A Common Error:

[H. Richard]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.
-
Gal 1:8 NKJV
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
-
It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.
-
Rom 2:16 NKJV
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Rom 16:25 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.
-
It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.
-
Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
-
Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
-
Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
-
Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.
-
IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.
-
It is my obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error.

 

[mjrhealth]

May I ask what it is you are actually trying to say???

 

[H. Richard]

May I ask what it is you are actually trying to say???

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.

It is written in simple English. What county are you from?

 

[StanJ]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.
and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.

It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.
-
IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.
-
It is my obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error.

I'm not really sure why you label preachers/teachers as religious? Are you trying to assert you are not?
The Pauline letters are consistent with all the other letters written in the NT and with the Gospels. Jesus called Paul and Peter to minister to both Jews and Gentiles. Although they had their conflicts with one another, they completely supported each other and their respective ministries. Peter confirmed as much in 2 Peter 3:14-16
Your cited scriptures do NOT support your opening assertion, nor the others you post subsequently in the above quoted post.
Under the NC, there is no Jew or Greek, male or female, slave or free. That doesn't mean they didn't exists, it means God did not give ANY of them preferential treatment of status.
Jesus said He was not sent for the world, because John 3:16 contradicts that. Jesus said He was sent only TO the lost sheep of Israel. Seems you think all those were only IN Israel, when if fact they were scattered throughout the populated world at that time.
Yet in fact, He still healed the Canaanite women, who was from the vicinity He was actually in. You may want to think about WHY He was there in Tyre and Sidon, if He was only sent for Israel?

I'm pretty sure your obligation is NOT to teach fallacious assertions and presumptions.

 

[OzSpen]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.
-
Gal 1:8 NKJV
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
-
It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.
-
Rom 2:16 NKJV
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Rom 16:25 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.
-
It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.
-
Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
-
Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
-
Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
-
Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.
-
IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.
-
It is my obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error.

Richard,

Luke 18:9-14 (ESV) refutes your position. The Gospel of justification by faith for Gentiles was preached explicitly by Jesus:

He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

So what is the 'deadly error' in this?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.

It is written in simple English. What county are you from?

It is written in simple English. What county are you from?

That is a horrible put down that is not appropriate for this Christian forum of grace and consideration. I urge you to apologise to this brother in Christ for what you stated and inferred.

Oz

 

[H. Richard]

I'm not really sure why you label preachers/teachers as religious? Are you trying to assert you are not?
The Pauline letters are consistent with all the other letters written in the NT and with the Gospels. Jesus called Paul and Peter to minister to both Jews and Gentiles. Although they had their conflicts with one another, they completely supported each other and their respective ministries. Peter confirmed as much in 2 Peter 3:14-16
Your cited scriptures do NOT support your opening assertion, nor the others you post subsequently in the above quoted post.
Under the NC, there is no Jew or Greek, male or female, slave or free. That doesn't mean they didn't exists, it means God did not give ANY of them preferential treatment of status.
Jesus said He was not sent for the world, because John 3:16 contradicts that. Jesus said He was sent only TO the lost sheep of Israel. Seems you think all those were only IN Israel, when if fact they were scattered throughout the populated world at that time.
Yet in fact, He still healed the Canaanite women, who was from the vicinity He was actually in. You may want to think about WHY He was there in Tyre and Sidon, if He was only sent for Israel?

I'm pretty sure your obligation is NOT to teach fallacious assertions and presumptions.

Stan, if people do not understand that what Jesus and the 12 (11) taught was to the Jews only and under the law, then they will never be able to see that law is not grace and grace is not law. They can not be mixed. Law is where mankind works for salvation by religious works and grace is where God has made away for mankind by His own work on the cross.

If the saying is that the Jews when into the world preaching to both Jew and Gentile then according to the scriptures that is not true.

Acts 11:19
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
NKJV

All they were preaching was that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and King. If you read Paul's letters you will find that those same Jews were trying get Paul's converts back under the Jewish law.

 

[H. Richard]

H. Richard, on 13 Dec 2015 - 3:14 PM, said:

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.

It is written in simple English. What county are you from?

H. Richard, on 13 Dec 2015 - 3:14 PM, said:

It is written in simple English. What county are you from?

That is a horrible put down that is not appropriate for this Christian forum of grace and consideration. I urge you to apologise to this brother in Christ for what you stated and inferred.

Oz

How do you see it as a put down. I was trying to see if there was a language barrier by asking where he was from.

