A Great sinner

[Behold]

-
Simon a Pharisee once invited Jesus to dinner.
Jesus accepted the invitation
AS they were found discussing many topics...... a woman, defined by the KJV as a Great sinner, and in the "Now" Translation as a Whore/Prostitute.., came into the room were Jesus and Simon were reclining,...... as this is the tradition in that day, that you reclined while you ate, and conversed.
Simon knew this girl was a whore/Prostitute.... and He was "freaked out", as he watched her anoint Jesus with very expensive perfume and then wipe his feet with her hair...etc.

Jesus knew what He was thinking, as God knows our thoughts, and He asked Simon a question, by teaching him a parable.

I'll paraphrase...

"2 men owned a banker money. One owed the banker $50 and one owed the banker $500.
The banker understood that neither could pay back the loan, and so the banker, in an act of kindness, forgive both men their debt.
Jesus asked Simon the Pharisee......"which man do you say would LOVE the banker more for this kindness"?
Simon replied...."i suppose the one who was forgiven = the larger debt".
"Correct, said Jesus".....and this woman you see who is anointing me is a great sinner who has been forgiven much".

And what is interesting is that she was worshiping Jesus with her love, because she was already forgiven. She didnt come there to be forgiven... She came there to worship the Holy One who had, at some point previously, already forgiven her of her sin.
------

Now, how does this verse explain and define the difference between being a born again "good" disciple ...vs being a born again "Magnificent" disciple of Christ,.... as both are disciples?

Its like this Saint...
When you realize and believe that ALL your sin is forgiven by Christ's Blood and death and resurrection, vs, only believing that some is forgiven... (Past sin)...just those from your age of accountability to the day you were saved, but not beyond.... you will behave differently toward the Lord and God, depending on how you realize the truth regarding the Blood Atonement's eternal result.

See, if you realize that ALL your sin is that $500, you will behave exactly as Jesus defined the greater debt being forgiven, You will LOVE JESUS MORE, and your discipleship will be powerful and holy.
Thats a FACT.

If however, you do not understand or believe that all your sin is forgiven, and you are trying to deal with your sin by the effort of FLESH, ...you are the $50 believer, and you will not love Jesus as much and you will not be able to serve Your Lord with a perfected discipleship.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now, when we come to the Lord in contrition of heart and seek Him for greater sanctification, by confessing our sins...I believe that this will avail with God.

As believers in Christ, we stand justified before a holy God...our sins are forgiven and our position in Christ is that we are without sin before the Father...because He sees the righteousness and blood, and perfect life, of Jesus Christ when He looks at us.

But in the practical sense, the Holy Spirit deals with our sins by pinpointing them to us so that we can confess them and receive the holiness of the Lord concerning them.

Our confessing our sins is the same as walking in the light.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I believe therefore that the key to reading @Behold's threads is to compare what he is saying to the three verses above and to consider whether and how he is contradicting them in any way.

You can be sure that for the most part any one of his threads will seek to annihilate one or more of these three verses in some way, shape, or form.

In this, he is guilty of teaching the omission of certain scripture from the Holy Bible and will be judged by what it says in Revelation 22:19 (kjv).

Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Behold]

As believers in Christ, we stand justified before a holy God...our sins are forgiven and our position in Christ is that we are without sin before the Father...because He sees the righteousness and blood, and perfect life, of Jesus Christ when He looks at us.

Thank you for finally re-stating what ive been telling you for a month.
Good job.
Now, if you will just believe it instead of contradicting it with other verses, as you always do, you can start to lose your sin consciousness and that "indwelling sin" issue that plagues your discipleship will not continue to ruin your walk of faith.

 

[Episkopos]

-
Simon a Pharisee once invited Jesus to dinner.
Jesus accepted the invitation
AS they were found discussing many topics...... a woman, defined by the KJV as a Great sinner, and in the "Now" Translation as a Whore/Prostitute.., came into the room were Jesus and Simon were reclining,...... as this is the tradition in that day, that you reclined while you ate, and conversed.
Simon knew this girl was a whore/Prostitute.... and He was "freaked out", as he watched her anoint Jesus with very expensive perfume and then wipe his feet with her hair...etc.

Jesus knew what He was thinking, as God knows our thoughts, and He asked Simon a question, by teaching him a parable.

