A permanent structure

[VictoryinJesus]

A permanent structure: our glorified bodies.

Can anyone share what God has shown them pertaining to the moveable tent structure in the Old Testament where the Lord met with Moses in the wilderness? And what you have been shown pertaining to the temple of Solomon? Yes, both were on earth and created by man's hands but: they also show us the difference between the moveable tent(the body of flesh/His temple at present) in the wilderness where the Lord met with Moses verses the coming of a permanent structure the (glorified body) of God.(made without hands)

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved(the present flesh temple), we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. [2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven the permanent structure from heaven) [3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. [4] For we that are in this tabernacle(the present flesh temple of God as in the wilderness/ moveable, earthen) do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. [5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. [6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body(the wilderness temple of flesh), we are absent from the Lord: [7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight [8] We are confident, I say , and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body(temple of flesh), according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

A temporary structure: a moveable tent.
A permanent structure: the temple of Solomon: a glorified body.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Paul's writting in Cor about the difference betwen earthly and Spiritual bodies, I think is most apt.
A seed dies in the ground yet grows into a marvellous plant and there is no relationship between what the seed is like and the full grown plant.

We only know that Jesus's resurrection body was amazing and know that our resurrection body will be like his.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul's writting in Cor about the difference betwen earthly and Spiritual bodies, I think is most apt.
A seed dies in the ground yet grows into a marvellous plant and there is no relationship between what the seed is like and the full grown plant.

We only know that Jesus's resurrection body was amazing and know that our resurrection body will be like his.

Yes. I guess why this topic is important to me is because, lately, I have really been struggling with faith to keep going. There is this conflict between the suffering in the temporal and that hope in what will shortly be. Considering and meditating on the temporary-ness of the tent (that I believe Paul spoke of taking off and folding up one day as if finished with that work). In sight of the more permanent structure (home) of heaven and the glorified ‘oneness in love’ of the body of Christ, focusing there instead of here, brings comfort and joy. I am not asking about perfect theology of what will be (a glorified body). I just want to discuss it instead of all the ugliness I see happening every day.

Philippians 4:8
[8] Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Deuteronomy 1:27-33
[27] And ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the Lord hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us. [28] Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there. [29] Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid of them. [30] The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes; [31] And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. [32] Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God, [33] Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in , in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I have really been struggling with faith to keep going.

We rarely have to exercise faith/trust in God. We've money in the bank, food in the freezer/cupboards, a job, a home, we supply all our needs.

When we do have to trust God it hurts.

It is our choice whether to trust him or not.

I find strength and comfort in the depth, width, height and length of Gods love for me.
I do not understand why people suffer or why there is so much uglyness in the world, but I know something of the love of God that keeps me with him.

May this encourage and strength you as well.

 

[quietthinker]

Deuteronomy 1:27-33
[27] And ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the Lord hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us. [28] Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there. [29] Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid of them. [30] The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes; [31] And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. [32] Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God, [33] Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in , in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

Whether you know it or not ViJ, your posts are an encouragement. They are to me and I guess to others also, and know also he has you in his hand and no man can pluck you out John 10:28

DYSFUNCTION

Crippled while still in the womb
consuming shame firm ruling
who and how and why t’was made
a mystery just as gruelling.

Relentless punishment of self
malignant, cruel, dismissing
unconscious of the fast decline
inflated ego hissing.

Alleviation on the way
a shift by slow addiction
of sex and substance, now the pain
wisdom has her prediction.

Many voices, here am I
with promise of solution
the tricky tangles painted face
conceals the convolution.

Chameleon, approval sought
for meaningful connection
just bullshit from the slippery beast
that glorifies erection.

O who can hear the lonely cry
of hearts torn in the battle
unseen and silent tortured gasps
pretending to be stable.

O Lord please help, it’s all that’s left
from pious image seeking
I’m really fine - don’t kid yourself!
it’s vanity that’s speaking.

The firmament in cosmic spin
my God his hand enabling
in stillness and with potent speed
has cancelled the disabling.

The final word on theatre Earth
unprecedented healing
this controversy soon will end
and sooner still believing.

 

[Enoch111]

A permanent structure: the temple of Solomon: a glorified body.

Solomon's temple was *permanent* for about 400 years. Then it was destroyed. The glorified bodies of the perfected saints will be eternal, as will be the Body of Christ (which will become the Lamb's Wife). Both will be living organisms rather than structures.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes. I guess why this topic is important to me is because, lately, I have really been struggling with faith to keep going... I just want to discuss it instead of all the ugliness I see happening every day.

Philippians 4:8
[8] Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

A couple things on this, Victory.

For starters, have you ever read heavenly accounts? There are several in print, and they might do you some good at such a time. It is one thing to simply meditate on our glorified bodies, yet quite another to meditate on the joys of Heaven that are coming our way when all this is over. Does it take faith to believe such accounts? Yes. But the apostle Paul even spoke of being caught up to Third Heaven, and if it happened to him then it can happen to others.

