A Place For Christ

[soul man]

There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ. That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18. God does not set up something special when a person gets saved. Every person who recognizes his or her need of a savior comes to God on the basis of their death on the cross because they were in him at Calvary. They are simply receiving something that has already been done on God's part. A big problem with Believers is they don't know they are dead in Christ. When Believers have a problem with sin, the best thing they can do is go back to the cross because that is where God took care of sin.

Paul saw the consequences of Christ in us and us in Christ. The fact is that since you have been rebirthed, you have never had anything happened to you outside of Jesus Christ. God only deals with you on the basis of Jesus Christ and what Christ has done as you. There is no "you" at any point, aside from Christ in you. The Apostle Paul is the first to know that fact.
The world would be better off if it would listen to the Apostle Paul because he never veers from this message. That is why he said he is determined to know nothing "among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" 1 Corinthians 2:2.

When you died on the cross, there was nothing more that could be done. The cross is a finished work, and all you can do is to believe it.

Most of us have tried all of our Lives to become something we already are. You are already dead, this is the reason Paul said in Romans 6:11,

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A popular saying in Christianity is "I must die to that," you can't die to something you are already dead to.
What you can do is fix in your mind that you are already dead to it. That is what Paul calls Reckoning, you are already dead to it and now you reckon it so.
As we said before religion depends on you living the Christian Life, you being good, you taking up a certain Doctrine, you becoming a member of a church and you doing according to the church's rules.
It was never God's intention that you live a separate life from the Christ life in you. That is why we say that Paul gives the definition of the Christ life that the individual believer may have a witness in this world to the Christ life as their life. If an individual does not have a clear definition of scripture they become a spoiler of the Christ in them. He does not leave them but the nature and characteristics of the Christ life goes without expression, Gal. 5:22-24

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And your Christianity is lived out of mind in place of the spirit, Romans 1:9

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ. That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18. God does not set up something special when a person gets saved. Every person who recognizes his or her need of a savior comes to God on the basis of their death on the cross because they were in him at Calvary. They are simply receiving something that has already been done on God's part. A big problem with Believers is they don't know they are dead in Christ. When Believers have a problem with sin, the best thing they can do is go back to the cross because that is where God took care of sin.

Paul saw the consequences of Christ in us and us in Christ. The fact is that since you have been rebirthed, you have never had anything happened to you outside of Jesus Christ. God only deals with you on the basis of Jesus Christ and what Christ has done as you. There is no "you" at any point, aside from Christ in you. The Apostle Paul is the first to know that fact.
The world would be better off if it would listen to the Apostle Paul because he never veers from this message. That is why he said he is determined to know nothing "among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" 1 Corinthians 2:2.

When you died on the cross, there was nothing more that could be done. The cross is a finished work, and all you can do is to believe it.

Most of us have tried all of our Lives to become something we already are. You are already dead, this is the reason Paul said in Romans 6:11,

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A popular saying in Christianity is "I must die to that," you can't die to something you are already dead to.
What you can do is fix in your mind that you are already dead to it. That is what Paul calls Reckoning, you are already dead to it and now you reckon it so.
As we said before religion depends on you living the Christian Life, you being good, you taking up a certain Doctrine, you becoming a member of a church and you doing according to the church's rules.
It was never God's intention that you live a separate life from the Christ life in you. That is why we say that Paul gives the definition of the Christ life that the individual believer may have a witness in this world to the Christ life as their life. If an individual does not have a clear definition of scripture they become a spoiler of the Christ in them. He does not leave them but the nature and characteristics of the Christ life goes without expression, Gal. 5:22-24

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And your Christianity is lived out of mind in place of the spirit, Romans 1:9

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

I agree as long as you mean that when you are dead to sin, you no longer commit willful sins. One thing I take exception with is "That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18." Paul did not want anyone to come to that conclusion! Did you read the whole chapter 6 in Romans? He warned "the wages of sin is death." If you keep on sinning, Satan is still your master. What I take exception with is it is the same thing Jude took exception with - turning the grace of God into licentiousness, v.4.

