A Fair Trial On Judgment Day?

[Stumpmaster]

If, as one school of thought has it, God has sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, are those whom He hasn't chosen to come to faith by hearing His Word, going to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Surely it is not fair for God to condemn sinners just on the basis that He has not chosen them for salvation. Therefore the question must be asked "Is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgment of God?"

If whomever never acknowledges Christ as their Saviour and is capable only of wickedness and sin because God has created and predetermined them to do so, how is it possible for them to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Can any reprobate or unregenerate person who never comes to Christ justly claim that God never provided them with the means or opportunity to be redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?
reprobate
(ˈrɛprəʊˌbeɪt)
adj
1. morally unprincipled; depraved
2. (Theology) Christianity destined or condemned to eternal punishment in hell
n
3. an unprincipled, depraved, or damned person
4. a disreputable or roguish person: the old reprobate.
vb (tr)
5. to disapprove of; condemn
6. (Theology) (of God) to destine, consign, or condemn to eternal punishment in hell
[C16: from Late Latin reprobātus held in disfavour, from Latin re- + probāre to approve1]
reprobacy n
ˈreproˌbater n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

 

[kcnalp]

If, as one school of thought has it, God has sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, are those whom He hasn't chosen to come to faith by hearing His Word, going to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Surely it is not fair for God to condemn sinners just on the basis that He has not chosen them for salvation. Therefore the question must be asked "Is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgment of God?"

If whomever never acknowledges Christ as their Saviour and is capable only of wickedness and sin because God has created and predetermined them to do so, how is it possible for them to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Can any reprobate or unregenerate person who never comes to Christ justly claim that God never provided them with the means or opportunity to be redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?
reprobate
(ˈrɛprəʊˌbeɪt)
adj
1. morally unprincipled; depraved
2. (Theology) Christianity destined or condemned to eternal punishment in hell
n
3. an unprincipled, depraved, or damned person
4. a disreputable or roguish person: the old reprobate.
vb (tr)
5. to disapprove of; condemn
6. (Theology) (of God) to destine, consign, or condemn to eternal punishment in hell
[C16: from Late Latin reprobātus held in disfavour, from Latin re- + probāre to approve1]
reprobacy n
ˈreproˌbater n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

 

[101G]

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

so how can a man, or his wisdom, man wisdom determined "whosoever?". well that school of thought by man is mute.

PICJAG.

 

[Taken]

If, as one school of thought has it, God has sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, are those whom He hasn't chosen to come to faith by hearing His Word, going to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

God has the knowledge of "predestiny"?
Yes.
God "pre-determines" ?
Yes.
God is all-knowing.
Man is not.

It's a matter of God knowing BEFORE a man Freely Chooses TO Decide and Effect "his own will".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

If, as one school of thought has it, God has sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, are those whom He hasn't chosen to come to faith by hearing His Word, going to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Surely it is not fair for God to condemn sinners just on the basis that He has not chosen them for salvation. Therefore the question must be asked "Is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgment of God?"

If whomever never acknowledges Christ as their Saviour and is capable only of wickedness and sin because God has created and predetermined them to do so, how is it possible for them to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Can any reprobate or unregenerate person who never comes to Christ justly claim that God never provided them with the means or opportunity to be redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?
reprobate
(ˈrɛprəʊˌbeɪt)
adj
1. morally unprincipled; depraved
2. (Theology) Christianity destined or condemned to eternal punishment in hell
n
3. an unprincipled, depraved, or damned person
4. a disreputable or roguish person: the old reprobate.
vb (tr)
5. to disapprove of; condemn
6. (Theology) (of God) to destine, consign, or condemn to eternal punishment in hell
[C16: from Late Latin reprobātus held in disfavour, from Latin re- + probāre to approve1]
reprobacy n
ˈreproˌbater n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

"If, as one school of thought has it, God has sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, are those whom He hasn't chosen to come to faith by hearing His Word, going to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?" Nope. Not if one believes this way...although it does not change the truth. Some say God is not fair but just...if one is Just as He is...how can He not be fair?

"Is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgment of God?" <--- No in this sisters book it isn't.

"If whomever never acknowledges Christ as their Saviour and is capable only of wickedness and sin because God has created and predetermined them to do so, how is it possible for them to get a fair trial on Judgment Day? " <--- It is impossible.

"Can any reprobate or unregenerate person who never comes to Christ justly claim that God never provided them with the means or opportunity to be redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?" <---IMHO...yes.

Good questions

 

[marks]

Can any reprobate or unregenerate person who never comes to Christ justly claim that God never provided them with the means or opportunity to be redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?

Whether they do or not, could we say that God is on the hook to offer salvation to all?

Now, I think that God does in fact offer salvation to all, but answering your OP . . .

If the sinner is judged by God for their sins, is that fair, does He have that right? And if God only allows the living into His kingdom, is that fair, does He have that right?

Predetermined Reprobation

Is this a meaningful term? Did God predetermine man's sin? It seems to me that we can only say that someone is predetermined to be reprobate if they were predetermined to sin, since reprobation is the fruit of sinfulness.

Much love!

 

[Stumpmaster]

Thanks to all who commented. This has been a subject of interest to me for many years now since coming across something of a fan base for Judas Iscariot who was being exalted as a hero on the basis that he had no choice but to betray Jesus, having been predestined by God to do so.

