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Featured A Most Neglected Letter

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Episkopos, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ...and a most neglected warning....

    And no letter is more put aside than the one to Laodicea (which means "the people's opinions"). We are in that time period of the church...right now. But who is taking the Lord's warning to heart? Has anyone noticed how many opinions there are...or how anyone speaking about the things of God is seen as just offering one more opinion?

    It seems that everybody thinks that they have all sufficiency...that they are rich. But the truth is that there is very little life of Jesus going on in the church. Very little power and a LOT of defeat. Yet somehow the majority have been placated into thinking that there is no more grace available then what they already possess. It is seen as an offense to suggest that there is more in God's storehouse to seek God for. That there is no eye salve to actually see the kingdom of God or that there are no actual spiritual riches to buy with our whole devotion and trust in God.

    Who can perceive the warning...the prophetic warnings of God? Are we really spiritually rich...or poverty stricken?



    Rev. 3:17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—

    Hosea 12:8
    8 And Ephraim said,
    ‘Surely I have become rich,
    I have found wealth for myself;
    In all my labors
    They shall find in me no iniquity that is sin.


    Hosea 13:12
    12 “The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up;
    His sin is stored up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ...and if people refuse the warning that is plainly written in the bible...among the many other warnings...then it is no surprise that a thread based on those warnings would be also ignored.
     
  3. GTW27

    GTW27 Active Member

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    For those that are truly in Christ Jesus, The Lord has already given us all that we need. If a man needed more clarity on per se "the parable of the sower", would it be wiser to listen to a mans opinions about it, or Jesus's own Words explaining the meaning of it? It is not to late for that man, to go back and like The Words of Jesus, over his own teachings (opinions). For there is nothing covered that can not be uncovered,and nothing hidden, that will not be made manifest.
     
  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    It's about our attitude towards the Lord. It is very popular today to think we are rich and have need of nothing. This fits in with the present culture of rich entitlement and spoiled child etiquette that has infiltrated into the churches. It's like seeking the Lord has become like a disease or something. Too much responsibility for many. If a person has had a real connection to God then what is the trouble? Unless people don't believe an actual relationship to God is possible...in which case why assume all is well with that relationship?

    Why is there such a difficulty with going to God for more? God is looking for a connection...a connection that most people seem adamant about avoiding.

    Why do so many people assume they are the good ground in the parable of the sower? It's far wiser to be humble and admit that maybe we need to move closer to the Lord.

    I'm not judging anyone...but just looking at the attitude. I think we are a bit of everything really...until we get purged and expanded by the trials and tribulations that we need that causes us to grow.
     
  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    The Body of Christ will be because it is in God's plan. That many who presume they are already a part will find themselves described this the following verse is also I believe in His plan:

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:21-23


    Also any who stop working before the end of the day believing the work is already finished may find themselves on with no more of His Light at the end of their course:

    "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
    As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." Matt 9:4-5


    And since he is no longer in this world, who is the Light required to do the necessary work?

    "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matt 5:14

    And what if we cover or extinguish or allow that Light to go out [consider Abiu and Nadab]?

    "Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt 5:15-16


    They who are not hot, on fire for God, when they are supposed to be the Light, will then be found lukewarm will they not and...?

    "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth" Rev 3:16
     
  6. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Flowers of May Encounter Team

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    Sadly warnings that are indeed from God will be warned. And ignored there. Sad but true as long as we are on here.
     
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  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I think that the issue with the church of Laodicea....being the modern church...is that it is describing an attempt at mixing the nature of grace from an unselfish God....with a selfish people who cling to their old human nature. The result is chaos...a volatile mixture that produces a spoiled humanity. What people have always wanted for themselves...God seems to have resigned Himself to giving us. Grace would appear to us then as God and the devil finally agreeing on something together.

    What if the grace of God is not inspiring in us what God has meant for it to do with it? What if men have taken grace for themselves rather than submitted to the unselfish ways of God and learned to pass it on to others?

    Are we the final destination of grace...or is grace meant to flow through us into the world?

    Why did Jesus say that they who wanted to find their lives would lose them...and then offer grace to them? Wouldn't people seek to latch onto the benefits of grace for themselves? Wouldn't a seeming favour from God just entrench the human nature more deeply within they who received such grace?


    Unless grace was there to help us lose our lives for Christ?

    So we have in a large part misunderstood what God has accomplished in Jesus Christ. We have in many ways mis-appropriated something from God for our own reasons rather than seeking God's will on the matter.

