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13 Bible baptisms

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by GRACE ambassador, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Grace And Peace, Precious friend(s). Praying this will {Finally, for some}
    Scripturally alleviate Most or ALL of the Confusion of Various water
    traditions and rituals. And, IF God even requires it today! Amen?
    Note: All Scripture references Are KJB! First, this Outline:

    (A) The Twelve (12) baptisms Of God’s LAW/Prophetic Program!
    Including The true meaning of water baptism.​

    Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!" {online}:

    (B) God's ONE Baptism For His Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under
    HIS Revelation Of The Mystery/PURE GRACE Program!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Let us Begin: (A) The Twelve (12) baptisms Of God’s LAW/Prophetic Program!

    1. Noah’s type {figurative} baptism (Genesis_6:13, 7:23; 1_Peter_3:20-21!).
    Peter, the apostle to the circumcision [Jews] (Galatians_2:8!), writes to the
    elect strangers (1_Peter_1:1-2!), And mentions to them that eight people
    were “saved by water!”

    Did “water baptism save” the Jews (the circumcision)?

    2. Baptism unto Moses (Exodus_14:29; 1_Corinthians_10:2!).
    Paul presents Israel’s baptism unto Moses “in the cloud and in the sea!”
    Saving baptism or spiritual identification with God’s leader of His people?
    ------------------------------
    (Israel's various washings! Greek: baptismos = Hebrews_9:10!):

    3a. Israel’s ceremonial cleansings
    (Exodus_19:14, 30:17-21; Leviticus_11:25; Numbers_19:13!).
    These cleansing rituals were required under the Mosaic Law
    for the cleansing of the people.

    3b. Traditional Jewish baptisms
    (Matthew_15:2; Mark_7:3; Luke_11:38!).
    These washings were Not mandated under the Law,
    but were part of Jewish tradition.
    ======

    4. Levitical priesthood baptism (Exodus_29:4;
    Leviticus_8:6; Numbers_8:7!). This washing was The Second
    Requirement {The First being: "NO blemish!" (Leviticus_21:21!)},
    in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses!

    Is this baptism in any way connected To baptism # 9?

    ================================------------------------

    JESUS’ Various Baptisms:

    5. JESUS’ Baptism (Identification With/Immersed) Into the
    human race, By HIS Birth! (Matthew_1:18-25; Luke_2:5-20!).

    6. JESUS’ water Baptism by John (Matthew_3:13-17;
    Mark_1:9-11!). JESUS, Who Knew NO sin, Was Baptized by John
    to Fulfill All Righteousness! { Identification With confessors of sins,
    In Preparation For HIS (Baptismal) Death FOR sin! }

    7. JESUS’ Baptism With Fire
    (Isaiah_4:4; Malachi_3:3; Matthew_3:11; Luke_3:16!).
    JESUS Will Baptize the nation of Israel with fire when they
    are in Great Tribulation in the Time Of Jacob’s Trouble!
    { Is this Fiery Judgment also for the “chaff” when separated
    from the wheat? (Matthew_3:12; Luke_3:17!) }

    8. JESUS’ Baptism Unto Death! (Isaiah_53:12; Matthew_20:22-23;
    Mark_10:38-39, 15:28; Luke_12:50 cp John_18:11!).
    JESUS’ Third Baptism Which HE FULLY Accomplished On The Cross, Where
    HE Was Identified With the sins of Israel, as well as the rest of the world!
    { cp "...HE was numbered with the transgressors." (Mark_15:28!). }
    ===============================================================================================================

    9. "water baptism of repentance FOR remission of sin," that John
    preached (Before The Cross), And Peter continued (After The Cross!),
    to preach! (Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31;
    Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37; Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16;
    Acts_2:38; Acts_22:16; Ezekiel_36:25!).

    a) Does this baptism “save” anyone (Luke_7:29-30!)?
    -------------------------------------------------
    b1) Is this baptism in any way "connected" to baptism # 4?

    b2) Wasn't John preparing National Israel for God's Promise For
    them “to be a nation of priests unto God" (Exodus_19:6!)?

    b3) Was not The Second Requirement for priesthood induction,
    Washing? { may require re-review of baptism #4! }.

