A Different Look at Genesis - Part 1

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Trekson

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A Different Look at Genesis

I thought it would be interesting to write about the differences of opinion regarding the division with the creationist viewpoint and a little about the theory of evolution. We all know where the evolutionists stand regarding creation and we can arrive at one logical conclusion. Their methodology of dating things is either correct or it is incorrect. As science in general is still in its infancy, I lean towards the latter or at the very least they are misunderstanding the reason why some things seem to have a longer half-life than others.

The purpose of this paper is in the spirit of Christian apologetics. Most sincere seekers of truth deserve a better answer than the trite, “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” approach. Hamm has done a pretty good job but many of his explanations seem to stretch the imagination a little too much, imo. This paper is an effort to offer a more believable train of thought in our apologetic efforts. I readily admit that this is all pure speculation, but really, aren’t they all.

Within the creationist viewpoint there are two schools of thought labeled as old-earthers and young-earthers. To summarize, old-earthers agree with the scientific dating system and look at the days of creation as very long periods of time and not literal 24 hr. days concluding that the earth is around 4 billion yrs. old, but they agree with the accuracy of the order of biblical creation and the rest of the bible. Young-earthers take a literal approach to scripture and believe the entire universe is around 6,000 yrs. old.

I am a creationist but I'm also not a "young-earther" neither am I an “old-earther”. I guess you could consider me a “tween-earther”! Both sides have merit behind their conclusions but I also believe that both sides are overlooking some other possibilities. It doesn’t have to be either one or the other. There are enough missing details to accommodate other possibilities and still stay true to the biblical order of creation. The purpose of this paper is to put forth for your consideration one of these other “possibilities”. I do not claim this is a revelation from God, just as the title proclaims, “a different way to look at Genesis.”

Sometimes we have to look at what the bible doesn't say on an issue to grasp a larger truth. Young-earthers seem to believe that God came into being and created everything in the entirety of the universe in a six 24 hour day period. This ideology makes as little sense as evolution does to me. There is another viewpoint that I believe is worth considering. I should point out that I am not a scientist or a language expert. I can’t back up my opinion with a single fact, but in reality, neither can the other viewpoints. At best they are accepted as fact by faith in God’s word or an educated guess based on scientific research, but the one thing science keeps proving is how little we really know.

Our God is eternal so could this rock we call earth have been around for more than a billion years or so before God decided to redesign it? Sure, as a creationist, I can live with that. If a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to God, could creation have taken 7000 years? I'm open to that possibility as well because we should be looking at the timing of the creation story from God’s point of view, not from man’s limited understanding. Let’s review some of the scriptures in question. Gen. 1:1-2 – “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” The word “heaven” here is singular so at most I think only our solar system should be considered. The word “create” doesn’t necessarily imply something from nothing, it can also mean re-purposed. If everything God creates is perfect in every way, then why would He create something that was without form and void? If God is light, then how could “darkness” be present? (1 John 1:5).

It makes more sense to me if I look at His creation as a piece of art. In verse 1, the artist puts everything in place, gathers all his supplies together and sets himself up to begin his creation. Verse 2 is the blank piece of paper set on an easel before the artist begins to draw. In verse 3, the artist begins his work. The focus here should be strictly on the earth and its spatial surroundings.

Gen. 1:3 – “And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” Verse 3 is problematic because in the order of creation, light comes before the sun and the moon so how could that be? How can we have a day and a night without a sun? I’m not sure if I can express this accurately but I believe it is talking about the general emotional atmosphere. In the Hebrew, the word “light” can mean happiness and the word “darkness” can mean misery. So the light and the absence of darkness can literally mean “good”! Conversely, darkness and the absence of light can mean evil at worst or the absence of good at best. So, let’s look at vs. 3 this way: The absence of good was upon the face of the earth and God created goodness that he called “light” to separate the two.

The way that the vast majority of humanity feels about darkness and light, such as, looking forward to the sunrise so the dark night will be over, goodness can be considered “sunshine and lollipops”, we have nightmares and day dreams, etc. Humanity’s preference for day time is expressed in a myriad of ways. So much so that it seems to be bred within us! How many of us when describing something bad or evil that turned into something bright and cheerful have heard or used the expression, “why it was as different as night and day?!” I realize this is only my opinion, but couldn’t it be a realistic one?