I'll paraphrase...

"2 men owned a banker money. One owed the banker $50 and one owed the banker $500.
The banker understood that neither could pay back the loan, and so the banker, in an act of kindness, forgive both men their debt.
Jesus asked Simon the Pharisee......"which man do you say would LOVE the banker more for this kindness"?
Simon replied...."i suppose the one who was forgiven = the larger debt".
"Correct, said Jesus".....and this woman you see who is anointing me is a great sinner who has been forgiven much".

And what is interesting is that she was worshiping Jesus with her love, because she was already forgiven. She didnt come there to be forgiven... She came there to worship the Holy One who had, at some point previously, already forgiven her of her sin.
------

Now, how does this verse explain and define the difference between being a born again "good" disciple ...vs being a born again "Magnificent" disciple of Christ,.... as both are disciples?

Its like this Saint...
When you realize and believe that ALL your sin is forgiven by Christ's Blood and death and resurrection, vs, only believing that some is forgiven... (Past sin)...just those from your age of accountability to the day you were saved, but not beyond.... you will behave differently toward the Lord and God, depending on how you realize the truth regarding the Blood Atonement's eternal result.

See, if you realize that ALL your sin is that $500, you will behave exactly as Jesus defined the greater debt being forgiven, You will LOVE JESUS MORE, and your discipleship will be powerful and holy.
Thats a FACT.

If however, you do not understand or believe that all your sin is forgiven, and you are trying to deal with your sin by the effort of FLESH, ...you are the $50 believer, and you will not love Jesus as much and you will not be able to serve Your Lord with a perfected discipleship.

Completely false. You don't kill the flesh by pampering it. God does not appease the ego. That's what the devil does. And in your case it is working.

And in the REAL parable the servant who didn't forgive the debt of another had his own forgiveness taken away. God's forgiveness IS conditional.

Learn something before you try teaching falsehoods.

In the OT people needed their sins forgiven.

But in the NT is the grace to forsake sin....to be pure as He is pure...by abiding in Him. (but not in the make-believe way you espouse)

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you for finally re-stating what ive been telling you for a month.

I have not suddenly changed my pov here.

My statement is qualified by the understanding that the Holy Spirit's relationship is different to us than that of the Father.

For He deals with us on the basis of our sins. It is His job to convict us of sin and righteousness and of judgment. He is the light that is shed forth that reveals to us that we are sinners.

He does this so that we can bring our sins before His throne room and leave them at the Cross.

In confessing our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

And, how is it that you have not yet answered my request in the following post?

@Behold, would you expound the following:

 

[MattMooradian]

If however, you do not understand or believe that all your sin is forgiven, and you are trying to deal with your sin by the effort of FLESH

This raises a question for me. Believing that I am pure (all my sins are forgiven, now and forever) is a mysterious truth of Jesus' blood sacrifice. Yes. But, I keep reading about this "effort" thing being misguided. If I pray for God to help me overcome some recurrent sin, and then I become aware that I am being tempted, should I put effort into avoiding that sin or should I just do what comes naturally? I am opposed to doing what comes naturally (not using effort), because the natural inclination of my flesh is to sin, again and again. Not sinning takes focus, reminders (i.e., prayers), reminders in thought that I want to avoid such a sin, that it is pleasing to God that I not sin, that sin is detrimental to me in eternity, etc. Even praying for God to help me avoid such a sin is me putting effort in prayer. What's the problem with "effort"?

 

[Episkopos]

This raises a question for me. Believing that I am pure (all my sins are forgiven, now and forever) is a mysterious truth of Jesus' blood sacrifice. Yes. But, I keep reading about this "effort" thing being misguided. If I pray for God to help me overcome some recurrent sin, and then I become aware that I am being tempted, should I put effort into avoiding that sin or should I just do what comes naturally? I am opposed to doing what comes naturally (not using effort), because the natural inclination of my flesh is to sin, again and again. Not sinning takes focus, reminders (i.e., prayers), reminders in thought that I want to avoid such a sin, that it is pleasing to God that I not sin, that sin is detrimental to me in eternity, etc. Even praying for God to help me avoid such a sin is me putting effort in prayer. What's the problem with "effort"?