    b4) Did not CHRIST And The Twelve heal everyone in Israel who came to
    them, in order to meet “The FIRST Requirement” For the priesthood, that
    Of NO blemish!? (Matthew_4:24; Acts_5:16 cp Leviticus_21:21!).
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    c) Is this baptism for today? IF "you believe this baptism is FOR US"
    Today, then, we have Several More Questions:

    c1) Why does NO ONE Today, teach, as John ( Under The LAW! ),
    Claimed: it is FOR “making CHRIST Manifest To Israel” (John_1:31!)?

    c2) Why does {Almost} NO ONE Today, “Confess their sins,”
    when they come to This baptism (Matthew_3:6; Mark_1:5!)?

    c3) Why do not ALL Divided “denominations who WATER baptize”
    today, agree AS ONE, And teach water as John, CHRIST, And The
    Twelve ( Under The LAW! )
    , “taught That water baptism Is FOR
    The Remission Of sins!
    ” (Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; Acts_2:38!).

    { instead of each one’s own “symbolic Re-Interpreted Traditions!” }?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Not apologizing for all the questions = I {and probably a FEW others!},
    want The Truth, The WHOLE Truth, And NOTHING BUT "The Truth!"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Baptism Of Anointing?:

    10. Pentecostal Spirit baptism
    This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST,
    From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel,
    with signs and powers following!
    (Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
    Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38; Acts_8:15-17; Acts_11:16!).

    And, is not THIS The THIRD Requirement For "priesthood induction" =
    Anointing? (compare Exodus_29:7; Leviticus_8:10-12!).

    a) Is God Performing "This" Baptism On us TODAY?

    b) IF YOU believe you "are in the priesthood," are you Absolutely
    SURE
    that YOU have MET ALL THREE of God's Requirements?
    ===============================================================================================================

    11. Gentile baptism(s) of Cornelius (Acts_10:45-48; 15:9-11!).
    Cornelius was baptized WITH The Holy Spirit as a “sign” from
    God to Peter. Peter subsequently baptizes Cornelius and the other
    Spirit-filled Gentiles with water. {"Not" saved by water? }

    a) WHY Did God "Change The Order" between Acts_2:38 and here?

    b) Are THESE baptisms, Required By God, For us (Gentiles), TODAY?:

    c) Should not All who "think" they are a priest, Triple Check!:
    "What God Says"?:
    c1) NO blemish!
    c2) water baptized FOR The remission of sin!!
    c3) Baptized, Anointed By CHRIST, WITH HIS Spirit "Poured
    Out on you, for power, signs, And wonders"!
    Anybody?​
    --------------------------------------------

    12. Baptism for the dead (1_Corinthians_15:29!).

    No sound interpretation (I don’t think) has yet to be offered for this!
    Mormons {with Another Jesus} are kept in busy bondage using this
    obscure verse, connected with “endless genealogies" #, to supposedly:
    SAVE {by Another Jesus} those already passed in death!

    This theory Has NO Scriptural Basis, As It Is
    “appointed once to die, and after that = Judgment!” ##
    All sinners need to make the Correct Decision “in THIS life,
    BEFORE Death Occurs, as God Has no salvation by proxy!,” Correct?

    (# FORBIDDEN = 1_Timothy_1:4; ## death/judgment = Hebrews_9:27!)

    Update: found this in the archives: Baptism For the Dead (R Kurth)
    ========================================================
    End of “The Twelve (12) baptisms” Of God’s LAW/Prophetic Program!

    Note: The TWELVE "Were SENT" to baptize! (Matthew_28:19!).
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)


    -------------------------------------------------------------
    ...Paul Was "NOT sent" to baptize! (1_Corinthians_1:17!).

    to be continued in: Bible Baptism # 13...
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
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  2. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Part 2 of: 13 Bible baptisms

    Continuing With:

    (B) God's ONE Baptism For His Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under
    HIS Revelation Of The Mystery/PURE GRACE Program!