Covered? That is what the blood of bulls and goats did. The blood of Jesus is not the same as some invisibility cloak that covers our sin while we keep sinning so the sin remains, just covered. No! Jesus blood TAKES AWAY our SIN. That is the sin nature itself that used to spew out sin nonstop. That is the old man, the old carnal flesh/nature. Until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit, we have no power over sin because the sin nature remains. But we are not in the flesh/the sin nature, but in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of God. But there are whole denominations that have never experienced being baptized in the Holy Spirit that do not know this and will say "we will always have the sin nature, thus the old ruse of "covering" our sin, and itching ears lap it up. It is all they can relate to, never having been given power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. To receive the baptism repent from all sin. Acts 2:38

It is more than belief about Jesus. You must be IN Him, and He in you. That is intimacy with Christ. That person does not commit willful sin. He cannot. 1 John 3:9

 

[Taken]

There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ.

Disagree.

That means their sin is covered.

Disagree. Rather, would say;
A man WHO has ACCEPTED the Lords OFFERING, is a man:
Crucified "WITH" Christ...
Dead "TO" sin...
"Alive IN Christ".

It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18. God does not set up something special when a person gets saved.

"Set up" ?
Already Established IS "something special" FOR the man WHO "accepts" His Offering....
"Not all men "accept" His Offering"....even though "His Offering" IS, offered to all men.

Every person who

Agree....every person "who"...
Disagree with your opening statement...."none ARE ungodly".

recognizes his or her need of a savior comes to God on the basis of their death on the cross because they were in him at Calvary. They are simply receiving something that has already been done on God's part. A big problem with Believers is they don't know they are dead in Christ.

When Believers have a problem with sin, the best thing they can do is go back to the cross because that is where God took care of sin.

Disagree, somewhat.
1) Agree Believers, can fall from faith.
2) Disagree Born Again Believers, can fall from faith.

Disagree. If one HAS gone TO the Cross, ie Become saved and born again....
1) that commission of sin applies to them.
2) that "they should" AGAIN "go TO the Cross", and "shame the Lord"....."AS IF", His Forgiveness Failed.
Heb 6:6

God Bless,
Taken

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Disagree.



Disagree. Rather, would say;
A man WHO has ACCEPTED the Lords OFFERING, is a man:
Crucified "WITH" Christ...
Dead "TO" sin...
"Alive IN Christ".



"Set up" ?
Already Established IS "something special" FOR the man WHO "accepts" His Offering....
"Not all men "accept" His Offering"....even though "His Offering" IS, offered to all men.



Agree....every person "who"...
Disagree with your opening statement...."none ARE ungodly".





Disagree, somewhat.
1) Agree Believers, can fall from faith.
2) Disagree Born Again Believers, can fall from faith.

Disagree. If one HAS gone TO the Cross, ie Become saved and born again....
1) that commission of sin applies to them.
2) that "they should" AGAIN "go TO the Cross", and "shame the Lord"....."AS IF", His Forgiveness Failed.
Heb 6:6

God Bless,
Taken

I'm curious of your stand on what I wrote in #2.

 

[Taken]

I agree as long as you mean that when you are dead to sin, you no longer commit willful sins.

I disagree with this premise.
When a man IS Converted and DEAD TO SIN...how does that man COMMIT sin?

One thing I take exception with is "That means their sin is covered.

I do believe a Converted mans SIN, IS:
Forgiven and COVERED.

I think the confusion and cause for debate and disagreement moreso lies with....
The difference of what the men disagreeing Believe...
Sin means,
Forgiven means,
Covered means.

It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18."

Paul did not want anyone to come to that conclusion! Did you read the whole chapter 6 in Romans? He warned "the wages of sin is death." If you keep on sinning, Satan is still your master. What I take exception with is it is the same thing Jude took exception with - turning the grace of God into licentiousness, v.4.

Covered? That is what the blood of bulls and goats did.

Yes. It was a Temporary "covering", and required "repeating" yearly.
(I would suppose a man "WHO SKIPPED" a yearly ritual, would not be "covered" for that year....and take his own chances that he would not die in his sins during that "skipped" year.) However that applied to Jews.

The blood of Jesus is not the same as some invisibility cloak that covers our sin while we keep sinning so the sin remains, just covered.

Agree, Jesus' Blood is NOT the same as an animal.

I am a Gentile; Animal blood was never a requirement of me.

No! Jesus blood TAKES AWAY our SIN.

Jesus' BLOOD offering, IS a gift for men to Take and Receive, OR Reject.

Jesus' BLOOD offering, THAT IS Received BY a man....IS a man Receiving The Lord's FORGIVENESS of SIN AGAINST God.

Sin, Evil, Wickedness, anti-Christ, etc.....
Are things that are Considered....DARK, precisely because DARK IS Opposed and Opposite TO LIGHT, and God IS PURE LIGHT.