Behold believes resisting sin by a human effort is WORSE than sinning. He thinks that because he considers grace as a license to sin....licentiousness...any effort against sin is a bigger sin. In his warped logic he is afraid to go against his own false understanding of grace. So then a non-believer is MORE careful to not sin than a false Christian who now thinks all his sins are taken care of in advance.

So the devil says...don't worry be happy...and sin away...because you are under false grace.

Leprosy is a disease where you are falling apart because you don't feel pain. So a rat could eat your toes off in your sleep and you wouldn't know it. because you feel no pain. Pain is good if it preserves the body.

So the Behold is a perfect example of a spiritual leper. He is immune from the truth so he will just go deeper and deeper into sin. But not physical sins...but spiritual sins...deeper sins that would make even the Pharisees blush.

 

[marks]

Behold believes resisting sin by a human effort is WORSE than sinning. He thinks that because he considers grace as a license to sin....licentiousness...any effort against sin is a bigger sin. In his warped logic he is afraid to go against his own false understanding of grace. So then a non-believer is MORE careful to not sin than a false Christian who now thinks all his sins are taken care of in advance.

So the devil says...don't worry be happy...and sin away...because you are under false grace.

It doesn't seem that you are able to correctly restate @Behold 's POV. Or if you are, you choose not to.

How can you argue against his POV if you don't understand it?

 

[Episkopos]

It doesn't seem that you are able to correctly restate @Behold 's POV. Or if you are, you choose not to.

How can you argue against his POV if you don't understand it?

It's easy to understand Behold's position. Just take a carnal man and recite spiritual verses to him. Then make him to believe there is a fantasy world whereby one can claim all the good sounding verses while ignoring all the other verses that go against a carnal preference.

Et voila...the exact position of Behold...and basically yourself too. Although I think some of Beholds views also make you blush at times. (But then he would make Pharisees blush)

Right believing for salvation...or saving knowledge= Gnosticism....a pernicious heresy that condemns believers in it to outer darkness forever.

 

[Nancy]

Completely false. You don't kill the flesh by pampering it. God does not appease the ego. That's what the devil does. And in your case it is working.

And in the REAL parable the servant who didn't forgive the debt of another had his own forgiveness taken away. God's forgiveness IS conditional.

Learn something before you try teaching falsehoods.

In the OT people needed their sins forgiven.

But in the NT is the grace to forsake sin....to be pure as He is pure...by abiding in Him. (but not in the make-believe way you espouse)

Amen...one thing God will never feed is our flesh. And yes, I agree that there are conditions to His forgiveness but, all the verses I had listed in a previous post, were not properly addressed, some not at all.

 

[marks]

It's easy to understand Behold's position. Just take a carnal man and recite spiritual verses to him. Then make him to believe there is a fantasy world whereby one can claim all the good sounding verses while ignoring all the other verses that go against a carnal preference.

Et voila...the exact position of Behold...and basically yourself too. Although I think some of Beholds views also make you blush at times. (But then he would make Pharisees blush)

Right believing for salvation...or saving knowledge= Gnosticism....a pernicious heresy that condemns believers in it to outer darkness forever.

This in no wise demonstrates that you actaully understand what he's saying. Or me, for that matter.

I believe that I am able to restate your basic views with fairness though I don't see things the same way.

But instead of showing you actually understand, you ridicule, and ascribe what others Have Not actually said.

It makes me wonder . . . if you do understand his, or my views, why then would you not refute them with Scripture, instead of piling on more ridicule?

?

 

[Behold]

This raises a question for me. Believing that I am pure (all my sins are forgiven, now and forever) is a mysterious truth of Jesus' blood sacrifice. Yes. But, I keep reading about this "effort" thing being misguided. If I pray for God to help me overcome some recurrent sin, and then I become aware that I am being tempted, should I put effort into avoiding that sin or should I just do what comes naturally? I am opposed to doing what comes naturally (not using effort), because the natural inclination of my flesh is to sin, again and again. Not sinning takes focus, reminders (i.e., prayers), reminders in thought that I want to avoid such a sin, that it is pleasing to God that I not sin, that sin is detrimental to me in eternity, etc. Even praying for God to help me avoid such a sin is me putting effort in prayer. What's the problem with "effort"?

Matt,


i wrote a Thread for you.

go here..