    Precious friends, thanks for your undivided attention, and please Note:

    From CHRIST, to HIS 12 apostles, on earth, He Commissioned:
    The TWELVE "Were SENT" to baptize! (Matthew_28:19!).
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bible Baptism # 13

    From CHRIST, to HIS ONE apostle, From Heaven, He Commissioned:
    ...Paul Was "NOT sent" to baptize!! (1_Corinthians_1:17!!).

    Now, some {baptismal regenerationists}, would have us believe Paul's
    commission is Exactly THE SAME {#} as that of the Twelve, and this verse
    should be interpreted as: "...Paul was not [PRIMARILY] sent to baptize..."
    Is this ok to [ADD] to God's Plain Word, When HE Strictly Forbids us to?:

    "Never ADD to, or Take Away From God's Word Of Truth!" { BSR # 3 }
    (
    Deuteronomy_4:2, 12:32; Proverbs_30:5-6; Revelation_22:18,19 KJB!)

    ----------------------------------------
    {#} Disproven here:
    God's Approval/TWO gospels in Prophecy vs Mystery!
    and here:
    "Distinctions” in God’s TWO Programs: Prophecy vs MYSTERY!
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Now, let us ask WHY Did God “Not Send” Paul to {water} baptize?
    Could it be because Of HIS Doctrine of:

    ONE Scriptural Baptism for today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?:

    Briefly, Today There Is:
    Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
    Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
    (Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
    Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)

    If this brief explanation is insufficient, then please...
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    ...Precious friend(s), continue here with the Expanded Version,
    lovingly and humbly presented for your Edification/spiritual Building Up!:

    Bible Baptism # 13

    Grace and Peace to All Diligent Bible students, and Dear Readers who
    have Persevered through the Many previous baptisms, and have come
    to this point of Weighing ALL Of God’s Scriptural Evidence In HIS
    Very Critically Important Doctrine Of Baptisms!

    With just a wee bit more patience, we would like to ask:
    Is God’s Doctrine of ONE Baptism, as many think, water?

    Are we not Spiritually Identified With (Baptized Into) CHRIST,
    HIS Crucifixion, HIS
    Death, HIS Burial, And HIS Resurrection!?

    (Sounds like The Greatest News I've Ever heard!), so…
    ..some of The Confirming Scriptures:

    Romans_6:3 ...Baptized Into JESUS CHRIST...Baptized Into HIS Death!

    Romans_6:4 ...Buried With HIM By Baptism Into Death!

    Romans_6:6 ...Crucified (JESUS' Baptism?) With HIM! - And also:

    “For as many of you as Have Been BAPTIZED Into
    CHRIST
    Have Put On CHRIST!” (Galatians_3:27!)

    How does a physical ritual "Baptize us into a Spiritual Organism"?

    In addition, there is NO water Found “In God's Context Of Any Of
    These Baptism Passages! Precious friend(s), do you Agree With God?

    Or, can we simply Add/Infer water into HIS Context "to fit" another view?
    { Do we recall BSR # 3 ? }

    With The SuperNatural Help Of The Blessed Holy Spirit, And Comparing
    Spiritual Scripture WITH Spiritual Scriptures (1_Corinthians_2:13!),
    This ONE Baptism Makes us Spiritually:

    “COMPLETE In HIM, WHO Is The Head Of ALL principality and power!”
    (Colossians_2:10!), having:

    “...The Circumcision Made WITHOUT HANDS { God’s Operation? }
    ...The Circumcision Of CHRIST!” (Colossians_2:11!), And Spiritually:

    “Buried With HIM In BAPTISM, Wherein Also ye Are Risen With
    HIM {water? OR:} Through The Faith Of THE OPERATION Of God,
    Who Hath RAISED HIM From The Dead!” (Colossians_2:12!), AND

    Further:

    “Not by works of righteousness {water?} which we have done, But
    According To HIS Mercy HE SAVED us By The WASHING of REGENERATION
    {Operation Of God’s BLOOD? }, And RENEWING Of The Holy Ghost...” (Titus_3:5!)