A forgiven man IS FORGIVEN.
A Converted man IS COVERED.

I don't believe SIN, is "taken away", but RATHER, SIN/Darkness, IS OVERCOME, by Gods INTERNAL/ "indwelling", "Spirit/Light".

When you enter a DARK room, and then turn on a Light. The darkness does not disappear, it become overcome by the Light, so the darkness is no longer visible.

When a man has OVERCOME the darkness, Sin, rejection of God.....it is BY and Because Gods Light/Power has OVERCOME the darkness, that the darkness can be NO MORE visible.

It is after Judgement Day....all remaining sin, evil, darkness, wickedness, corruption, works that do not Glorify God, etc., shall be Destroyed.

That is the sin nature itself that used to spew out sin nonstop. That is the old man, the old carnal flesh/nature. Until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit, we have no power over sin because the sin nature remains. But we are not in the flesh/the sin nature, but in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of God. But there are whole denominations that have never experienced being baptized in the Holy Spirit that do not know this and will say "we will always have the sin nature, thus the old ruse of "covering" our sin, and itching ears lap it up. It is all they can relate to, never having been given power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. To receive the baptism repent from all sin. Acts 2:38

I agree with this, but am puzzled, by you saying this....AND your opening statement...
Seems contradictory.

you no longer commit wilful sin

It is more than belief about Jesus. You must be IN Him, and He in you. That is intimacy with Christ. That person does not commit willful sin. He cannot. 1 John 3:9

I would disagree with you....and with those who teach the same.

Think about it. Either you are Freed from SIN, or you are not.

And this relates back to my comment about people disagreeing, based on the people having differing opinions on what SIN means.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Taken

Your post needs some editing regarding quote marks to display properly, but I did copy this.

I agree with this, but am puzzled, by you saying this....AND your opening statement...
Seems contradictory.

I'm not being contradictory so what is it you misunderstood. Ask me a question that points to the contradiction.

 

[Nancy]

I agree as long as you mean that when you are dead to sin, you no longer commit willful sins. One thing I take exception with is "That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18." Paul did not want anyone to come to that conclusion! Did you read the whole chapter 6 in Romans? He warned "the wages of sin is death." If you keep on sinning, Satan is still your master. What I take exception with is it is the same thing Jude took exception with - turning the grace of God into licentiousness, v.4.

Covered? That is what the blood of bulls and goats did. The blood of Jesus is not the same as some invisibility cloak that covers our sin while we keep sinning so the sin remains, just covered. No! Jesus blood TAKES AWAY our SIN. That is the sin nature itself that used to spew out sin nonstop. That is the old man, the old carnal flesh/nature. Until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit, we have no power over sin because the sin nature remains. But we are not in the flesh/the sin nature, but in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of God. But there are whole denominations that have never experienced being baptized in the Holy Spirit that do not know this and will say "we will always have the sin nature, thus the old ruse of "covering" our sin, and itching ears lap it up. It is all they can relate to, never having been given power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. To receive the baptism repent from all sin. Acts 2:38

It is more than belief about Jesus. You must be IN Him, and He in you. That is intimacy with Christ. That person does not commit willful sin. He cannot. 1 John 3:9

When @soul man said "There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ. That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18."
What I read into that is that God's salvation through Christ's sacrifice, is available to all and any who will believe and receive it. When Jesus died for the sins of the world, He died for ALL of them, past, present and future. So, in that sense, the unbeliever has had their sins already nailed to the cross. It is up to them to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit's conviction in their lives. So, once an unbeliever becomes a believer, their sins are taken away as far as the East is from the West-He remembers them no more, no longer covered, but taken away forever. License to sin? GOD FORBID!!! A born again person does not "willfully" sin...and BTW-I cannot think of a single sin that is NOT willful.
A true born again believer learns to HATE sin, if they do not...I would have to question their sincerity. JMO.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

When @soul man said "There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ. That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18."
What I read into that is that God's salvation through Christ's sacrifice, is available to all and any who will believe and receive it. When Jesus died for the sins of the world, He died for ALL of them, past, present and future. So, in that sense, the unbeliever has had their sins already nailed to the cross. It is up to them to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit's conviction in their lives. So, once an unbeliever becomes a believer, their sins are taken away as far as the East is from the West-He remembers them no more, no longer covered, but taken away forever. License to sin? GOD FORBID!!! A born again person does not "willfully" sin...and BTW-I cannot think of a single sin that is NOT willful.
A true born again believer learns to HATE sin, if they do not...I would have to question their sincerity. JMO.