Now, let’s take a look at time. 2 Peter 3:8 – “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” Remember until the creation of Adam in vs. 27 everything was from God’s frame of reference regarding time. Now, if Peter had meant a million years then I believe he would have used that number so I have no problem with the concept of creation being six thousand years. Could He have done it in six 24 hour days? I suppose He could have but nothing in scripture implies that He was in a hurry. If we consider that a logical possibility then that brings the age of the earth up to 12,000 yrs. at least.
 
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101G

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A Different Look at Genesis

I thought it would be interesting to write about the differences of opinion regarding the division with the creationist viewpoint and a little about the theory of evolution. We all know where the evolutionists stand regarding creation and we can arrive at one logical conclusion. Their methodology of dating things is either correct or it is incorrect. As science in general is still in its infancy, I lean towards the latter or at the very least they are misunderstanding the reason why some things seem to have a longer half-life than others.

The purpose of this paper is in the spirit of Christian apologetics. Most sincere seekers of truth deserve a better answer than the trite, “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” approach. Hamm has done a pretty good job but many of his explanations seem to stretch the imagination a little too much, imo. This paper is an effort to offer a more believable train of thought in our apologetic efforts. I readily admit that this is all pure speculation, but really, aren’t they all.

Within the creationist viewpoint there are two schools of thought labeled as old-earthers and young-earthers. To summarize, old-earthers agree with the scientific dating system and look at the days of creation as very long periods of time and not literal 24 hr. days concluding that the earth is around 4 billion yrs. old, but they agree with the accuracy of the order of biblical creation and the rest of the bible. Young-earthers take a literal approach to scripture and believe the entire universe is around 6,000 yrs. old.

I am a creationist but I'm also not a "young-earther" neither am I an “old-earther”. I guess you could consider me a “tween-earther”! Both sides have merit behind their conclusions but I also believe that both sides are overlooking some other possibilities. It doesn’t have to be either one or the other. There are enough missing details to accommodate other possibilities and still stay true to the biblical order of creation. The purpose of this paper is to put forth for your consideration one of these other “possibilities”. I do not claim this is a revelation from God, just as the title proclaims, “a different way to look at Genesis.”

Sometimes we have to look at what the bible doesn't say on an issue to grasp a larger truth. Young-earthers seem to believe that God came into being and created everything in the entirety of the universe in a six 24 hour day period. This ideology makes as little sense as evolution does to me. There is another viewpoint that I believe is worth considering. I should point out that I am not a scientist or a language expert. I can’t back up my opinion with a single fact, but in reality, neither can the other viewpoints. At best they are accepted as fact by faith in God’s word or an educated guess based on scientific research, but the one thing science keeps proving is how little we really know.

Our God is eternal so could this rock we call earth have been around for more than a billion years or so before God decided to redesign it? Sure, as a creationist, I can live with that. If a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to God, could creation have taken 7000 years? I'm open to that possibility as well because we should be looking at the timing of the creation story from God’s point of view, not from man’s limited understanding. Let’s review some of the scriptures in question. Gen. 1:1-2 – “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” The word “heaven” here is singular so at most I think only our solar system should be considered. The word “create” doesn’t necessarily imply something from nothing, it can also mean re-purposed. If everything God creates is perfect in every way, then why would He create something that was without form and void? If God is light, then how could “darkness” be present? (1 John 1:5).

It makes more sense to me if I look at His creation as a piece of art. In verse 1, the artist puts everything in place, gathers all his supplies together and sets himself up to begin his creation. Verse 2 is the blank piece of paper set on an easel before the artist begins to draw. In verse 3, the artist begins his work. The focus here should be strictly on the earth and its spatial surroundings.

Gen. 1:3 – “And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” Verse 3 is problematic because in the order of creation, light comes before the sun and the moon so how could that be? How can we have a day and a night without a sun? I’m not sure if I can express this accurately but I believe it is talking about the general emotional atmosphere. In the Hebrew, the word “light” can mean happiness and the word “darkness” can mean misery. So the light and the absence of darkness can literally mean “good”! Conversely, darkness and the absence of light can mean evil at worst or the absence of good at best. So, let’s look at vs. 3 this way: The absence of good was upon the face of the earth and God created goodness that he called “light” to separate the two.