The idea of a "put down" is in you mind only. If you have a problem with what I write state the problem without trying to put me down, okay?

 

[StanJ]

Stan, if people do not understand that what Jesus and the 12 (11) taught was to the Jews only and under the law, then they will never be able to see that law is not grace and grace is not law. They can not be mixed. Law is where mankind works for salvation by religious works and grace is where God has made away for mankind by His own work on the cross.

If the saying is that the Jews when into the world preaching to both Jew and Gentile then according to the scriptures that is not true.

Acts 11:19
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
NKJV
All they were preaching was that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and King. If you read Paul's letters you will find that those same Jews were trying get Paul's converts back under the Jewish law.

You mean if people don't agree with your interpolation? Jesus went to many places outside of Israel, so why would He do that given your perspective?
Do you believe Jews and the Lost Sheep are one and the same?
Paul letters are far more than keeping the Judeo influence OUT of Christianity, but yes that was one of his tasks for which he ran into much opposition. Your point?

 

[StanJ]

H. Richard, on 13 Dec 2015 - 3:14 PM, said:

H. Richard, on 13 Dec 2015 - 3:14 PM, said:
How do you see it as a put down. I was trying to see if there was a language barrier by asking where he was from.

The idea of a "put down" is in you mind only. If you have a problem with what I write state the problem without trying to put me down, okay?

I guess there's a lot more to Paul's admonition/instruction in 1 Thess 5:22 than many understand?
Besides I had already asked him about his grammar, if you were paying attention?

 

[OzSpen]

H. Richard, on 13 Dec 2015 - 3:14 PM, said:

H. Richard, on 13 Dec 2015 - 3:14 PM, said:
How do you see it as a put down. I was trying to see if there was a language barrier by asking where he was from.

The idea of a "put down" is in you mind only. If you have a problem with what I write state the problem without trying to put me down, okay?

Richard,

'What county are you from?' is a terrible labelling of inferiority. Where I live, there is no such concept of a county but I've lived in the USA so I know the view of county and counties that are considered low socio-economic.

Please quit your demeaning actions against a brother in Christ. What you said to him was humiliating.

Oz

 

[Phantasman]

There are many who have become anti-Pauline due to misunderstanding Paul.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.- 2 Peter 3

Some believe Paul to be Simon Magus. Acts 8

The Gospel (good news) Jesus taught is inline with what Paul taught. If one only ties in the Acts of Jesus Christ (4 Canon Gospels), then they hear a highlight of Jesus teachings. More depth of what Jesus spoke, is in the Apocryphon of James and John, as well as the sayings Gospels of Thomas.

Whether one wants to accept it or not, is a personal decision. The Canon Gospels, as well as Pauls epistles, turn back the Hebrew scriptures. The non Canon Gospel books infuse and support the Canon Gospels. They do not support the OT. For this reason, the first canon "Bible" omitted the Hebrew Scriptures due to not providing purity in content of what Jesus taught.

Read John 6 and 8 over, and over again, and you should see the frustrations Jesus experienced with the Jews belief. It was physical, and he taught spiritual. Paul taught spiritual as well. The sword Jesus said he brought, separated the physical (flesh) from the spiritual. Paul got it. The priests didn't.

 

[H. Richard]

You mean if people don't agree with your interpolation? Jesus went to many places outside of Israel, so why would He do that given your perspective?
Do you believe Jews and the Lost Sheep are one and the same?
Paul letters are far more than keeping the Judeo influence OUT of Christianity, but yes that was one of his tasks for which he ran into much opposition. Your point?

Show the scriptures that say Jesus went outside of Israel. According to the scriptures Jesus did not come to any other people outside of Israel and I will show the scriptures to prove it.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
-
Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
-
Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
-
Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8. -- But most will not believe that Matt. 10:5-7 and Matt. 15:23-24 actually means what it says.
-
In other simple words He did not come to the Gentiles. Period.

 

[tom55]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.
-
Gal 1:8 NKJV
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
-
It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.
-
Rom 2:16 NKJV
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Rom 16:25 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.
-
It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.
-
Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
-
Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
-
Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
-
Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.
-
IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.
-
It is my obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error.

This post, your belief, is not in the least bit logical.
IT IS MY OBLIGATION/BURDEN TO TRY AND MAKE YOU SEE YOUR TERRIBLE ERROR!

 

[H. Richard]

This post, your belief, is not in the least bit logical.
IT IS MY OBLIGATION/BURDEN TO TRY AND MAKE YOU SEE YOUR TERRIBLE ERROR!