Hi Nancy.

There are some common teachings in the church since the Reformation, and the adding of "alone" to "the just shall live by faith."

One of them is the phrase "past, present and future sins." That just isn't scriptural. It is our PAST sins that are dealt with. We are just as if we had never sinned - sinless. The power we are given at that point through the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we repent of all sin prevents us from sinning presently or in the future. Jesus didn't leave us with the old sin nature when He gave us His Spirit. This is what being born again is - a new nature that doesn't willfully sin.

You may not believe there are sins that are not "willful" but that is a common teaching also from the Reformation that is in error. The teachings of the Reformation have infected every Protestant denomination, even Pentecostals who claim to keep the whole word of God. What I mean is the Bible teaches the difference between sins unto death, and sins not unto death. Sinning willfully is lawlessness - the breaking of the eternal laws of God to love. 1 John 3:4 is speaking of this type of sin - willful/presumptuous sins. In the Old Testament there was no sacrifice to cover this type of sin - they simply stoned them to death. Not even the blood of bulls and goats covered those sins. When we confess our sins (willful sins) Jesus takes them away because His sacrifice is strong enough to take away ALL sin. This is the beginning, done once to become a true Christian. (Or if, God forbid, you've lost your first love and have fallen back into sin.) It is not, as the Reformation again teaches, a vicious cycle of inevitably sin-repent-sin-repent-sin-repent till Christ comes. The blood of Jesus is so much stronger than that and supernatural. Jesus changes our whole nature to no longer have any desire to sin willfully because of God Himself indwelling those who have truly repented which is the only way Jesus will give His Holy Spirit to us. Acts 2:38. 90% of the church hasn't done that (I hope less, but if the forums are any indication, I have to wonder).

The Bible does teach there are sins called trespasses that are unwittingly committed. Leviticus 5:15. These are NOT willful sins, willfully committed, but missing the mark of perfection. We don't even know we commit these enough to repent of them. But in time, as we walk in the Spirit, we grow out of these faults of character as the fruit of the Spirit mature.

Does this make sense to you? I hope so.

 

[Taken]

@Taken

Your post needs some editing regarding quote marks to display properly, but I did copy this.

I agree with this, but am puzzled, by you saying this....AND your opening statement...
Seems contradictory

I'm not being contradictory so what is it you misunderstood. Ask me a question that points to the contradiction.

You said; He takes away SIN.
Then you say; To no longer commit willful sin.

You will have to clarify what you mean....
Because it sounds like you are saying;
He takes away SIN; but you can Still Sin.



God Bless,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy.

There are some common teachings in the church since the Reformation, and the adding of "alone" to "the just shall live by faith."

One of them is the phrase "past, present and future sins." That just isn't scriptural. It is our PAST sins that are dealt with. We are just as if we had never sinned - sinless. The power we are given at that point through the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we repent of all sin prevents us from sinning presently or in the future. Jesus didn't leave us with the old sin nature when He gave us His Spirit. This is what being born again is - a new nature that doesn't willfully sin.

You may not believe there are sins that are not "willful" but that is a common teaching also from the Reformation that is in error. The teachings of the Reformation have infected every Protestant denomination, even Pentecostals who claim to keep the whole word of God. What I mean is the Bible teaches the difference between sins unto death, and sins not unto death. Sinning willfully is lawlessness - the breaking of the eternal laws of God to love. 1 John 3:4 is speaking of this type of sin - willful/presumptuous sins. In the Old Testament there was no sacrifice to cover this type of sin - they simply stoned them to death. Not even the blood of bulls and goats covered those sins. When we confess our sins (willful sins) Jesus takes them away because His sacrifice is strong enough to take away ALL sin. This is the beginning, done once to become a true Christian. (Or if, God forbid, you've lost your first love and have fallen back into sin.) It is not, as the Reformation again teaches, a vicious cycle of inevitably sin-repent-sin-repent-sin-repent till Christ comes. The blood of Jesus is so much stronger than that and supernatural. Jesus changes our whole nature to no longer have any desire to sin willfully because of God Himself indwelling those who have truly repented which is the only way Jesus will give His Holy Spirit to us. Acts 2:38. 90% of the church hasn't done that (I hope less, but if the forums are any indication, I have to wonder).