Secondly, if all the ugliness you are seeing every day is effecting you that deeply then you need to ask God to deliver you from those surroundings so you don't have to as much. And don't assume that just because it's in your work or family environments that you have no choice, because God can change the situation around for you if you ask Him to and keep asking. Part of obeying Philippians 4:8 is in separating yourself from all the negativity around you, if and when necessary.

Let me know if you want some references. I can recommend several books.
Blessings in Christ.

 

[Stranger]

Deuteronomy 1:27-33
[27] And ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the Lord hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us. [28] Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there. [29] Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid of them. [30] The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes; [31] And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. [32] Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God, [33] Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in , in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

As a new believer, I used to read these verses and those like them and wonder why these Israelites acted as they did after God has done all that He has for them. Now I read them and identify perfectly with them. Which is why God gave them to us.

I am at present reading a book called 'Israel In The Plan Of God' by David Baron. He brought up a point I have never considered but agree with.

"Now these were the two great and blessed relationships into which God had entered with His people-that of a father to his son, and that of a husband to his wife. In both of these Israel has thus far proved unfaithful. As a Father, God has to complain of His disobedient and gainsaying people, that they are 'children who have corrupted themselves': and as a Husband He has to pour out His heart's grief and pain ever so many times at Israel's spiritual adulteries, because she 'had played the harlot with many lovers'. (Jer.3:1) But, blessed be His holy Name, He abides faithful and true, though all men prove false, 'He will ever be mindful of His covenant'; (Ps. 111:5) and in spite of all their disobedience and apostasy He has never ceased to be 'a Father to Israel,' or to call Ephraim His 'first-born.' (Jer. 31:19,20) And in the end Israel will at last enter experimentally into the blessedness of both these relationships." (p.45-46)

Concerning your opening post consider this about the Tabernacle. In (Ex. 25:12) the Hebrew word for 'side' is also used for 'rib'. And in (Ex.27:14-15) the word for 'side' is also used for 'shoulder'. Can we not see here a picture of a Man. And everything concerning this Tabernacle points to this Man, Jesus Christ, Who 'dwelt' or 'tabernacled' among us. (John 1:14). There is no end to the truths this Tabernacle reveals to those who seek it.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As a new believer, I used to read these verses and those like them and wonder why these Israelites acted as they did after God has done all that He has for them. Now I read them and identify perfectly with them. Which is why God gave them to us.

I am at present reading a book called 'Israel In The Plan Of God' by David Baron. He brought up a point I have never considered but agree with.

"Now these were the two great and blessed relationships into which God had entered with His people-that of a father to his son, and that of a husband to his wife. In both of these Israel has thus far proved unfaithful. As a Father, God has to complain of His disobedient and gainsaying people, that they are 'children who have corrupted themselves': and as a Husband He has to pour out His heart's grief and pain ever so many times at Israel's spiritual adulteries, because she 'had played the harlot with many lovers'. (Jer.3:1) But, blessed be His holy Name, He abides faithful and true, though all men prove false, 'He will ever be mindful of His covenant'; (Ps. 111:5) and in spite of all their disobedience and apostasy He has never ceased to be 'a Father to Israel,' or to call Ephraim His 'first-born.' (Jer. 31:19,20) And in the end Israel will at last enter experimentally into the blessedness of both these relationships." (p.45-46)

Concerning your opening post consider this about the Tabernacle. In (Ex. 25:12) the Hebrew word for 'side' is also used for 'rib'. And in (Ex.27:14-15) the word for 'side' is also used for 'shoulder'. Can we not see here a picture of a Man. And everything concerning this Tabernacle points to this Man, Jesus Christ, Who 'dwelt' or 'tabernacled' among us. (John 1:14). There is no end to the truths this Tabernacle reveals to those who seek it.

Stranger

Agree. After living it and experiencing how one(me) can murmur against God after all He has done, those verses become relatable. I save passages daily in a note pad, when God is speaking, this
was from yesterday: Zechariah 9:14-16
[14] And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. [15] The Lord of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar. [16] And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

“as the four corners of the altar.”

You quoted : Exodus 25:12
[12] And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.

? what are the four corners?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Deuteronomy 1:27-33
[27] And ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the Lord hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us. [28] Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there. [29] Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid of them. [30] The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes; [31] And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. [32] Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God, [33] Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in , in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

How and why I find these verses relatable: as God has brought me forth out of captivity and out of darkness, I find myself murmuring against where God has instructed to pitch the tent. Did God lead me out and open my eyes and ears, only to let my enemies destroy me? They seem so big and full of power and their hate an unstoppable force. When...with the same power God opened my eyes and ears with, He promises to: “The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes;”, but it doesn’t appear so. Not from this temporal view, it doesn’t. “[31] And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son” as a Father bears a son(upon His shoulders). “Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God, [33] Who went in the way before you, (to search) you out a place to pitch your tents...” ...to search out a place to pitch your tents, tells me God controls where this tent is pitched. Same as Paul, in the body of the tent was led of God. So, why do I murmur, is what I find myself asking. When God is so very good.