The way that the vast majority of humanity feels about darkness and light, such as, looking forward to the sunrise so the dark night will be over, goodness can be considered “sunshine and lollipops”, we have nightmares and day dreams, etc. Humanity’s preference for day time is expressed in a myriad of ways. So much so that it seems to be bred within us! How many of us when describing something bad or evil that turned into something bright and cheerful have heard or used the expression, “why it was as different as night and day?!” I realize this is only my opinion, but couldn’t it be a realistic one?

Now, let’s take a look at time. 2 Peter 3:8 – “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” Remember until the creation of Adam in vs. 27 everything was from God’s frame of reference regarding time. Now, if Peter had meant a million years then I believe he would have used that number so I have no problem with the concept of creation being six thousand years. Could He have done it in six 24 hour days? I suppose He could have but nothing in scripture implies that He was in a hurry. If we consider that a logical possibility then that brings the age of the earth up to 12,000 yrs. at least.

Now let’s focus on what happened after God created Adam.
For example, young-earthers want to believe that when God created Adam, after His day of rest, He created Eve and they woke up the next morning and went straight to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, the bible doesn't say that! Gen. 1:24-31 gives us an outline of the sixth day of creation. In Gen. 2:1-20, the bible goes into a little more detail about the 6th day. When discussing the time of creation, the bible uses the word “generations” in Gen. 2:4, I think the usage of that word, implies a longer period of time then six 24 hour days but a day of a thousand years, in my opinion, makes a lot more sense. I also think that the last phrase of Gen. 2:5 – “…and there was not a man to till the ground ” implies a longer time than a single day as the plant life God created needed time to expand and grow. When God created the fish, fowl and animals, I believe he created more than two of each. I think the whole earth was teeming with life all being fruitful, and multiplying before Adam was made.
First Good post.
second, I'm a creationist from a TRUE scienctific viewpoint. and I'm an Old Earth believer, meaning the earth is way old that the 6,000 years many believe.

Third, I don't believe in evolution of man. but I do believe in Microevolution of animals, but not Macroevolution of the species of animals.

fourth, I'm not a believer of a 24hr, literal six day (solar) creation. and true, "Sometimes we have to look at what the bible doesn't say on an issue to grasp a larger truth". example, the bible do not say how long Adam and Eve was in the Garden before they sinned. and also, the rocks themselves don't know how old they are either.


fifth, to me, the "Light" in Gen 1:3 is wisdom, not natural ligh, or solar light, nor is the term "day" a 24hr, solar day. but events.

sixth, I believe Adam, the Man, (neither male nor female), was formed on day 3. and was created, made into MALE and FEMALE on day 6.

Seventh, "Generations" is an order to thing, or events in history.
Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens".

here we have generations of the heavens and of the earth within a "DAY", not Days, meaning more than one day.

so we have GENERATIONS within one DAY. if this is time, then one must confess that the earth is older than 6,000 years old.

But me, I believe these generation are history of events, history meaning something already dome, and NOT how long ago.
 

CoreIssue

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="Trekson, post: 486569, member: 5028"]A Different Look at Genesis

Within the creationist viewpoint there are two schools of thought labeled as old-earthers and young-earthers. To summarize, old-earthers agree with the scientific dating system and look at the days of creation as very long periods of time and not literal 24 hr. days concluding that the earth is around 4 billion yrs. old, but they agree with the accuracy of the order of biblical creation and the rest of the bible.

I am an old earther.

What you're misstating is the length of a day. Science has proven over time rotation of the earth slows the days get longer, which is still going on today. They have to adjust the international atomic clock periodically to compensate.

Young-earthers take a literal approach to scripture and believe the entire universe is around 6,000 yrs. old.

Even younger earthers are changing from the 6000 year position. Many now say 10,000 years.

I am a creationist but I'm also not a "young-earther" neither am I an “old-earther”. I guess you could consider me a “tween-earther”! Both sides have merit behind their conclusions but I also believe that both sides are overlooking some other possibilities.

Some old earthers do not go with millions of years. So don't lump us all together.

Sometimes we have to look at what the bible doesn't say on an issue to grasp a larger truth.
Young-earthers seem to believe that God came into being

They do not believe God came into existence. They believe he is eternal.

and created everything in the entirety of the universe in a six 24 hour day period. This ideology makes as little sense as evolution does to me. There is another viewpoint that I believe is worth considering. I should point out that I am not a scientist or a language expert. I can’t back up my opinion with a single fact, but in reality, neither can the other viewpoints. At best they are accepted as fact by faith in God’s word or an educated guess based on scientific research, but the one thing science keeps proving is how little we really know.

