A Common Error

[H. Richard]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.
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Gal 1:8 NKJV
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
-
It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.
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Rom 2:16 NKJV
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Rom 16:25 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.
-
It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.
-
Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
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Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
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Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
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Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.
-

IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.

Eph 3:8-13
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
NKJV

 

[ScottA]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.
-
Gal 1:8 NKJV
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
-
It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.
-
Rom 2:16 NKJV
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Rom 16:25 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.
-
It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.
-
Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
-
Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
-
Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
-
Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.
-

IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.

Eph 3:8-13
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
NKJV

EXCELLENT! This is what is meant by "rightly dividing the world of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

More importantly, this is the dividing line between the first Adam, and the Last Adam, which is to say: between the flesh and the spirit. In rightly dividing the word of truth, it is important to determine which group the passage is directed to, those who come under Christ according to the old covenant, or those who would receive the Holy Spirit (the born again of the spirit of God) that are under Christ and the new covenant. That was then, this is now.

 

[DPMartin]

what are you talking about Grace of which Noah found in God's sight is available to all who received the life Noah had and the Faith of Abraham in which all who received the same life that Abraham had can received: and now the gentiles can be grafted into the same faith.


Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.




Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



what is in error is the erroneous thinking you have Grace and Faith have been the method since Noah and Abraham. where have you been? any one born of Adam lives in sin and condemnation, then anyone born of Noah can find Grace in God's sight, then anyone born of Abraham Isaac and Jacob can by Faith walk with the Lord their God, hence by Grace through Faith the gentile maybe grafted in. according to the same Faith.

Paul's focus was the gentile whereas the 11 focused on the Jews the message to them that already had access to the faith and knew the faith of Abraham.

 

[ScottA]

what are you talking about Grace of which Noah found in God's sight is available to all who received the life Noah had and the Faith of Abraham in which all who received the same life that Abraham had can received: and now the gentiles can be grafted into the same faith.


Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.




Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



what is in error is the erroneous thinking you have Grace and Faith have been the method since Noah and Abraham. where have you been? any one born of Adam lives in sin and condemnation, then anyone born of Noah can find Grace in God's sight, then anyone born of Abraham Isaac and Jacob can by Faith walk with the Lord their God, hence by Grace through Faith the gentile maybe grafted in. according to the same Faith.

Paul's focus was the gentile whereas the 11 focused on the Jews the message to them that already had access to the faith and knew the faith of Abraham.

If i may...

I believe that the error that H.R. is referring to specifically, is the two different dispensations: The one to the descendants of Adam (the first Adam), and the other dispensation of the descendants, not of those born of the flesh, but those born again of the spirit of God (that of the Last Adam, "a life giving spirit".

So, yes, God's "grace" is evident throughout all of history...but it is only the dispensation of the spirit of God being poured out upon all (gentile) flesh that is only evident in those who are not among the chosen tribes - a grace that is given by belief in Christ alone, rather than by election.

 

[101G]

I agree with DPMartin on this. yes God grace have been through out history. under the dispensation of Grace there is no difference. this is one of the mysteries of God. Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". reason? Ephesians 1:9-15 "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; (STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT WAS JUST SAID) even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory".

now the question is this, "Who is a Jew in this dispensation?" answer, Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

in this dispensation there is neither Jew or Gentile, male or female, not in Christ Jesus. the key scripture, Ephesians 1:9-15 "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth". and lastly, no, the apostle Paul preach exactly what the Lord Jesus preached.

It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about t

if so, then the apostle Peter, one of the 11 as you said, failed the test then. as well as all the saint through out history. for this was preached afore unto Abraham, before the LAW was given. I suggest one read Hebrews chapter 11. the same FAITH of salvation in God is required today, which is the sacrifice of CHRIST, a foreshadow. supportive scripture. 1 Peter 1:6-11 "Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: (STOP, who did what? prophesied of the grace that should come unto you, this is OT prophets). Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". the prophets of the OT prophesied of the grace that should come by the sacrifice of Christ. I suggest one re-read those scripture. and it was the Lord Jesus, Spirit, GOD, the ONLY TRUE GOD who was in them prophets speaking of "HIS" GRACE, and "HIS" sacrifice on the cross that was to come, say what... yes, the Gospel is the same, then and now. only the OT is PRE dispensation salvation, Abraham, Moses to the Lord Jesus himself, the sacrifice. and the NT is POST dispensation Salvation. for all, OT and NT hope for this same salvation in FAITH, supportive scripture. Galatians 3:18 - 22 "For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe". so now, it's by FAITH in the OT, which the Law had NOTHING to do with one Salvation to inherit, nor in the NT, it was "added" for our, yes, our transgression, if we repent not, and or confess not, (see 1 John 1:9). and if one in this dispensation of GRACE do not repent, then one is looking at the prospect of hell. for our righteousness is not in the Law nor man, but in Christ Jesus, and by having his righteousness we're not subject to the Law nor anyone else who is in Christ Jesus, because it was ADDED. scripture, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers" ect... nor our works, OT, or NT, scripture, 2 Timothy 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began". GRACE WAS ALREADY GIVEN EVEN BEFORE THE OT. so how can one say it's different. did not this same GRACE apply to the OT, let's see. Romans 4:6-9 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness". FAITH, Hmmmm. Hebrews 11 again.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[H. Richard]

Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event.

