst one remains in the service of sin. Don't be decieved by the age old lie of "ye can sin and not surely die." We are to awake to righteousness and sin not which is a very beautiful thing indeed.


1Th 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
1Th 3:9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
1Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
1Th 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

God bless.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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ScottAU said:
Clearly DEEDS are evidence of whom one belongs to...
No, clearly FRUITS are evidence of whom one belongs to...

Now the DEEDS of the flesh are apparent... But the FRUIT of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:19-23

Every tree is known by its own fruit... Luke 6:44

Deeds apart from fruit is vanity.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
Doesn't God give sunshine to those destined for life as well as those destined for death? He gives good things to all....without bias.

Do you really believe what you have said here? The disposable structure is building with a human understanding ... a carnal understanding. All the works of the world are going to burn.

Only those works that are wrought in God will remain.

Too often, men judge what God is saying without reference to the entirety of the word. This causes a tangent away from the truth.

Our salvation is a process of winning over the soul to Christ. The regeneration deposit is for that purpose alone. We will be judged against what we have been given and the time we took in doing (or not doing).
Hi E - "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven" (John 3:57), but I don't know what your trying to share concerning the first line.

Both passages in 1 Cor. 3:14, 15 is in reference to the saved and concerning their works; the unbeliever has none, but the works of all believer's will vary between whose burns up and whose remains.

I believe salvation in the believer's life is also for growing in fellowship with God (according to our level of conforming to Christ's image), which depending on its closeness to Him will determine the Spirit's use of our life for outreach to others.

I agree the believer will "appear before the judgement seat of Christ for, "all must appear" (2 Cor 5:10), but it's not in a condemnatory manner, such as the unbeliever will encounter.
ScottAU said:
Once a son always a son is a conjectural device used to make the assertion that "you can sin and not surely die" so long as you are a son.
Hi Scott - A Christian is one who is born again. Anyone who claims to be born again and wants to sin is not born again. Anyone who truly is a Christian can be in error by claiming they do not sin, and still be saved.
 

ScottAU

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No, clearly FRUITS are evidence of whom one belongs to...

Now the DEEDS of the flesh are apparent... But the FRUIT of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:19-23

Every tree is known by its own fruit... Luke 6:44

Deeds apart from fruit is vanity.
Deeds apart from FAITH are vanity.

I don't think it is wrong to state that a righteous deed is a fruit of the Spirit and therefore evidence of who one belongs to.

After all deeds do prove faith and deeds do prove repentance.
 

Angelina

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A deed or act is never a fruit of the Spirit. The fruit is the outcome of the deed or action...not the deed or action itself. Fruit bare when one actions their thoughts motivated by faith, led by the Spirit. :)

Shalom!
 

ScottAU

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Angelina said:
A deed or act is never a fruit of the Spirit. The fruit is the outcome of the deed or action...not the deed or action itself. Fruit bare when one actions their thoughts motivated by faith, led by the Spirit. :)

Shalom!
I suppose it is a matter of semantics really.

If one is loving their neighbour as themselves due to abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ whereby they do a "good deed" I would not think it wrong to state that "the deed was a fruit of the Spirit in which they abide."

I see the term "fruit" simply being descriptive of somethine "being produced." Hence a good true "produces" that which is good both the "heart intent" and the "manifestation of the heart intent."