The Bible does teach there are sins called trespasses that are unwittingly committed. Leviticus 5:15. These are NOT willful sins, willfully committed, but missing the mark of perfection. We don't even know we commit these enough to repent of them. But in time, as we walk in the Spirit, we grow out of these faults of character as the fruit of the Spirit mature.

Does this make sense to you? I hope so.

Yes, much of your post does make sense. As far as Jesus dying once for all, I had been posed a question once: "How many sins did you commit when Jesus died for all sin?" Well, obviously, none as I was not even born yet. But, to say I am perfect and never commit sin, whether in thought, deed or omission, would make me a liar. I repent daily, for certain attitudes that I know are not of Him. We still have that parasite called sin living in us and, IMHO, we will never be totally sinless in this body. We (if truly born of the Spirit) will sin less...but I cannot say that I am sinless. Repentance is a daily thing for me, as His light shines ever more in my heart, I find sin I did not realize I had, I repent and He IS so faithful to give me the grace to overcome these sins, and eventually, I do not sin in that way again. He is faithful as I have grown exponentially in my faith in Him. He makes me WANT to do His will. I crave to have His will first, always, in my walk/race.
The KJV is my go to bible as I started with it, and it is easier to remember verses. It does not say faith alone though. Can you tell me which bibles added "alone"?
Yes, we do have a new nature, we put off the old man...but in my understanding, this is a process, and involves obedience-which is so much better than sacrifice! Especially since obedience to Him is ALWAYS for our own good.
"It is not, as the Reformation again teaches, a vicious cycle of inevitably sin-repent-sin-repent-sin-repent till Christ comes. The blood of Jesus is so much stronger than that and supernatural. Jesus changes our whole nature to no longer have any desire to sin willfully because of God Himself indwelling those who have truly repented which is the only way Jesus will give His Holy Spirit to us. Acts 2:38. 90% of the church hasn't done that (I hope less, but if the forums are any indication, I have to wonder)."
No, it is NOT sin, repent, sin... If we are growing spiritually in Him, we no longer desire the fleshly things. I was a bar fly, did a lot of very selfish and sinful things. I did not, then, see the sin in all of that. It has been a good 20 years since I have lived that life. I thought sure, B.C. that I would be sitting on a bar stool, drinking and waiting to meet "the one" until the day I died!!! Oh how awesome is our God ♥
Yes, the Church is so splintered. And, I do not think there will ever be true unity in Christ until He completes all things, then we will all be one in Him.
Good post, much to think on.
God Bless,
-nancy

 

[Helen]

There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ. That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18. God does not set up something special when a person gets saved. Every person who recognizes his or her need of a savior comes to God on the basis of their death on the cross because they were in him at Calvary. They are simply receiving something that has already been done on God's part. A big problem with Believers is they don't know they are dead in Christ. When Believers have a problem with sin, the best thing they can do is go back to the cross because that is where God took care of sin.

Paul saw the consequences of Christ in us and us in Christ. The fact is that since you have been rebirthed, you have never had anything happened to you outside of Jesus Christ. God only deals with you on the basis of Jesus Christ and what Christ has done as you. There is no "you" at any point, aside from Christ in you. The Apostle Paul is the first to know that fact.
The world would be better off if it would listen to the Apostle Paul because he never veers from this message. That is why he said he is determined to know nothing "among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" 1 Corinthians 2:2.

When you died on the cross, there was nothing more that could be done. The cross is a finished work, and all you can do is to believe it.

Most of us have tried all of our Lives to become something we already are. You are already dead, this is the reason Paul said in Romans 6:11,

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A popular saying in Christianity is "I must die to that," you can't die to something you are already dead to.
What you can do is fix in your mind that you are already dead to it. That is what Paul calls Reckoning, you are already dead to it and now you reckon it so.
As we said before religion depends on you living the Christian Life, you being good, you taking up a certain Doctrine, you becoming a member of a church and you doing according to the church's rules.
It was never God's intention that you live a separate life from the Christ life in you. That is why we say that Paul gives the definition of the Christ life that the individual believer may have a witness in this world to the Christ life as their life. If an individual does not have a clear definition of scripture they become a spoiler of the Christ in them. He does not leave them but the nature and characteristics of the Christ life goes without expression, Gal. 5:22-24

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And your Christianity is lived out of mind in place of the spirit, Romans 1:9

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Amen...Yes Indeed.