    “...Which HE Shed on us Abundantly Through JESUS CHRIST our SAVIOUR!”
    (Titus_3:6!)

    to be continued....
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  3. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Part 3 Of 13 Bible baptisms

    Part 2 of God's ONE Baptism, By The Holy Spirit:

    ...continuing:

    The Previous Scriptures In Part 1:
    Should “Complete The Spiritual OPERATION” of The Triune GodHead,
    But, Are we done “Comparing ALL The Scriptures” Of The ONE Baptism?
    All diligent students Should see That, In:

    The Revelation Of The Mystery (Gospel Of GRACE
    For "us Today”),
    with a Prayerful and Careful study, Rightly Divided, God Teaches:

    Ephesians_4:5 Clearly States: “...One LORD, one faith, ONE BAPTISM...”

    {But, perchance Paul was mistaken, and he really meant two?}

    So, What Saith The Holy Scriptures, “In It's Immediate Context,”
    { can we interpret water out of it? }, About This ONE Baptism?:

    “Endeavouring to keep The Unity Of The Spirit in the bond of Peace!
    There is One Body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in One hope
    of your calling; One LORD, One faith, ONE Baptism, One God And
    Father of ALL, Who Is Above ALL, and through All, and In you All!”

    (Ephesians_4:3-6!)

    Are we All Really "endeavouring to keep this Unity"? {Certainly
    seems impossible, being All Divided UP over water, Correct?}

    Now, unless we are mistaken, there are 3 choices of understanding
    God’s Context In This Critically Important Passage!:

    1) all “physical” { Wrong "unity" } = Destruction of “HIS Context," agreed?

    2) “combo” of 6 Spiritual + 1 “physical,” lifted “out, and”

    “isolated”​

    From HIS Context, to be interpreted as: “water” baptism =
    Destruction { NO Unity! } Of God's Context, agreed?

    3) These Seven Unities Of God's Spirit are, {In Total UNITY }, All Spiritual!

    Correct? So now we kindly/humbly ask, Why, as some propose,
    is not God’s ONE Baptism “Spiritual”? Let us then, Finally:

    Make ONE More "Scriptural Comparison" (1_Corinthians_2:13!), And Ask:

    “What Saith The Scripture?” And, The ONE Answer we hear, From God, IS:


    For 'BY' ONE Spirit are we all Baptized Into ONE Body, whether
    we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; And Have
    Been ALL Made To Drink Into ONE Spirit!"
    (1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)

    UNITED! Or Severely Divided?

    If This "ONE BAPTISM" Is Not = The OPERATION Of God,”
    then we would have to concede that it is:
    men & religion with ‘water' that saves us – any takers?
    +
    { Please advise: Are these not sins, to take:

    God’s “Spiritual Operation Of ONE Baptism,"


    and for men To:
    (1) ADD to IT, thereby Changing God's Math: ONE = two?
    (2) Replace IT with water, thereby Cancelling God's OPERATION!?
    (3) Marry the TWO, and proclaim "that Both of them: TWO = one"?

    Is not THIS:
    [ Wrongly Combining, instead of "Rightly Dividing God's Word of Truth" ]
    not why the weak And Severely Divided Church is Thoroughly Confused? }

    “For God Is not The Author of confusion, but Of PEACE,
    as in ALL churches of the saints!” (1_Corinthians_14:33!)
    Amen?

    Thus, All True Believers who come to God, In The Way God Has
    Prescribed In His HOLY WORD, By The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God
    ,
    And Place Complete 100% faith In:

    The LORD JESUS CHRIST, In HIS Precious BLOOD, And In HIS Resurrection!

    Will ALWAYS have spiritual UNITY!, In:
    God's “Spiritual OPERATION Of Eternal Salvation" For EverMore! Amen?

    Are All in "agreement With God" with your Final Verdict Of HIS Truth!?
    (1_Corinthians_1:9-18 cp Romans_15:6; Philippians_1:27!)

    IF so, could that Really be the start of practical earthly Unity Of
    The Already "spiritually United ( members one of another!” ), Church
    { In Heaven! }, Which Is HIS Body Of CHRIST!? (Ephesians_4:3!)
    +
    {Imagine The Power The United Church Could have in the world, eh? }

    And, That "fellowship Based On" our mutual FAITH In CHRIST!
    { Instead of Division due to Various Unsound water doctrines! } Amen?