    We are trying to turn grace into a law that gives us security and certainty...divorcing grace from itself to serve our own purpose. So we claim to be rich, saved, and favoured by God...even while we remain as we always were.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ...to a most neglected warning concerning an evil servant (Mat. 24:48-51)

    Mat. 24: 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


    What the evil servant lacked was wisdom...and the fear of the Lord. He was fooled into inactivity and a false security through a misuse and abuse of grace.

    Imagine a good works factory...or ...we'll call it a furniture factory. (Furnishing good works)
    2 Tim. 3:17 "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

    Now under the law there were task masters who pushed the workers and made them do certain quotas...and hounded them without rest. There was a required amount of work...and workers would shuffle half-willingly (or not) to their labours. AND you had to LOOK busy. There was a lot of show involved. And very little joy in the work.

    But under grace the task masters are removed and a perfect freedom reigns whereby the workers are free to produce at whatever pace they think is right. They are encouraged to put their heart and soul into the company and promised a share of the rewards if all goes well.

    But some of the workers take advantage of there being no supervision and no quota of work to do and begin to live it up, playing cards and video games all day...not producing any furniture. Worse still some of the workers start to disrupt things and play pranks and bully others due to the lack of discipline and supervision.

    So when the owner of the factory comes at an unsuspecting time and finds that his workers have turned his factory into an arcade...he will fire those workers and throw them out on their ear.

    Grace is meant to get us to put our whole heart and mind into the work. We are not just to make furniture...but beautiful furniture. It is a chance to give our all to God. A better quality of product. We as people do better work when we are inspired from within to do well. Just look at the Communist system with all it's guarantees regardless of quotas. Where was the quality?

    Grace takes away the quotas and also the guarantees. Grace leaves things open. We are given freedom...and we will be judged by our work. The work we did in the freedom that was given to us. God is expecting that we will give our all...like Mary who "wasted" all that costly perfume on Jesus' head. Did she do a required amount by the law?

    NO. She gave ALL. Grace is meant to inspire our ALL. God is not looking for a certain quota from us...He wants our ALL. The NT is about ALL. The OT was about a tithe under the law. But the NT is always ALL.

    So then grace is not based on a rigid law but on quantum law...not a certain amount or percentage...but ALL. Those who hold back from the Lord are in danger of rejection...from God's all.

    So then what is the wisest and safest belief to hold? Well we are to believe that the Lord could come back at any moment and be always ready and producing good furniture. Watch and pray as Jesus said.

    And the wisest choice is NOT OSAS since we are to fear the Lord and realize that God didn't spare the original factory workers but fired them...and He will also do that to ourselves unless we take His grace for what it is meant for...a better production and not a false sense of security no matter what we do.
     
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  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Episkopos,

    I'm curious, how did you come to Laodicea as meaning "the people's opinions"?

    From my Greek studies, Laos is for People, and Dike, for Right, as in Just, Justice, compounded together.

    M.R. Vincent Word Studies in the New Testament:
    the Laodiceans (Ααοδικέων)
    Read ἐν Ααοδικείᾳ in Laodicea. Laodicea means justice of the people.

    We most certainly do need to be close to the Lord as we possibly can! The good news of the Gospel is that by faith in Jesus Christ we have full access to His grace, and it's in that grace that we stand. Ours as we believe.

    Much love!
     
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  10. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I'm truly sorry Episkopos that you feel this could be you. This is the difference from being a servant (factory worker) and being a son - a member of the family.

    Please consider these things. We are re-born the spirit children of God, dead to the law, dead to sin, dead to the flesh, dead to the world, alive unto God in Christ, to live a new life. Understanding that this is our new reality is the faith that allows us to live according to this reality.

    Much love!
     
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  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    We humans have a tendency to exaggerate what we are and go too far with a suggestion. It's very human to do so.

    We indeed have access to God's grace. But this "ours as we believe" could also be "ours as we make believe."

    We are not to be as wise as children...but as innocent of evil as children. We are to be as wise as serpents...meaning we understand how the human mind works. And also how delusions are formed.
    When you see a brother who has not made room for the possibility of delusion...then you normally find a measure of delusion IN that person. It is a lack of wisdom.

    Now if the words from God didn't specifically warn us about such delusions I suppose we could put that potential aside somewhat. But this is precisely where so many will err.

    Because the things of God are invisible and subject to faith, there will be a tendency in some people to just "name it and claim it" so to speak. To exaggerate their experience (or lack of experience) as something that relates directly to the spiritual walk in Christ.