.......

 

[Helen]

When @soul man said "There is not an ungodly person in your neighborhood, in your family, or on the job who is not dead in Christ. That means their sin is covered. It means Sinners don't have to go to hell because of their sin but because they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:18."
What I read into that is that God's salvation through Christ's sacrifice, is available to all and any who will believe and receive it. When Jesus died for the sins of the world, He died for ALL of them, past, present and future. So, in that sense, the unbeliever has had their sins already nailed to the cross. It is up to them to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit's conviction in their lives. So, once an unbeliever becomes a believer, their sins are taken away as far as the East is from the West-He remembers them no more, no longer covered, but taken away forever. License to sin? GOD FORBID!!! A born again person does not "willfully" sin...and BTW-I cannot think of a single sin that is NOT willful.
A true born again believer learns to HATE sin, if they do not...I would have to question their sincerity. JMO.

Yes...Good one Nancy.

Sin is sin...it has been atoned for..all, sin...the judgement upon Adams seed has been paid in full. Past, present and future. There is no TIME in God...it was once, and for all. ALL sin was paid for...but the choice is with Mr Ordinary as to whether he ever says 'thank you' and enjoys the full benefits, or not.

Many still chose to believe otherwise...which casts doubts on the power of Jesus sacrifice for us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I agree with this, but am puzzled, by you saying this....AND your opening statement...
Seems contradictory



You said; He takes away SIN.
Then you say; To no longer commit willful sin.

You will have to clarify what you mean....
Because it sounds like you are saying;
He takes away SIN; but you can Still Sin.



God Bless,
Taken

To no longer commit sin? No. I said: "I agree as long as you mean that when you are dead to sin, you no longer commit willful sins.

I am not saying, "He takes away SIN; but you can Still Sin." Just the opposite. The Holy Spirit prevents you from committing willful sin, IF indeed we have the Spirit of God in us.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Nancy]

Yes...Good one Nancy.

Sin is sin...it has been atoned for..all, sin...the judgement upon Adams seed has been paid in full. Past, present and future. There is no TIME in God...it was once, and for all. ALL sin was paid for...but the choice is with Mr Ordinary as to whether he ever says 'thank you' and enjoys the full benefits, or not.

Many still chose to believe otherwise...which casts doubts on the power of Jesus sacrifice for us.

Yes Helen, I agree. He died ONCE FOR ALL...done, complete and ours for the receiving. We see our desperate need for His gift, given freely. We can either accept and agree with God that we are sinners in need of the Perfect Savior, or we can believe we do not need Him. And, His sacrifice has no effect on the unrepentant.

 

[Enoch111]

There are some common teachings in the church since the Reformation, and the adding of "alone" to "the just shall live by faith."

I believe you have misunderstood "faith alone" (sola fide), and it is not related to "the just shall live by faith" (a separate issue).

In connection with SALVATION there were five "solas" recognized by the Reformers, and these are according to Scripture. But they must not be separated from each other.

• Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")

• Sola fide ("by faith alone")

• Sola gratia ("by grace alone")

• Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")

• Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

What does this mean?
1. For Christians the Bible is the ultimate authority for all truth.
2. That we are saved by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption PLUS NOTHING.
3. Since salvation is of the LORD, God alone gets the glory.