I don't think I wrote your name in my post. But you seem to think what I wrote was to you. I think you, not me, have indicated that what I wrote was about you.

 

[tom55]

I don't think I wrote your name in my post. But you seem to think what I wrote was to you. I think you, not me, have indicated that what I wrote was about you.

What you wrote in that post is not logical so I responded to it.

You said you have an "obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error."

I have an obligation also. To help you to see your terrible and deadly error that I feel may send you to hell.

Why is your obligation to correct other peoples errors more important than mine?

 

[H. Richard]

What you wrote in that post is not logical so I responded to it.

You said you have an "obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error."

I have an obligation also. To help you to see your terrible and deadly error that I feel may send you to hell.

Why is your obligation to correct other peoples errors more important than mine?

I never said my trying to correct you is more important than your trying to correct me. I never said I was trying to "CORRECT" anyone. That came from you.

I said I am trying to get """ people """ to see a terrible error. (people is a group, it is not you)

Most everyone on this forum is trying to say what they believe to be the truth. It is up to the reader to search the scriptures to see if what they say stands the test of scriptures. I always give the scriptures that support what I see in them.

It has been my experience on forums that there are those that really talk about scriptures and those that are always thinking they are "CORRECTING" (your words) others. What kind of attitude is that?

 

[lforrest]

When Jesus spoke the parable of the wine skin, don't you think he was speaking about the new covenant. And if he was speaking of the new covenent, is that not under Grace?

 

[tom55]

I never said my trying to correct you is more important than your trying to correct me. I never said I was trying to "CORRECT" anyone. That came from you.

So you want "to try and make people see this terrible error" but you don't want them to correct their error? You want them to continue in error??? Interesting!!

I said I am trying to get """ people """ to see a terrible error. (people is a group, it is not you)

So I am not part of """"people""""??? Am I a animal or alien from another planet???

Most everyone on this forum is trying to say what they believe to be the truth. It is up to the reader to search the scriptures to see if what they say stands the test of scriptures. I always give the scriptures that support what I see in them.

I have read scripture and your statements do not stand the test of scripture. That is why I wrote, "This post, your belief, is not in the least bit logical". Do you want to post anything you want and not have anyone respond to it unless they agree with you???

It has been my experience on forums that there are those that really talk about scriptures and those that are always thinking they are "CORRECTING" (your words) others. What kind of attitude is that?

Jesus taught the truth. The apostles taught what Jesus taught. The followers of the apostles taught what the apostles taught; the truth! Then they taught others etc. etc.!! That has been happening for 2000 years. Some people call it apostolic succession. When one post something that is not correct or illogical they need to be corrected and given the truth. The truth didn't disappear.... it is still here and what you posted was not true!!

 

[H. Richard]

I never said my trying to correct you is more important than your trying to correct me. I never said I was trying to "CORRECT" anyone. That came from you.

So you want "to try and make people see this terrible error" but you don't want them to correct their error? You want them to continue in error??? Interesting!!

I said I am trying to get """ people """ to see a terrible error. (people is a group, it is not you)

So I am not part of """"people""""??? Am I a animal or alien from another planet???

Most everyone on this forum is trying to say what they believe to be the truth. It is up to the reader to search the scriptures to see if what they say stands the test of scriptures. I always give the scriptures that support what I see in them.

I have read scripture and your statements do not stand the test of scripture. That is why I wrote, "This post, your belief, is not in the least bit logical". Do you want to post anything you want and not have anyone respond to it unless they agree with you???

It has been my experience on forums that there are those that really talk about scriptures and those that are always thinking they are "CORRECTING" (your words) others. What kind of attitude is that?

Jesus taught the truth. The apostles taught what Jesus taught. The followers of the apostles taught what the apostles taught; the truth! Then they taught others etc. etc.!! That has been happening for 2000 years. Some people call it apostolic succession. When one post something that is not correct or illogical they need to be corrected and given the truth. The truth didn't disappear.... it is still here and what you posted was not true!!

A careful reading of the 4 gospel and the first 7 chapters of Acts tell that what Jesus and the 12 were doing is trying to get the Jews to accept Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and King.


Rom 15:8 (NKJ) 8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:


I have already given you that Jesus by His own words, did not come to the Gentiles. He only came to the House of Israel but you ignore them.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
-
Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

No where did Jesus or the 12 teach the gospel of grace as given to Paul. How could Jesus teach grace before He shed His blood on the cross. Would you care to talk about Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ) and Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)