How to have the right Mind

 

[Episkopos]

Being free from sin-consciousness is spiritual leprosy. A terrible wasting disease. A spiritual leprosy is an eternal outcast destiny. We need to be conscious of our sins to preserve our lives in reality. We need an actual victory over sin itself...not a victory over sin-consciousness.

 

[Behold]

Being free from sin-consciousness is spiritual leprosy. A terrible wasting disease. A spiritual leprosy is an eternal outcast destiny. We need to be conscious of our sins to preserve our lives in reality. We need an actual victory over sin itself...not a victory over sin-consciousness.

Being freed from Sin Consciousness are the words of Paul in Hebrews 10.

Paul explains that there are 2 failures of the Law, and this is why God "found fault" with it.

1.) The Law cannot provide Righteousness.

2. ) The law can't remove the consciousness of SIN.

So, God provided a one time eternal Sacrifice, The Cross, Jesus Blood and Death, that resolves Both issues.

So, Paul's teaching is not spiritual leprosy.
Your teaching is the Spiritual Leprosy, as again, you are found in pubic contradiction to Paul.

Also,

1.) Discipleship follows Salvation.

Discipleship is not the keeping of your salvation, but rather its : the LIVING OUT the Salvation that was already finished by Jesus on the Cross....and given to you as "the GIFT of Salvation".

Salvation is something that Jesus gained without our help, that is freely given by God : as "the Gift of Righteousness".

Think about this.....In a horse race, the horses start at the gate then they run to the finish line. Whereas, In Salvation we start FINISHED, we are RIGHTEOUS to begin with, then we live out our "righteousness in Christ", as our discipleship. = we run around the track of LIFE>

 

[Episkopos]

Being freed from Sin Consciousness are the words of Paul in Hebrews 10.

Paul explains that there are 2 failures of the Law, and this is why God "found fault" with it.

1.) The Law cannot provide Righteousness.

2. ) The law can't remove the consciousness of SIN.

So, God provided a one time eternal Sacrifice, The Cross, Jesus Blood and Death, that resolves Both issues.

So, Paul's teaching is not spiritual leprosy.
Your teaching is the Spiritual Leprosy, as again, you are found in pubic contradiction to Paul.

Also,

1.) Discipleship follows Salvation.

Discipleship is not the keeping of your salvation, but rather its : the LIVING OUT the Salvation that was already finished by Jesus on the Cross....and given to you as "the GIFT of Salvation".

Salvation is something that Jesus gained without our help, that is freely given by God : as "the Gift of Righteousness".

Think about this.....In a horse race, the horses start at the gate then they run to the finish line. Whereas, In Salvation we start FINISHED, we are RIGHTEOUS to begin with, then we live out our "righteousness in Christ", as our discipleship. = we run around the track of LIFE>

It's sounds like you are finished all right. You are done. And you have completely missed Paul's message.

 

[Behold]

It's sounds like you are finished all right. You are done. And you have completely missed Paul's message.

Wait till you read Hebrews 10.
I quoted it, then expounded it.
Go and find out.

Also,
If a person is born again....Our Peace with God and our Born again position in Christ is begun by the Blood of Jesus, and kept by the Blood of Jesus. God accepted our Faith, once, and we were were born again once,= which is the PROOF that God accepted our faith and birthed us by His Spirit INTO His SPIRIT, and there we will remain. The born again are there right now. "ONE" with God and Christ.

 

[Waiting on him]

I have not suddenly changed my pov here.

My statement is qualified by the understanding that the Holy Spirit's relationship is different to us than that of the Father.

For He deals with us on the basis of our sins. It is His job to convict us of sin and righteousness and of judgment. He is the light that is shed forth that reveals to us that we are sinners.

He does this so that we can bring our sins before His throne room and leave them at the Cross.

In confessing our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There's a cross in the throne room? Interesting.

 

[justbyfaith]

There's a cross in the throne room? Interesting.

Haha.

You go before the throne room to pray to Him; and the Cross is where we all leave our sins. They're not necessarily in the same place physically.

 

[farouk]

Amen...one thing God will never feed is our flesh. And yes, I agree that there are conditions to His forgiveness but, all the verses I had listed in a previous post, were not properly addressed, some not at all.

@Nancy Prayer and the Scriptures are indeed the key to being spiritually-minded, by God's grace.