This was in contrast to Roman Catholic teaching which elevated "Holy Tradition" to the level of Scripture (if not above Scripture) and taught that the sacraments and the RCC were essential to salvation.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, much of your post does make sense. As far as Jesus dying once for all, I had been posed a question once: "How many sins did you commit when Jesus died for all sin?" Well, obviously, none as I was not even born yet. But, to say I am perfect and never commit sin, whether in thought, deed or omission, would make me a liar. I repent daily, for certain attitudes that I know are not of Him. We still have that parasite called sin living in us and, IMHO, we will never be totally sinless in this body. We (if truly born of the Spirit) will sin less...but I cannot say that I am sinless. Repentance is a daily thing for me, as His light shines ever more in my heart, I find sin I did not realize I had, I repent and He IS so faithful to give me the grace to overcome these sins, and eventually, I do not sin in that way again. He is faithful as I have grown exponentially in my faith in Him. He makes me WANT to do His will. I crave to have His will first, always, in my walk/race.
The KJV is my go to bible as I started with it, and it is easier to remember verses. It does not say faith alone though. Can you tell me which bibles added "alone"?
Yes, we do have a new nature, we put off the old man...but in my understanding, this is a process, and involves obedience-which is so much better than sacrifice! Especially since obedience to Him is ALWAYS for our own good.
"It is not, as the Reformation again teaches, a vicious cycle of inevitably sin-repent-sin-repent-sin-repent till Christ comes. The blood of Jesus is so much stronger than that and supernatural. Jesus changes our whole nature to no longer have any desire to sin willfully because of God Himself indwelling those who have truly repented which is the only way Jesus will give His Holy Spirit to us. Acts 2:38. 90% of the church hasn't done that (I hope less, but if the forums are any indication, I have to wonder)."
No, it is NOT sin, repent, sin... If we are growing spiritually in Him, we no longer desire the fleshly things. I was a bar fly, did a lot of very selfish and sinful things. I did not, then, see the sin in all of that. It has been a good 20 years since I have lived that life. I thought sure, B.C. that I would be sitting on a bar stool, drinking and waiting to meet "the one" until the day I died!!! Oh how awesome is our God ♥
Yes, the Church is so splintered. And, I do not think there will ever be true unity in Christ until He completes all things, then we will all be one in Him.
Good post, much to think on.
God Bless,
-nancy

Faith "alone" is not in the Bible; that's the point. The Reformation added the word "alone" to say all you need to do is believe in Jesus and the sins you keep committing are forgiven. No! You don't keep on committing willful sins. That is what is unscriptural, but was a false teaching even in the first century, but Jude spoke against it, as did John.

BTW I see you referred by your statement "
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
But, to say I am perfect and never commit sin, whether in thought, deed or omission, would make me a liar" to 1 John 1:8 which is man's condition BEFORE repentance to become a Christian and receiving the Holy Spirit. The Gnostics were a plague in the first century, and infiltrated many congregations including Johns. They were in his congregation, thus the "we" though they were not of them.

1 John 2:18-20 "
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I believe you have misunderstood "faith alone" (sola fide), and it is not related to "the just shall live by faith" (a separate issue).

In connection with SALVATION there were five "solas" recognized by the Reformers, and these are according to Scripture. But they must not be separated from each other.

• Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")

• Sola fide ("by faith alone")

• Sola gratia ("by grace alone")

• Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")

• Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

What does this mean?
1. For Christians the Bible is the ultimate authority for all truth.
2. That we are saved by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption PLUS NOTHING.
3. Since salvation is of the LORD, God alone gets the glory.

This was in contrast to Roman Catholic teaching which elevated "Holy Tradition" to the level of Scripture (if not above Scripture) and taught that the sacraments and the RCC were essential to salvation.

I've had many debates with Calvinists on the forums over the years, and all believe the sins they still commit are forgiven because of their faith in Jesus alone. Obedience to them is a "work" - another twist of scripture. They even hold up Maritin Luther as having said to sin boldly. Paul spoke against such nonsense of doctrine. "Shall we sin so grace may abound? God forbid." Paul knew what he had previously said could be misunderstood so he quickly headed us off from making that distinction. But people still miss the clarification and take scripture out of context and twist it according to their reasoning of Paul's words.

 

[Enoch111]

Faith "alone" is not in the Bible; that's the point. The Reformation added the word "alone" to say all you need to do is believe in Jesus and the sins you keep committing are forgiven.

Why are you misrepresenting Reformed Theology (even though I do not subscribe to it)? That is not what is taught. Instead, ask yourself if anything can be added to this:

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Why are you misrepresenting Reformed Theology (even though I do not subscribe to it)? That is not what is taught. Instead, ask yourself if anything can be added to this:

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)

You have to ask yourself why Jesus wrote a letter to the age of the Reformation, called Sardis, and called it the dead church. It is the most dangerous doctrine in the Church and will lead many to hell. But it also says not everyone holds to the false doctrines that contradict the written word. I see John Wesley as that exception.

 

[Taken]

To no longer commit sin? No. I said: "I agree as long as you mean that when you are dead to sin, you no longer commit willful sins.

I am not saying, "He takes away SIN; but you can Still Sin." Just the opposite. The Holy Spirit prevents you from committing willful sin, IF indeed we have the Spirit of God in us.

Still puzzled. Why the caveat, "wilful sin" ?

If one is "prevented from committing willful sin"....is there some other KIND of sin, that can be committed, that was omitted from Forgiveness, and CAN be committed?

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I agree with Scripture.

God Bless,
Taken