 

[bbyrd009]

I just want to discuss it instead of all the ugliness I see happening every day.

hmm, surprised that you would be seeing any ugliness. fwiw you might try and come to...like a diff perception there, maybe. Not sure how to express that like avoiding it can often be actually giving it a place, as opposed to recognizing it for what it is and standing firm resisting it. Ugliness is usually a value judgement, might be another way to put it. Imo satan is supposed to flee, we are not supposed to flee; "yes, even though i walk through the valley of shadows, i have no fear."

of course we are counselled to not be doing any such thing as eating with tax collectors, but rather to clan up under some banner with like-minded ppl; and i don't mean to imply that there is not a time and place for those either; but that is more like festivals than work time, so to speak.

Those are recharge sessions imo, and shouldn't be construed as where we are to be physically dwelling as a rule. We even have a passage about...attending meals? dinners? like dinner parties? to excess and the detriment of others, which we of course do not associate with going to church on Sunday now, but imo that is what it is talking about

 

[bbyrd009]

not sure how much sense that makes lol, but a point there is that a profound change comes over a tax collector when they realize that they are not being judged. Doesn't mean that you approve of the tax collecting, but that you are...overlooking it, i guess. Not seeing the ugliness, that after all pretty much everyone else in the world sees, right. Seeing implies judgement here

 

[bbyrd009]

? what are the four corners?

four is usually an indicator of "everywhere" i think, all "four" directions, maybe "everywhere physical" might be a better view there, "the entire physical plane" maybe:

"
4 - Weakness; relationship of Earth to the Ruler of Creation in the Heavens

• 
  Gen. 1:17-18; Ex. 38:19 - four pillars in the Gate of the Tabernacle for the weakness of man at salvation."
  • 
    Numbers in Scripture
  • 
    
  which i don't completely agree with but is maybe another valid pov. Possibly another way to indicate "the seen."

 

[bbyrd009]

In the following piece of writing, we will study the significanceof Bible number 4, the number that symbolizes God setting all the things in order. ... In one of the verses of the Holy Bible, there is a river of paradise that parted into four heads and therefore bible numerology number 4 also denotes division.
The Bible numerology code number 4 - AstroVera.com

not sure "division" is the best characterization, maybe "separation," but whatever. Setting things in order, ya. The Natural Order iow maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

I am not asking about perfect theology of what will be (a glorified body). I just want to discuss it instead of all the ugliness I see happening every day.

it will be walking through the valley of shadows with a contented countenance, and most anyone looking in will not understand why that person is voluntarily in what appears to be hell. Imo just get comfy walking around in a furnace, and bring heaven with you; let their sin condemn them, by not paying it any attention at all.

 

[bbyrd009]

We even have a passage about...attending meals? dinners? like dinner parties? to excess and the detriment of others, which we of course do not associate with going to church on Sunday now, but imo that is what it is talking about

iow living for the moments of congregation is possibly tantamount to always wanting to go to parties, and never wanting to work.
"Eat at home" is a cryptic way to express this, which has nothing to do with literal food imo

 

[Helen]

You are on a roll @bbyrd009 some good points made there.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

hmm, surprised that you would be seeing any ugliness. fwiw you might try and come to...like a diff perception there, maybe. Not sure how to express that like avoiding it can often be actually giving it a place, as opposed to recognizing it for what it is and standing firm resisting it. Ugliness is usually a value judgement, might be another way to put it. Imo satan is supposed to flee, we are not supposed to flee; "yes, even though i walk through the valley of shadows, i have no fear."

of course we are counselled to not be doing any such thing as eating with tax collectors, but rather to clan up under some banner with like-minded ppl; and i don't mean to imply that there is not a time and place for those either; but that is more like festivals than work time, so to speak.

Those are recharge sessions imo, and shouldn't be construed as where we are to be physically dwelling as a rule. We even have a passage about...attending meals? dinners? like dinner parties? to excess and the detriment of others, which we of course do not associate with going to church on Sunday now, but imo that is what it is talking about

Proverbs 8:13
[13] The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

It is not people, it is the things done that hurt others you love. When I say “ugly” things I mean; for instance scripture used to prey on young children(sexually). The preying and behavior is certainly ugly. It is knowing and seeing all to clearly the behavior is ugly and hating it and wanting the behavior to come to an end. That is just one example. How can God see some of the things a corrupt heart does in secret, and not put a stop it? That is what gets me. God sees the abuse and is the only one that can rise up against it. Lets say we do speak against it, and the evil behavior continues....I’m left begging for the power to stop what is done in secret. But there again, sometimes, the ONLY way is for God to bring it into the light and expose it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

four is usually an indicator of "everywhere" i think, all "four" directions, maybe "everywhere physical" might be a better view there, "the entire physical plane" maybe:

"
4 - Weakness; relationship of Earth to the Ruler of Creation in the Heavens

• 
  Gen. 1:17-18; Ex. 38:19 - four pillars in the Gate of the Tabernacle for the weakness of man at salvation."
  • 
    Numbers in Scripture
  which i don't completely agree with but is maybe another valid pov. Possibly another way to indicate "the seen."

“...let down from heaven by four corners;”

Acts 11:5-9
[5] I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: [6] Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [7] And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. [8] But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [9] But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.