A Question For Mormons

[reformed1689]

If the Book of Mormon comes from plates that were lost in 428AD until Smith found them, why do they contain over 20,000 words that are a direct verbatim quote from the King James Bible which was not published until 1200 years later?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If the Book of Mormon comes from plates that were lost in 428AD until Smith found them, why do they contain over 20,000 words that are a direct verbatim quote from the King James Bible which was not published until 1200 years later?

People in scripture can quote other scriptures (regularly done in the Book of Mormon), and God can say the same message twice (also regularly done in the Book of Mormon). And yes, it is believed that God can provide the English translation to match.

While looking at scripture and quoting, one also needs remember that the NT books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John largely tell the same events. Sometimes these events are in different order, some times the quotes match exactly, sometimes quasi different. And that's totally ok-- different people telling of events. I see no reason to complain about a quote matching exactly or being quasi different.

Scripture / theology / belief should be always approached thoughtfully, with humble prayer.

 

[reformed1689]

People in scripture can quote other scriptures (regularly done in the Book of Mormon), and God can say the same message twice (also regularly done in the Book of Mormon). And yes, it is believed that God can provide the English translation to match.

While looking at scripture and quoting, one also needs remember that the NT books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John largely tell the same events. Sometimes these events are in different order, some times the quotes match exactly, sometimes quasi different. And that's totally ok-- different people telling of events. I see no reason to complain about a quote matching exactly or being quasi different.

Scripture / theology / belief should be always approached thoughtfully, with humble prayer.

That is not what we are talking about. You are talking about plates that copy a MAN-MADE (not God inspired) translation from 1200 years later. Now, how is that possible?

Here is the answer. Joseph Smith was a massive fraud who plagiarized the King James Version, tricked dozens of people, and now people are brainwashed into following his false religion to the gates of Hell.

 

[dev553344]

If the Book of Mormon comes from plates that were lost in 428AD until Smith found them, why do they contain over 20,000 words that are a direct verbatim quote from the King James Bible which was not published until 1200 years later?

Good point. I studied the Book of Mormon and read it a few times. Never felt that it was inspired. But I'm still asking God about it. After 20 years he still hasn't answered. And I went to Mormon church and the Holy Spirit kept asking me if it was correct. Like I was supposed to know somehow.

I did have a vision of Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother, but that wasn't until I went to Catholic church for the first few times. So I think the Heavenly Mother may have been Mary, mother of Jesus.

And yes I know you don't believe in God talking to people in this day and age. I'm just sharing my experiences.

 

[theefaith]

My problem is in the fact that he was a Freemason and all the other teaching which is new public revelation which ended with the apostle John!

 

[theefaith]

Matt 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

The heir! singular! Only one!

If Christ had brothers they would be heir and king!

 

[theefaith]

Was Joses a blood brother of Christ?

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

 

[reformed1689]

Was Joses a blood brother of Christ?

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Um, can you stick to the topic?

 

[dev553344]

Matt 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

The heir! singular! Only one!

If Christ had brothers they would be heir and king!

Jesus was testing their authority, the brothers of Jesus were not until later. And the Roman's chose the canon for the bible and started their own church which is now the Catholic Church. So they in fact seized on the heir to the throne and stole his inheritance as many would suggest.

I think it's clear than many do this since there are so many churches out there. Everyone parted his garments.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That is not what we are talking about. You are talking about plates that copy a MAN-MADE (not God inspired) translation from 1200 years later. Now, how is that possible?

Here is the answer. Joseph Smith was a massive fraud who plagiarized the King James Version, tricked dozens of people, and now people are brainwashed into following his false religion to the gates of Hell.

I’m sorry…. But this response is only worthy of an eye roll. I answered respectfully and thoughtfully. If you want to just blatantly ignore answers and accuse others of being unthinking and brainwashed… yep, eye roll it is.

 

[theefaith]

Um, can you stick to the topic?

I did but I had a question for you also

 

[reformed1689]

I’m sorry…. But this response is only worthy of an eye roll. I answered respectfully and thoughtfully. If you want to just blatantly ignore answers and accuse others of being unthinking and brainwashed… yep, eye roll it is.

I did not ignore your answer. I dismissed your answer as invalid.

 

[reformed1689]

I did but I had a question for you also

Not within the confines of this topic you didn't. We are talking about JOSEPH SMITH and the BOOK OF MORMON. Nobody else.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I did not ignore your answer. I dismissed your answer as invalid.

I’m sorry, but I’m not interested in straw man conversation.

Have a nice day.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus was testing their authority, the brothers of Jesus were not until later. And the Roman's chose the canon for the bible and started their own church which is now the Catholic Church. So they in fact seized on the heir to the throne and stole his inheritance as many would suggest.

I think it's clear than many do this since there are so many churches out there. Everyone parted his garments.

there is only one church Jn 10:13 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles all others are heretical sects

 

[reformed1689]

I’m sorry, but I’m not interested in straw man conversation.

Have a nice day.

What part of my answer was a strawman conversation? Do you even know what that is?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What part of my answer was a strawman conversation? Do you even know what that is?

@reformed1689 I’ll be direct here: I’m interested in thoughtful and respectful conversation, preferably centered on Christ. This thread is not that.

 

[reformed1689]

@reformed1689 I’ll be direct here: I’m interested in thoughtful and respectful conversation, preferably centered on Christ. This thread is not that.

So thoughtful: Joseph Smith plagiarized the KJV in the late 1820's and claimed he translated ancient plates that had not been seen since 428AD.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So thoughtful: Joseph Smith plagiarized the KJV in the late 1820's and claimed he translated ancient plates that had not been seen since 428AD.

That’s you reciting your perspective. You’ve already shown that what I say is “invalid” and greatly flamed. That’s not a conversation, nor thoughtful or respectful, nor is this centered on Christ.

 

[dev553344]

That’s you reciting your perspective. You’ve already shown that what I say is “invalid” and greatly flamed. That’s not a conversation, nor thoughtful or respectful, nor is this centered on Christ.

What I found in the process of investigating the Mormon church as a member for 10 years is that you have to accept that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that he received revelation that goes beyond the bible. This cannot be proven without the Holy Ghost testifying to someone. You have to take a lot on someone elses word to be a Mormon. And some of the Mormon teachings go against Jesus' words in the New Testament saying people don't marry in heaven. And then as you have stated your translation of that passage is different than other people. So it's a dead end argument.

I don't think you're going to get an honest discussion with @reformed1689 since he is only stating one idea that doesn't really need to be argued. And he hasn't quoted the passage he finds suspect. If he did then it might be a genuine discussion.