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Featured 2. Could Pharaoh Have Repented?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by "ByGrace", Apr 14, 2019.

  1. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I am enjoying reading Willie's Thread ...but I am having trouble following some questions and answers right through to the end. As we each are answer or questioning any of the 75 questions all in one thread! ( and I am a bear of very little brain, like Winnie The Pooh )
    So I am putting up a couple of Willie's questions...

    Maybe you will all feel like you already answered in @Willie T thread, so that's fine...no worries...

    @Willie T said
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. God used him to display his power.
     
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  3. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I find this question a hard one...just like Judas.
    If they didn't do what they did , what was 'their destined part' to do..who would have? Someone had to!
    So , did the prophesy ( re Judas) come first..or did Judas choose before time began and the OT prophesy come because of destiny?

    ( I will get shouted down, but I personally believe that Judas repented , was broken, and thus hung himself "believing" he had committed a sin that could never be forgiven...but shush...don't let anyone know what I believe :D ).
     
  4. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but he refused.
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I think so too.
     
  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    This is just an opinion but not sure could he have repented is the point but how (as a vessel formed of the Potter) Pharaoh did his part in Romans 9:17-18 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. [18] Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will he hardeneth.

    Romans 9:21-23
    [21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    Was it Pharaoh’s will be done ...or God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven? “...that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,”
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    good topic BG, God can do anything he wants, scripture, Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
    Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    Romans 9:14 "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    Romans 9:15 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    Romans 9:17 "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

    which bring me to the JUDAS question. like Judas so pharaoh, scripture, Mark 12:26 "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
    Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

    now under the New covenant to fulfill it, scripture, Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living".

    Now Judas died before christ died, scripture, 1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    1 Peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    1 Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    so Judas was in prision, as was pharaoh, and any other who was sometimes disobedient and Jesus preache to all of them of the dead.
    so alive in the flesh God harden pharaoh heart, but in the spirit he preached to him. Esau alive in the flesh have I hated. but he blessed him through his father Isaac. Hebrews 11:20 "By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

    when I look at this thing God have no restraints, "is anything to hard for God?" .... no.

    so alive or DEAD, God can still save. for he is Lord of both the living and the dead.

    PICJAG.
     
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  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    One thing is certain in that God is always good even when we question. Considering John the Baptist who sat in prison, captive, soon to have his head removed and why he remained there...sending his disciples to Jesus Christ to ask if He was the One who was to come to set the captives free?

    Luke 7:20-23
    When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? [21] And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. [22] Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. [23] And blessed is he , whosoever shall not be offended in me.
     
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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    If what you say is true, Christ would not have identified him as a devil, and Peter would not have called him the Son of Perdition (Damnation) who "went to his own place". Wishful thinking will get you nowhere when it comes to Bible truth.

    As to Pharaoh (or any evil person including Hitler, Stalin, or Mao) they all could have repented had they chosen to do so. Pharaoh was given multiple opportunities to repent, just as all sinners are given multiple opportunities to repent. But because Pharaoh kept on hardening his heart, God eventually hardened his heart so that he was damned.

    God deals with all sinners in this manner (Hebrews 3):
    7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
    8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:...
    9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
    10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
    11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
    12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
    14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
    15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
    17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
    18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    Pharaoh refused to believe God or acknowledge the living God. He thought himself to be a god. And that is why he was damned.

    BUT GOD PREDESTINES NO ONE FOR EITHER SALVATION OR DAMNATION. THAT IS A DAMNABLE DOCTRINE.
     
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  10. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he could have repented, but he was of a mind to where the Lord knew he would not repent, especially given the actions the Lord took to harden his heart. By this, the Lord was referring to ordering Moses to perform miracles - the first three, anyway - that He fully well knew the Egyptian magicians would be able to duplicate. This was to make Pharaoh believe that Moses was just another magician, and therefore not let the entire nation of Israel go so that God might show forth His power. The Lord's intention was to keep Pharaoh in his state of unbelief so that he would not back down, thinking he was dealing with a mere magician rather than the true and Living God.

    Had Pharaoh been a godly man, the Lord would have never chosen him. But this pharaoh was cruel and overbearing from the start, as is evident in how he treated the Israelites, so the Lord kept him from getting out of the judgment He had determined for him by hardening his heart in this manner. But Pharaoh always had freewill, and had he been a better man he would never have been chosen for this job to begin with.
     
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  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Amen, Matthew 10:39 "He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

    PICJAG
     
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  12. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Also to display his plan
     
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  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Do you really believe that God ever intends to keep people in a state of unbelief? The Bible reveals that the exact opposite is true. God did everything in His power to bring Pharaoh to repentance, and after giving him every chance, God hardened his heart. And in His divine foreknowledge, God told Moses that He would harden Pharaoh's heart.

    And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go. And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us... (Exod 5:2,3)

    Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, Intreat the LORD, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto the LORD.(Exod 8:8)

    But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. (Exod 8:15)

    And Pharaoh said, I will let you go, that ye may sacrifice to the LORD your God in the wilderness; only ye shall not go very far away: intreat for me. (Exod 8:28)

    And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go. (Exod 8:32)

    And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. (Exod 9:27)

    And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. (Exod 9:34)
     
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  14. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Hey Grace, did God orchestrate his crusifiction?
     
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  15. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Haven't read the rest of your post yet, but regarding Pharaoh during the time he kept the Israelites bound in slavery and wouldn't let them go, yes. That's the entire thrust of the teaching, which is why Paul had to explain it to those who might question God by saying He was unjust in doing so.

    Could Pharaoh have avoided the incident long beforehand? Yes. Could he have repented afterwards? Yes. But at the time when Moses appeared to him, no. His fate was sealed from decisions he had made in the past, until God's will would be accomplished. Did that mean he didn't have freewill? No. But the Lord was deliberately doing things to harden his heart so that he would not let His people go. That's the thrust of the entire teaching.
    You see Pharaoh being two-faced through this entire episode, as if when he was calling God "the Lord" he was simply referring to Him by the name Moses himself was using, yet never truly believing in Him.
     
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  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Amazing pharaoh had sovereignty over all of Egypt,,,,
    But didn’t possess the power to believe.
    Belief is a gift of God.
     
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  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    “...in a state of unbelief” until the fulfillment of that which is written.

    Romans 11:11-12
    [11] I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. [12] Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    Romans 11:25
    [25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Revelation 17:17
    [17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

    God is power. How could you believe God did everything within His power to convince Pharaoh...if that were the case then Pharaoh would have believed but was instead “raised” of God for a purpose.
     
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  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Do you see the ILLOGIC of this question?

    God has done everything in His power to bring all humanity to Christ. Does that guarantee that all will be saved? Obedience to the Gospel is necessary for salvation, and few will enter the narrow gate and take the narrow way.

    In God's divine foreknowledge, He raised Pharaoh as an example of those who are given every opportunity to repent, but in the end have their hearts hardened by God because of their OWN HARDNESS OF HEART. I even showed you the Scriptures.
     
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  19. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Similar to those in slavery now and His call going out to “let them go!” Who is being warned to let them go from serving Idols to come out of to “serve the living God”?

    1 Thessalonians 1:8-9
    [8] For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. [9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

    Hebrews 9:14
    [14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
     
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  20. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Active Member

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    2. Could Pharaoh Have Repented?

    To begin with, yes... but he went past the point of no return.
     
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