Our God is eternal so could this rock we call earth have been around for more than a billion years or so before God decided to redesign it? Sure, as a creationist, I can live with that. If a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to God, could creation have taken 7000 years? I'm open to that possibility as well because we should be looking at the timing of the creation story from God’s point of view, not from man’s limited understanding. Let’s review some of the scriptures in question.
Gen. 1:1-2 – “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

KJV error. The correct word is became, not was.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” The word “heaven” here is singular so at most I think only our solar system should be considered.

Three heavens. First heaven is our atmosphere. Second is outerspace. Third is dwelling place of God.

The word “create” doesn’t necessarily imply something from nothing, it can also mean repurposed. If everything God creates is perfect in every way, then why would He create something that was without form and void?
If God is light, then how could “darkness” be present? (1 John 1:5).

Because he created it is a cloak to remove Satan in the following angels from his vision

It makes more sense to me if I look at His creation as a piece of art. In verse 1, the artist puts everything in place, gathers all his supplies together and sets himself up to begin his creation. Verse 2 is the blank piece of paper set on an easel before the artist begins to draw. In verse 3, the artist begins his work. The focus here should be strictly on the earth and its spatial surroundings.

Verse one says he created, not begin creating.

What he created was rendered shapeless and void by the war in heaven.

Gen. 1:3 – “And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” Verse 3 is problematic because in the order of creation, light comes before the sun and the moon so how could that be? How can we have a day and a night without a sun? I’m not sure if I can express this accurately but I believe it is talking about the general emotional atmosphere. In the Hebrew, the word “light” can mean happiness and the word “darkness” can mean misery. So the light and the absence of darkness can literally mean “good”! Conversely, darkness and the absence of light can mean evil at worst or the absence of good at best. So, let’s look at vs. 3 this way: The absence of good was upon the face of the earth and God created goodness that he called “light” to separate the two.

Light was always already there. He gathered the light to make the sun and stars.

The way that the vast majority of humanity feels about darkness and light, such as, looking forward to the sunrise so the dark night will be over, goodness can be considered “sunshine and lollipops”, we have nightmares and day dreams, etc. Humanity’s preference for day time is expressed in a myriad of ways. So much so that it seems to be bred within us! How many of us when describing something bad or evil that turned into something bright and cheerful have heard or used the expression, “why it was as different as night and day?!” I realize this is only my opinion, but couldn’t it be a realistic one?

Now, let’s take a look at time. 2 Peter 3:8 – “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” Remember until the creation of Adam in vs. 27 everything was from God’s frame of reference regarding time. Now, if Peter had meant a million years then I believe he would have used that number so I have no problem with the concept of creation being six thousand years. Could He have done it in six 24 hour days? I suppose He could have but nothing in scripture implies that He was in a hurry. If we consider that a logical possibility then that brings the age of the earth up to 12,000 yrs. at least.

Now let’s focus on what happened after God created Adam.
For example, young-earthers want to believe that when God created Adam, after His day of rest, He created Eve and they woke up the next morning and went straight to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, the bible doesn't say that! Gen. 1:24-31 gives us an outline of the sixth day of creation. In Gen. 2:1-20, the bible goes into a little more detail about the 6th day. When discussing the time of creation, the bible uses the word “generations” in Gen. 2:4, I think the usage of that word, implies a longer period of time then six 24 hour days but a day of a thousand years, in my opinion, makes a lot more sense. I also think that the last phrase of Gen. 2:5 – “…and there was not a man to till the ground ” implies a longer time than a single day as the plant life God created needed time to expand and grow. When God created the fish, fowl and animals, I believe he created more than two of each. I think the whole earth was teeming with life all being fruitful, and multiplying before Adam was made.[/QUOTE]
 

101G

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Gen. 1:1-2 – “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
KJV error. The correct word is became, not was.
I must disagree with that assessment. how did the earth "become" without Form?
 

CoreIssue

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Gen. 1:1-2 – “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
KJV error. The correct word is became, not was.
I must disagree with that assessment. how did the earth "become" without Form?