    Please pray for this “Unity Of The Spirit In The Bond Of Peace!” And,
    thanks kindly For Your Patient Review of This Critically Important study!
    +
    ------------------------------------
    Additional
    study, IF you wish:

    “If the one baptism of Ephesians_4:5 is the spiritual baptism of
    I Corinthians 12:13—and we know it is—then there are no other
    baptisms that are to be observed today. CHRIST PAID IT ALL,
    “that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.”
    (Paul Sadler):

    The Uncertain Trumpet of water baptism
    -------------------------
    See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ :)

    Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
    The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
    ====================================
    LORD JESUS, thank You for This Precious Word Of Truth That Has Solved
    my confusion. May This Also be used for the Encouragement of Many others.
    Amen.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
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  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Addressing the OP, an impressive list, I commend you. if you don't mind, is these ways and means or the method of the types of Baptism, but not the actual Baptism itself. this is what I mean, is not Baptism is in authority, or G1849, exousiaa the right or privilege, meaning in obedience to the faith? it is by the express order and command of that God who is from everlasting to everlasting, is giving "whosoever", the ight or privilege to obey?

    for Water baptism, as the other are simply a type, or method to express this freedom. what i mean is this. scripture, John 1:26 "John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;"
    here John uses WATER to Baptize with, just as the Lord Jesus uses the Spirit to Baptize with. understand John could have used MILK to baptize "WITH", or kerosene, ect.... see what I mean. he just used WATER. just as the Lord Jesus use the Spirit to baptize .... "WITH". which is a means or method of the end "Baptizing".

    but i like the list.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  5. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Precious friend, 101G, Thanks So Much for the Encouragement, and,
    see you In God's Great GloryLand!!:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  6. Amazed@grace

    [email protected] Well-Known Member

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    What a thread.:)

    9. "water baptism of repentance FOR remission of sin," that John
    preached (Before The Cross), And Peter continued (After The Cross!),
    to preach! (Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31;
    Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37; Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16;
    Acts_2:38; Acts_22:16; Ezekiel_36:25!).

    a) Does this baptism “save” anyone (Luke_7:29-30!)?


    Luke 7:29-30
    New American Standard Bible

    29 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the [a]lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

    Read full chapter
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The words of Christ are Truth, so LISTEN UP:
    18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Mt 28:18-20)

    Did you get it? (1) Preach the Gospel, (2) make disciples, (3) baptize according to Christ's command, and (4) teach them to observe all things commanded by Christ (including water baptism).
     
  8. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Precious friend, I DID listen! Appreciate your help With The Truth!
    Now, More Questions are Still Looming!...

    Did you get it? Thanks, All Scripture Is Profitable for our learning!
    Especially No. (4) teach them to observe all things commanded by Christ!
    water baptism is the EASY part, but the Rest Of the ALL Things is UNimportant?:

    the "great commission"?
    Should we "deny The Importance of ALL that is Associated WITH it"?
    Or should we Minimize importance by:

    Practicing "pick And Choose" theology, of what to obey {the Important Parts?}
    or NOT OBEY {the UNimportant Parts?}!

    Exactly HOW is that being "obedient to Christ," When He Specifically Said:
    “Observe ALL things WHATSOEVER I Have COMMANDED you!”?

    i.e:

    Shorter version:
    Ok, Yes, OBEY water baptism, But, how about THIS PART of Observing ALL!?:

    "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be PERFECT, go and sell that
    thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:
    and come and follow ME. (Matthew_19:21 KJB!)

    "Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou
    lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor,
    and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross,
    and follow ME!" (Mark_10 : 21 KJB!)


    q: What good is water, IF "PART OR ALL of the rest is DISOBEYED"?

    Longer version:
    ►► Peter [+11], TWELVE preached:
    gospel of the kingdom!:​

    (A) Salvation = "he that believeth AND is baptized Shall Be SAVED!"
    (Mark_16:16 cp Luke_7:29-30; ► Acts_2:38; ◄ James_2:17-18!) ◄◄

    (B) And Includes The LORD’s FIVE-Part Marching Orders, the
    so-called ( added as a Page Header in Bibles ) Great Commission:

    (B1):
    “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in The Name
    Of The Father, and Of The SON, and of The Holy Ghost: Teaching
    them to Observe ALL Things Whatsoever I Have Commanded you:
    and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen!”
    (Matthew_28:19-20!) "Picked" By MANY/"Partially Chosen" to obey!