 

[Helen]

Great thread...great posts... Excellent thoughts by all.

 

[ScottA]

Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event.

Paul spells out the [historical] order of things quite clearly, here:

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Willie T]

I hold that many people read that verse (Romans 10:17) blindly... not really seeing what is being said.

I submit that a warning lies within those words. It takes very little observation to see that many people, all over the world, have faith in things having nothing to do with the word of God.

I believe he is saying that people develop faith in all sorts of things because they hear them repeated over and over again. Most of us have developed a lot of this in our subconscious minds, and it influences our thinking to this day.

The message, to me, is that we are to understand this fact, and thus make sure that it really IS the word of God we are listening to..... and not something else.

You have only to look at the myriad of distorted "faith/faiths" that people staunchly defend, simply because they have repeatedly heard mistaken interpretations of the word of God. (Just because it was read to you directly from the Bible, does NOT necessarily mean the "spin" put on those words by a preacher or teacher was the actual intention of God when those words were penned.)

 

[Dcopymope]

I hold that many people read that verse (Romans 10:17) blindly... not really seeing what is being said.

I submit that a warning lies within those words. It takes very little observation to see that many people, all over the world, have faith in things having nothing to do with the word of God.

I believe he is saying that people develop faith in all sorts of things because they hear them repeated over and over again. Most of us have developed a lot of this in our subconscious minds, and it influences our thinking to this day.

The message, to me, is that we are to understand this fact, and thus make sure that it really IS the word of God we are listening to..... and not something else.

You have only to look at the myriad of distorted "faith/faiths" that people staunchly defend, simply because they have repeatedly heard mistaken interpretations of the word of God. (Just because it was read to you directly from the Bible, does NOT necessarily mean the "spin" put on those words by a preacher or teacher was the actual intention of God when those words were penned.)

There's plenty of self-proclaimed teachers on here with their own spin on scripture, some even have the nerve to claim special revelation from God, implied or otherwise.................I've learned to live my life and let them produce the rope they will hang themselves with when the time comes.

 

[FHII]

I hold that many people read that verse (Romans 10:17) blindly... not really seeing what is being said.

I submit that a warning lies within those words. It takes very little observation to see that many people, all over the world, have faith in things having nothing to do with the word of God.

I believe he is saying that people develop faith in all sorts of things because they hear them repeated over and over again. Most of us have developed a lot of this in our subconscious minds, and it influences our thinking to this day.

The message, to me, is that we are to understand this fact, and thus make sure that it really IS the word of God we are listening to..... and not something else.

You have only to look at the myriad of distorted "faith/faiths" that people staunchly defend, simply because they have repeatedly heard mistaken interpretations of the word of God. (Just because it was read to you directly from the Bible, does NOT necessarily mean the "spin" put on those words by a preacher or teacher was the actual intention of God when those words were penned.)

I agree with you because many quote that beautiful verse, but not in context. You go a few verses before that and you will see that whosoever shall call on his named shall be saved. But there are rhetirical questions after that which suggest you must hear him and you can't hear him without a preacher. And that preacher must be sent by God.

Ao its great that faith comes by hearing... Everyone loves that. But it also says you can't hear without a preacher sent by God. Not everyone loves that.

 

[Willie T]

This concept of getting focused too much on one particular, esoteric interpretation of a passage is the main reason I read a plethora of different books "about" the passages of the Bible, and don't even simply trust myself to "get it right" when reading only the Bible.

Trust me, I have heard way too many foolish and misguided people spout the bogus claim that since they read the Bible, letting The Holy Spirit interpret and teach them, that THEY have the one true answer.

Trouble is, that you can read six different people posting that claim, and.......... interestingly enough, they happen to have six different ideas of what the very same passage says. So, I should expect to be so arrogant as to believe that it is I who will be the blessed one to be graciously given the exclusively correct interpretation? Hardly!