Protest as you will. Go to an interlinear and check out the Hebrew word.
Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance
 

101G

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Protest as you will. Go to an interlinear and check out the Hebrew word.
Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance
I did go there, I didn't see "become"

Interlinear Bible Genesis 1:2
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

KJV,
Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 

Enoch111

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KJV error. The correct word is became, not was.
The Hebrew word הָיְתָ֥ה (hā-yə-ṯāh) can be translated as either *became* or *was*, but each and every English translation says *was*, because that is the correct word in this verse.

1. First of all THERE IS NO GAP between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Why? Because the Ten Commandments do not allow anyone to insert a gap where there is none. See Exodus 20:11.

2. What we are being told is that just as a lump of clay is formless and empty before a sculpture is produced, the earth was formless and empty before God began His work of creation. It was just a globular mass covered with water.

3. The whole fantasy about a *pre-Adamite earth* contradicts the Gospel and the Bible. It is only through Adam that sin and death entered into this world. See Romans 5:12 and following.
 

101G

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The Hebrew word הָיְתָ֥ה (hā-yə-ṯāh) can be translated as either *became* or *was*, but each and every English translation says *was*, because that is the correct word in this verse.

but wouldn't that depend on "CONTEXT". because this same word is used in
Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you".

God never "become".

H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v.
1. to exist.
2. to be or become.
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).

and two was not the Earth fit for life, but just has not developed yet? scripture
Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else".

"to be" is not yet.
 

CoreIssue

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The first part of this post has been revised.

Two things:

When you update something that's been up for a while you should colorcode what you change.

As an old earth or I do not agree with the scientific method of dating things. I am fully aware of how something less than 100 years old can appear to be many thousands of years old.
 

CoreIssue

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The Hebrew word הָיְתָ֥ה (hā-yə-ṯāh) can be translated as either *became* or *was*, but each and every English translation says *was*, because that is the correct word in this verse.

1. First of all THERE IS NO GAP between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Why? Because the Ten Commandments do not allow anyone to insert a gap where there is none. See Exodus 20:11.

2. What we are being told is that just as a lump of clay is formless and empty before a sculpture is produced, the earth was formless and empty before God began His work of creation. It was just a globular mass covered with water.

3. The whole fantasy about a *pre-Adamite earth* contradicts the Gospel and the Bible. It is only through Adam that sin and death entered into this world. See Romans 5:12 and following.

Better read the definition again. The use of was in it shows what it became, not that it always was.
 

Trekson

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Two things:

When you update something that's been up for a while you should colorcode what you change.

As an old earth or I do not agree with the scientific method of dating things. I am fully aware of how something less than 100 years old can appear to be many thousands of years old.
Sorry, I don't know how to do that.
 

CoreIssue

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Sorry, I don't know how to do that.

Lower left hand corner of the page. So which to default style.

Then you can highlight words, click the circle icon that is half white and have black, pick a color and click it. The fonts will change to that color.
 

Trekson

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Lower left hand corner of the page. So which to default style.

Then you can highlight words, click the circle icon that is half white and have black, pick a color and click it. The fonts will change to that color.
Done, thanks.
 
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Jay Ross

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Done, thanks.

Probably, a better method is to simply copy the post that needs updating and then editing the changes that you want, highlighting the changed text that has been added, and highlighting the text. Where you wish to delete text, put that text into a quote box, and noting within that quote box that the included text within the quote box has now been deleted from your original post. The text being shown as being deleted with the quote box can also be highlighted as a light grey.

This edited post should then be posted with a reference that the previous post N° ### has been reworked

That way when a person is quoting your updated/reworked post, only the latest post minus the deletions will be quoted.

Doing the above demonstrates an edit trail that can be verified without any alteration to the original post.

This is just a suggestion as to how previous/ old posts can be reworked with integrity.

Shalom
 

Trekson

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Probably, a better method is to simply copy the post that needs updating and then editing the changes that you want, highlighting the changed text that has been added, and highlighting the text. Where you wish to delete text, put that text into a quote box, and noting within that quote box that the included text within the quote box has now been deleted from your original post. The text being shown as being deleted with the quote box can also be highlighted as a light grey.

This edited post should then be posted with a reference that the previous post N° ### has been reworked

That way when a person is quoting your updated/reworked post, only the latest post minus the deletions will be quoted.

Doing the above demonstrates an edit trail that can be verified without any alteration to the original post.

This is just a suggestion as to how previous/ old posts can be reworked with integrity.

Shalom
It sounds complicated but thks for the info.