    Including: “Observe ALL things WHATSOEVER I Have COMMANDED you!”:

    “Then Spake JESUS To the multitude, And To HIS disciples,
    Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
    ALL therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that OBSERVE

    AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not!”​
    (Matthew_23:1-3!) "Picked/Chosen " By Torah keepers? Disobeyed By Many?

    (B2):
    “And HE Said Unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the
    gospel to every creature. He that believeth And is baptized shall
    be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these
    signs Shall Follow them that believe: In MY Name shall they cast out
    devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents;

    and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they
    shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover…. And they went
    forth, and preached every where, The LORD Working With them, and
    Confirming The Word With signs following. Amen!” (Mark_16:15-20!)
    "PICKED" By Charismatics? DisJointed/Fragmented By Many!

    (B3):
    “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in
    HIS Name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are
    witnesses of these things. And, behold, I Send The Promise of MY
    Father Upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be
    endued with power From On High!” (Luke_24:47-49!)
    "PICKED" By Charismatics? DISbelieved By Many!

    (B4):
    “Then Said JESUS To them again, Peace Be Unto you: As MY Father
    Hath Sent ME, Even So Send I you. And When HE Had Said This, HE
    Breathed On them, And Saith Unto them, Receive ye The Holy Ghost:
    Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and
    whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained!” (John_20:21-23!)
    "PICKED" By Romanists? MISunderstood/Ignored By Many!

    (B5):
    “But ye shall receive power, after that The Holy Ghost Is Come Upon you:
    and ye shall be witnesses unto ME both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea,
    and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth!” (Acts_1:8!)
    "PICKED" By Pentacostalists/Charismatics? And the Many Others?

    End of: Salvation / Commission In God's "Law/Prophetic Program!"
    From CHRIST To HIS TWELVE, on the earth!
    ------------------------------------

    Well, Precious friend(s), is it ALL IMPORTANT, or do we make Excuses of
    WHY we "pick and choose"? And, how Exactly is that "making disciples"
    WHEN they are THROUGHLY Confused about "OBEY ALL Things"???

    Final Q: What IF God's Answer Is "NO water, for us today"? Will not that
    Exacerbate
    The Above problems IMMENSELY?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  9. Gary Urban

    Gary Urban Active Member

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    To be baptised (washed) is to get under the water of the word or doctrines of God that fall from heaven . They are all cerimoinal as shadows of the new heavens and earth . Water baptism by the water of the word is used to represent a kingdom of priest .The order was changed when Jeus came but it supplies the same need a way of idenfying to the world a desire to serve as a priest holding out the gospel. Again no redeeming value. Aarons two sons added what is called strange fire a personal self edfying work .(I did it and it proves I have the Holy Spirit ).They were consumed and the cerimoinal clothing . .not a scent of smoke .
     
  10. Daniel Veler

    Daniel Veler Active Member

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    John told the people I indeed baptize you with water but the one that is coming will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire. There is but one God, one Christ and one baptism. Those who teach water baptism is essential are really saying Christ is not enough. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is that we are born again made in the image of God. The fire as the apostle wrote said our works will be tried by the fire. Those that had bad works would be burned up by the fire and those good would come through the fire.
     
    Gary Urban likes this.
  11. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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  12. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Yes sir Grace, that word is used in different ways although not found in the Hebrew Scriptures, but I get your meaning. Christians picture water immersion when they hear the word for the most part though. Nice your brought out the baptism by fire as well, definitely relevant to those partakers of the heavenly calling.
     
  13. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    13 Bible baptisms
    Pity the owners of those soggy pages!
     
  14. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Precious Robert, thanks so much for your input.

    GRACE And Peace...
     
  15. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    You are very welcome Grace, only too happy to talk about Scriptural topics.
     
  16. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Previously:
    Update: found this Excellent Article: Baptism For the Dead (R Kurth)

    Precious friend(s):

    Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
    The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

    GRACE And Peace...
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Well-Known Member

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    I believe Spirit baptism is the one and only baptism for believers today.
    The difference in our views is that I see the baptism in the great commission as Spirit baptism.

