1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured 2 Thessalonians 1:8

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Ernest T. Bass, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    2 Thess 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

    The implication of the verse is if one does not want to be lost in flaming fire facing God's vengeance then one must obey the gospel of Christ.

    What is the gospel of Christ and how does one obey that gospel?

    In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
    "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
    "

    Paul says the gospel he preached was the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTON of Christ.

    How does one obey the historical events of the gospel, that is, obey the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?

    Romans 6:3-7
    "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    For he that is dead is freed from sin
    ."

    When one is water baptized, the old man of sin DIES being BURIED in a watery grave and then RAISED UP FROM (resurrected) from that watery grave to walk in newness of life (born again). This death, burial and resurrection does not happen when one says a sinner's prayer or when one has faith alone but happens only when one humbly submits himself to the will of God in water baptism where God does the work in cutting away the body of sin, (Col 2).

    Romans 6:17-18
    "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
    Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness
    ."

    The word 'form" (typo) means a pattern, an example. That form of doctrine those Jewish coverts in Rome had obeyed from the heart was water baptism with water baptism being a form, a pattern of Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Having obeyed God's will to be water baptized (form of Christ's death, burial and resurrection) then they were made free from sin (justified) having had their sins forgiven/remitted/the body of sin cut away by God.
     
    1stCenturyLady likes this.
  2. larry2

    larry2 Active Member

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    216
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I personally believe we should follow that gospel we will be judged by.

    It was Col 1:25 . . the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
    Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations . .

    Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
    Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
    1Co 11:2 . . and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

    Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
     
  3. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,169
    Likes Received:
    885
    John 3.16 contains the Gospel wonderfully.
     
    friend of likes this.
  4. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    The questioned posed in this thread is what is the gospel and how does one obey it so as not to be in flaming fire per 2 Thess 1:8
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I understand the passage differently. We cannot become Christians by acting like one. This happens when we turn the gospel into law. Do this first, and God will do this...and so on. But God changes our hearts of stone into hearts of love in the new birth. So from that point on we do all the things Christians do by nature. One thing we do is obey Christ. But it is not mechanical and legalistic, it is in love for Christ.
    “Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:10) (KJV 1900)
     
    brakelite, Acolyte and 1stCenturyLady like this.
  6. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    522
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, you obey naturally according to your resurrected new nature after the death of the old nature. You cannot obey with the old nature still intact.
     
    Acolyte and Dave L like this.
  7. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    From Rom 6, walking in newness of life comes AFTER one has obeyed the gospel by being water baptized.
     
    Acolyte likes this.
  8. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    From 2 Thess 1:8 one must OBEY the GOSPEL of Christ in order to not find himself in flaming fire. Obeying the gospel is done when one is water baptized hence water baptism is that form of Christ's death burial and resurrection.

    Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:...…..."

    The logical implication of this is those who rejected baptism were rejecting the gospel word as preached by Peter...rejecting Peter's command to be baptized (Acts 2:38) is rejecting the gospel of Christ. And being baptized is gladly receiving the gospel of Christ.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You believe in salvation by works. But it is the other way around. When Christ saves us, we want to be baptized and live holy lives.
     
  10. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    Salvation is by faithful obedience to the will of God. (Hebrews 5:9). Those then that are obedient to the Lord's command to be water baptized are the ones who obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no salvation without obedience per 2 Thessalonians 1:8. No example in the NT of a disobedient person first being saved then that person can then obey. The order of NT verses put obedience in believing, repenting, confession and baptism BEFORE salvation (John 8:24; Luke 13:3; Matthew 10:32-33, Mark 6:16). No one can be saved BEFORE one obeys by believing.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The problem is, nobody can be obedient unless God first saves them. Then they want to do all the things Christians do.
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    19,470
    Likes Received:
    5,774
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    wadr your implication here is that "the saved" will not be in flaming fire too i guess, right;
    download.jpg
     
    VictoryinJesus likes this.
  13. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    522
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You don't kill someone by burying them alive, they must be dead first.
     
  14. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    Yes, the old man of sin dies first before one can walk in newness of life (born again). And the death of the old man of sin occurs when one is water baptized.
     
  15. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    "The saved" will be the ones who have conditionally obeyed the gospel of Christ per 2 Thess 1:8.
     
  16. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    61
    One problem with this is it makes God a respecter of persons when it comes to salvation when God is not (Acts 10:34). Such an idea puts salvation solely in God's hand where God alone decides capriciously, unconditionally which individuals will be saved and which ones will not.

    Another problem is no verse says one must first be saved before he can obey.

    (1) a number of verses put obedience BEFORE salvation as Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Rom 10:9-10 etc. Again, Paul said in Romans 6:16 obedience UNTO righteousness and NOT obedience BECAUSE one is already righteous.
    "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you."
    "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
    "

    Note the order of events in the salvation of those Jewish converts in Rome towhom Paul was writing:

    1) were the servants of sin
    2) obeyed from the heart that from of doctrine
    3) then freed from sin > justified.

    Again, Paul puts obedience to the will of God BEFORE salvation. There is no eample tobe found under the NT gospel of God saving one impenitent, disobedient person.

    (2) in Acts 2 we have the first recorded gospel sermon as preached by Peter. Peter was preaching to spiritually dead Jews, Peter said of them "... ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain." Yet while spiritually dead they were will and able to hear Peter's sermon, understand his sermon, see their lost condition to the point of asking Peter 'what shall we do', and able to obey the command Peter gave them to do in verse 38 all while spiritually dead.
     
  17. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    522
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    If that is what you want to believe according to scripture, fine; but to me according to scripture baptism is by obedience after we are born again, which means we have repented and been filled with the Spirit. Many never repent and are baptized to join a denomination. That is not true baptism.

    1 Peter 3:
    20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

    Do you see the phrase "filth of the flesh"? That is the old man that produced sins of the flesh which requires repentance. So baptism is not to kill the old man as you believe, but is in response to when you are already in good conscience.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Only sinless people can obey.
     
  19. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    522
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    First the person must repent. You believe Calvin and got the cart before the horse again.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You cannot repent from what you are. You can repent from what you were.
     
Loading...