Is this a meaningful term? Did God predetermine man's sin? It seems to me that we can only say that someone is predetermined to be reprobate if they were predetermined to sin, since reprobation is the fruit of sinfulness.

Hi marks,
Thanks for your reply here. I believe the term "Predetermined Reprobation" is a useful one. Some time ago I found it being used by some commentators whilst I was researching Reformed and Calvinist Doctrine. If the cap fits wear it, so the proverb goes, and within the confines of Calvinism the doctrines of predestination and reprobation are inseparable, as per the following:

Quote From Wkpd on Reprobation

Reprobation, in Christian theology, is a doctrine of the Bible found in many passages of scripture such as Romans 1:20-28, Proverbs 1:23-33, John 12:37-41, Hebrews 6:4-8 etc. which teaches that a person can reject the gospel to a point where God in turn rejects them and curses their conscience to do unnatural and abominable things. In Calvinist doctrine, the reprobate are those Christ rejected before the world began. The English word reprobate is from the Latin root probare (English: prove, test), and thus derived from the Latin, reprobatus (reproved, condemned), the opposite of approbatus (commended, approved).

When a sinner is so hardened as to feel no remorse or misgiving of conscience, it is considered a sign of reprobation. This isn’t teaching that because of their wicked actions that God will not save them, but that God has withdrawn his offer of salvation and he gives them over to a seared conscience and now they can do vile actions. The vile actions and the many different things are evidence of a reprobate mind.

Contents

• 1Calvinistic doctrine
• 2External links
  • 2.1Pro
  • 2.2Con

Calvinistic doctrine[edit]
See also: Predestination (Calvinism)

• As stated in the Canons of Dordrecht, First Head (Chapter 1) Article 15 [1]:

Moreover, Holy Scripture most especially highlights this eternal and undeserved grace of our election and brings it out more clearly for us, in that it further bears witness that not all people have been chosen but that some have not been chosen or have been passed by in God's eternal election-- those, that is, concerning whom God, on the basis of his entirely free, most just, irreproachable, and unchangeable good pleasure, made the following decision: to leave them in the common misery into which, by their own fault, they have plunged themselves; not to grant them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but finally to condemn and eternally punish them (having been left in their own ways and under his just judgment), not only for their unbelief but also for all their other sins, in order to display his justice. And this is the decision of reprobation, which does not at all make God the author of sin, but rather its fearful, irreproachable, just judge and avenger.

• As explained by Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (Eerdmans, 1932):

The doctrine of absolute Predestination of course logically holds that some are foreordained to death as truly as others are foreordained to life. The very terms “elect” and “election” imply the terms “non-elect” and “reprobation.” When some are chosen out others are left not chosen. The high privileges and glorious destiny of the former are not shared with the latter. This, too, is of God. We believe that from all eternity God has intended to leave some of Adam’s posterity in their sins, and that the decisive factor in the life of each is to be found only in God’s will. As Mozley has said, the whole race after the fall was “one mass of perdition,” and “it pleased God of His sovereign mercy to rescue some and to leave others where they were; to raise some to glory, giving them such grace as necessarily qualified them for it, and abandon the rest, from whom He withheld such grace, to eternal punishment.” In all of the Reformed creeds in which the doctrine of reprobation is dealt with at all it is treated as an essential part of the doctrine of predestination. The Westminster Confession, after stating the doctrine of election, adds: “The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the inscrutable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.”

 

[Scoot]

Surely it is not fair for God to condemn sinners just on the basis that He has not chosen them for salvation. Therefore the question must be asked "Is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgment of God?"

The question I have here is "Righteous and Fair by who's standards"?

Personally - I do not hold that people have no choice. Rather I believe that people do have a free choice, and that they are without excuse because the evidence for God's existence is throughout all creation. (Romans 1:20).

However -in saying that - I think as humans we run the risk in thinking that God should work by our standards, and the bible addresses that. God obviously moves men's hearts as He see's fit as well. Is that fair?

Romans 9:18-20 Says

Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens. You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will? No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me this way?​

So while I am left to understand that we have free will, and we can accept or reject Christ. I am also left more convinced that if I am wrong - and the doctrine which I do not agree with (Calvinism) is correct - it does not change that God is righteous and judges correctly. Rather it means that I am wrong - and my understanding of what is fair and righteous is in error, and not God.

So the question:

"So is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgement of God"​

...really is looking at the wrong end of the stick to be looking at. The question is really asking...

"So is the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation compatible with the righteous and fair judgement of God - in our own eyes", ​

because the original question makes us judge and decision makers over what is fair and right, not God.

So - I think the greater concern and focus here really should be:

"am I willing to yield and consider that God is fair and righteous even if He's standards differ to mine or I am wrong?"​

There's too many good people on both sides of this debate for me to even remotely consider that I have the capability to judge correctly on this matter.

Rather I fall on my knees and cry out to God for mercy - because I know predestination or sovereign choice - either way - I am incapable of making the right choice if He does not lead me in the right direction and I cry out for mercy and guidance to the only one who can save.

 

[Philip James]

Who can argue with Jesus' judgements?