    Matthew 28:19
    “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”

    The disciples partially misunderstood Jesus’ great commission command above here. Peter was still focused on water baptism when that changed after the cross to Spirit baptism. I believe it took time for Peter and the others to figure this out.

    The disciples were to teach all nations how to be saved by the Lord Jesus Christ, which in turn automatically baptized them into the name of all three persons of the Godhead (Which name is Jesus). This is why Paul baptized in the name of Jesus and laid hands on the Ephesian believers and they received the Holy Spirit (When they knew only of John’s water baptism - Acts of the Apostles 19:1-6).
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that most church denominations get it wrong on water baptism. The purpose of water baptism back then was to confess of one's sins to the Lord (i.e. repentance).

    Where we may disagree is that only the “confessing of one's sins to the Lord” part is what really was salvific. Being baptized into a body of water was simply tied to the event of confessing one's sins to the Lord (Note: With the confessing of sins part being the real thing that really saved). Peter makes it clear in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism saves not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. either an outward cleansing ritual that saves you or it is something that is not for the putting away of sin - Note: the words: “filthiness of the flesh” in 2 Corinthians 7:1 clearly refers to sin), but baptism saves us as to either give an answer to God, or an open public declaration that we have an already clean conscience before Him (By the fact that we confessed of our sins to the Lord and have been saved or cleansed spiritually).

    John also was the only one initially baptising until the disciples of Christ later baptized others. John's water baptism was done by John and no other people (except for the disciples of Christ later on). This brings me to my point about your mention of Luke 7:29-30 and your asking if it was salvific.

    Luke 7:29-30 says:
    29 “And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
    30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.”

    As you know, one major reason for John's water baptism was to reveal Jesus Christ (John 1:31). That was one purpose behind John's water baptism. When Jesus was water baptized, he did not partake of it in repentance (confessing sins to the Lord) like others. Also, when Jesus was water baptized He also received the Anointing of the Holy Spirit (Which again was not something others received) by this water baptism. At the heart, what this water baptism was saying is that one had a clean conscience. Jesus’ conscience was already clean because He is the Son of God. He is perfect and sinless. Others were not and so this leads us to the second purpose of water baptism. Others in the region needed to confess of their sins to God and then once their conscience was cleared by doing so, they would openly declare to God that their conscience was clean by the act of water baptism. It was not the act of water baptism itself that was salvific, but the confessing of their sins to the Lord part. But seeing both of them were rolled into together as one event or call, it was salvific. Most today do not know call others to confess of their sins when they are water baptized. It’s not a call of repentance. But that’s what it was when John was water baptizing. He was calling people to seek forgiveness with God. The water part was only confirmation of their already clean conscience before God. So while John’s water baptism of REPENTANCE was required for salvific purposes (because it was combined with the act of confessing sins to the Lord) it was not the actual water ritual itself that was a part of one being saved. Jesus partook of repentance to fulfill all righteousness (Which prefigured His baptism of death, and His resurrection).

    But the water ritual itself (without the confessing of one’s sins to the Lord) no more saved than it does when a person takes a bath. The Jews rejected John’s water baptism because it was a call to repentance (to seek forgiveness of one’s sins with the Lord). The Jews did not think they needed to confess of their sins to God and get their hearts right with Him. But Jesus rebuked the Jews and called them hypocrites and serpents and said that they do the lusts of their father the devil. So yes. The Jews needed to repent (seek forgiveness with the Lord) and that is what they were truly rejecting when John the Baptist was calling them to repent (Calling them a brood of vipers).

    Side Note:

    As for Ezekiel 36:25: This verse is not 100% clear that it is a reference to the water immersion portion in John’s water baptism. John baptized in the Jordan and it was full body immersion into that water. There is no indication that John the Baptist sprinkled with water as Ezekiel 36:25 says. In fact, Ezekiel 36:25 says you will be sprinkled with CLEAN water. I don’t imagine the Jordan being clean water (even during that time period). So I take this clean water being sprinkled upon a person as being in reference to a spiritual act by GOD.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
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