    I believe it therefore I have it! As in...I believe therefore I am. Now this kind of philosophy can be added into the words from the Lord...but they are really not in the same dimension. They are the human tendency towards indoctrination based on a human grasp of something that is actually out of reach for a human understanding.

    So I see certain brothers, even here, as philosophically indoctrinated.

    Colossians 2:8
    8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



    Just believe it and that's it. Of course that's not true. Faith is NOT about human belief. Faith is always a trusting a word from God to you personally...with a miraculous witness that can only come from God....and ultimately that brings one to God in presence.

    A person can say that they are walking in the Spirit...or that they are seated, doctrinally or philosophically, in heavenly places. But I ask these...what are you experiencing...what do you see and hear?

    It is actually very healthy to come to God with a certain amount of skepticism and questioning...a testing of spirits and especially ways of thinking (philosophy).

    Being too willing to believe without evidence (over-enthusiasm) of a true spiritual reality can lead to delusion. And MANY will be so deluded.

    One must ask...Lord, is it I?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  12. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    He says Toe-may-to and you say To-ma-toe...

    Do you see a difference?
     
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  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry that your philosophy has caused you to lack the basic reading skills that warn everyone who comes to the Lord about the nature of judgment that we all must pass through. So many will end up in not a compromised situation due to a lack of the fear of the Lord at this present time.
     
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  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    You have an uncanny ability to miss the point entirely.o_O:eek:

    Laodicea..."judgment of the people," ...is the same as what the people judge to be true...the people's opinions. Or...what the people judge to be true for themselves...

    Basically self-delusion.

    Now look at the text again...doesn't it say that they THOUGHT (opinion or judgment) that they were rich?

    Think about this...

    You miss this exhortation at your own peril. This is for you.

    Now apply that warning to HOW you hold onto what you do...what you claim about yourself...and ask...Lord, is it I?
    The fear of the Lord is still the beginning of wisdom.
     
  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, and that why it is so important to stay with the clear teachings of the Bible.

    Again, yes, some make believe this, as they do all sorts of things. So, always from Scripture . . .

    Romans 5:1-5
    1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
    4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
    5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    Much to agree with here! Yes, we must be ready to examine ourselves. But we cannot test ourselves against ourselves, we need to test ourselves by the teaching of the Bible. It's not about what we say, it's about what God says. And we need to maintain verifiability, which means, to see it in His Word, not just in our imaginations.

    Just the same, the real walk in the Spirit is with Power. Yes, it is by faith, but just the same, we will see whether these things be so in ourselves. And, I think, in others.

    Again, agreed, very different to have philosophical understandings then to have received the power of the Gospel.

    Even the demons believe, but they shudder with fear.

    A true faith is the faith of Jesus Christ living in us.

    Indeed!

    But one thing is clear . . . those who actually know Jesus, will share the same truth that He gives. Again, verifiable in the Bible.

    I don't know what others see, I see the face of my Father before me in love.

    That's OK I suppose but I recommend to believe Him, to trust Him. In that we have life in Him.

    You need to believe the right things, so again, and I cannot overstress, coming to the Word of God trusting Him, believing Him, humble, and prepared to live as His gives us life.

    Yes . . . to ask, is it I?

    We need to trust, be humble, be open to receive, to be teachable, and above, to know the truth of Scripture, not just those things that appeal to our sense of position or self-image.

    Much love!
     
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  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Opinions compared to justice or right?

    Yes. The Greek word dike does not refer to opinions. Understanding words not according to their actual use is a risky way to interpret Scripture in my opinion. One can easily get into their own ideas of things if we don't make it a point to know that our views are verifiable in the Bible.

    If we were to translate this word in that way, there will be some issues.

    But the reality, this is a very small side-point, just indicative of what happens.

    Much love!
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    OK, thank you for sharing your reasoning. Is it your view that dike should be translated opinions in all the places it is used?

    My point in the particular comment was to bring into the light an erroneous translations.

    Now, you can argue that this is what it's talking about, that in saying "the People's Rule", or "the Judgment of the People", like that, that what we're really talking about is people's opinions, but from my schooling, and from my books, that's not what the word itself means. When you say that is what it means, I disagree.

    As you know, I pay very careful attention to the exact wording of the Bible, and what IT says. If I start redefining words, who knows where I'll end up!

    Much love!
     
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  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    BTW . . . what is the usefulness in taking pot-shots at me?

    Much love?
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Another of those little "personal digs"?
     
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  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Episkopos,

    Not sure what you are saying here, would you mind being more clear?

    Much love!
     
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