I know that God gave us wise teachers who have studied probably a thousand times more than any of us here. And, I will trust the Spirit to lead me to glean the good meat from the bones each of them presents. I still have yet to find any of them to be all correct, or all of them, off target. From the collective knowledge of all these sources, I determine what the specific words of the Bible probably mean.

 

[pia]

There's plenty of self-proclaimed teachers on here with their own spin on scripture, some even have the nerve to claim special revelation from God, implied or otherwise.................I've learned to live my life and let them produce the rope they will hang themselves with when the time comes.

I don't believe in 'special' revelation, merely THE Revelation that Jesus IS The son of THE Living God and then going on to receiving the heavenly Promised Teacher in THE Holy Spirit.....This I firmly believe to be for whosoever believes....

 

[Dcopymope]

I don't believe in 'special' revelation, merely THE Revelation that Jesus IS The son of THE Living God and then going on to receiving the heavenly Promised Teacher in THE Holy Spirit.....This I firmly believe to be for whosoever believes....

Well you can tell that to the endless amount of date setters the world over, and to the clowns giving outlandish, absolute baloney interpretations of prophecy like the locusts in Revelation somehow being symbolic of attack helicopters................its crap like this that just makes me giggle good fashion, pure comedy relief and nothing more than that. I mean, talk about NOT letting the Bible speak for itself hey.

 

[pia]

Well you can tell that to the endless amount of date setters the world over, and to the clowns giving outlandish interpretations of prophecy like the locusts in Revelation somehow being symbolic of attack helicopters................its crap like this that just makes me giggle good fashion, pure comedy relief and nothing more than that. I mean, talk about NOT letting the Bible speak for itself hey.

For absolute sure ! I have also seen my fair share of people like that........So much for each of us helping one another to be built up in the most Holy faith, each one supplying what they are given, that we may grown in unity and purpose.....Too many destroyers out there and what the Bible describes as clouds without water...

 

[ScottA]

I hold that many people read that verse (Romans 10:17) blindly... not really seeing what is being said.

I submit that a warning lies within those words. It takes very little observation to see that many people, all over the world, have faith in things having nothing to do with the word of God.

I believe he is saying that people develop faith in all sorts of things because they hear them repeated over and over again. Most of us have developed a lot of this in our subconscious minds, and it influences our thinking to this day.

The message, to me, is that we are to understand this fact, and thus make sure that it really IS the word of God we are listening to..... and not something else.

You have only to look at the myriad of distorted "faith/faiths" that people staunchly defend, simply because they have repeatedly heard mistaken interpretations of the word of God. (Just because it was read to you directly from the Bible, does NOT necessarily mean the "spin" put on those words by a preacher or teacher was the actual intention of God when those words were penned.)

Yes, indeed - thank you!

This is the spiritual meaning of what Paul wrote about women being "silent in church." As the body of Christ...we are "the bride" - female, men and women alike. Thus, if the bride is silent, then it is [only] the word of God that is spoken in church...rather than all the "applied" mumbo jumbo that comes from many a pulpit.

Unfortunately, much of what comes from many teachers and preachers are lessons about the [object] of the passage, rather than the [subject]. My own pastor (whom I love) recently did a sermon on a passage which was about spiritual gifts, and alternatively preached on "order in the church" - on the [object] rather than even seeing the greater [subject] of the passage. This is spiritual blindness.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is the spiritual meaning of what Paul wrote about women being "silent in church." As the body of Christ...we are "the bride" - female, men and women alike. Thus, if the bride is silent, then it is [only] the word of God that is spoken in church...rather than all the "applied" mumbo jumbo that comes from many a pulpit.

hmm. i had a similar rev, but it was more about "women" as an aspect of a person, whether male or female. Applying the bride there...have to think on that one.

 

[twinc]

hmm. i had a similar rev, but it was more about "women" as an aspect of a person, whether male or female. Applying the bride there...have to think on that one.

of course it is only to be expected and accepted by God that fallen/fragmented/fallacious/fallible human nature must of course mess it/mix it up and in most cases even get it vice versa and then even go so far as to claim this individual madness and sadness as inspiration and guidance via the Holy Spirit - both scriptures and science tell us that man represents humankind whilst woman only represents womankind - twinc

 

[ScottA]

hmm. i had a similar rev, but it was more about "women" as an aspect of a person, whether male or female. Applying the bride there...have to think on that one.

Just as God refers to Himself as Father and Son (male), but is all things and not lacking any traits associated with gender either way...the church, though it is made up of males and females, is referred to as a "bride" (female). Which, spiritually defines the church as "taken out of" the man (male, whom is God by manifest gender in the creation), just as Eve was "taken out of" Adam.

 

[bbyrd009]

interesting povs, ty again guys