A quick look at Daniel

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,621
2,335
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dan 2. Nebuchadnezzar's Dream of the Great Image. This King of Babylon represented the beginning of a string of 4 successive empires who would rule somewhere between the Mediterranean Sea and the Near East. Each empire conquered the preceding one. The final empire would somehow endure until the Kingdom of Christ.
The last empire was the Roman Empire, which has endured, in a different form in Europe, throughout the NT age. It has been represented by Christian Civilization both in the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire. It has also been represented by various Christian states and empires that ruled from within this former Roman territory, albeit somewhat expanded.

Out of this civilization an Antichristian coalition will assume control of the 4th Empire. Christ's Kingdom will come, destroying this series of empires.

Dan 7. Daniel's Dream of the 4 Beasts. Daniel sees the same series of 4 empires, beginning with Babylon and ending with the Roman Empire. Daniel clearly outlines the Antichristian coalition that assumes control of the 4th Empire. It will be 7 kings (3 are defeated) and 10 states. Again, Christ's Kingdom comes to destroy this series of empires.

Dan 9. Daniel is shown, by an angel, that following a Persian call to restore Jerusalem and the temple (457 BC) there would be a period of 70 weeks of years until the Messiah comes. His death would lead to a new judgment leveled against Jerusalem and the temple. The Messiah would, despite being cut off, establish a fulfillment of God's covenant with Israel, accomplishing 6 major things as listed in Dan 9.24. He would displace the temple system inasmuch as he would cut off sacrifices under the Law and himself become an anointed "Holy Place." Following his death the temple and Jerusalem would be destroyed by an Army, representing the "abomination of desolation." Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

Dan 8 and 11. These chapters speak largely of the Greek Kingdom, the 3rd Empire in the series of 4 empires. It would break into 4 smaller kingdoms, and ultimately be reduced to 2 major powers, Syria and Egypt. Antiochus 4, of Syria, would become a major desolator of the Jewish temple worship, a possible foretaste of the Antichrist, who will devastate God's People, the Church.

Dan 12. This conclusion to the book contains two major events that God used to summarize the book for Daniel. Those 2 future events are the 3.5 years of Antichristian rule, mentioned in Dan 7, and the reign of Antiochus 4, mentioned in Dan 8 and 11. Antiochus reigned 1290 days, which also is roughly 3.5 years. But these two prophecies are separate prophecies in ch. 12.
 

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Dan 12. This conclusion to the book contains two major events that God used to summarize the book for Daniel. Those 2 future events are the 3.5 years of Antichristian rule, mentioned in Dan 7, and the reign of Antiochus 4, mentioned in Dan 8 and 11. Antiochus reigned 1290 days, which also is roughly 3.5 years. But these two prophecies are separate prophecies in ch. 12.

Your hypothesis contains a significant mathematical error.

The reign of antichrist starts long before 3.5 years! First of all, he has to be a powerful world leader, possibly the white horse guy in the 1st seal, who manages to take over and amalgamate a whole lot of nations under his rule. Then he is possibly a significant entity the wars that follow in the 2nd seal.

But he has to have been in power long enough to enter into the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. Beyond that, it takes another 3.5 years before he breaks the treaty, and seizes the Temple seat, declaring himself as God. This entire effort could take many years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,044
919
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Your hypothesis contains a significant mathematical error.

The reign of antichrist starts long before 3.5 years! First of all, he has to be a powerful world leader, possibly the white horse guy in the 1st seal, who manages to take over and amalgamate a whole lot of nations under his rule. Then he is possibly a significant entity the wars that follow in the 2nd seal.

But he has to have been in power long enough to enter into the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. Beyond that, it takes another 3.5 years before he breaks the treaty, and seizes the Temple seat, declaring himself as God. This entire effort could take many years.
I agree with this, Stan. Except for he isn't the rider in the 1st Seal. Those 4 horsemen are merely used as an intro to what has happened during this age.

The leader of the One World Govt, to be established soon after the Sixth seal world changer, must come to power before the commencement of the final seven years of this Church age.
Antiochus reigned 1290 days, which also is roughly 3.5 years
A4E reigned over Jerusalem/Judea for exactly 1150 days - 2300 evenings and mornings; from 167 to 163 BC. All as detailed in 2 Maccabees.
 

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I agree with this, Stan. Except for he isn't the rider in the 1st Seal. Those 4 horsemen are merely used as an intro to what has happened during this age.

The leader of the One World Govt, to be established soon after the Sixth seal world changer, must come to power before the commencement of the final seven years of this Church age.

A4E reigned over Jerusalem/Judea for exactly 1150 days - 2300 evenings and mornings; from 167 to 163 BC. All as detailed in 2 Maccabees.

>>he isn't the rider in the 1st Seal. Those 4 horsemen are merely used as an intro to what has happened during this age.

I suppose we will never agree on this. I believe that the rider of the 1st seal, wearing a crown, is the antichrist. Your mention of the period of the Maccabees, was merely a foretaste of what is to come. Antiochus IV is merely a demonstration of the day when Antiochus V, the antichrist does the very same thing his progenitor did 2,000 years ago.

While the one world government might be established after the 6th sea, and Antiochus V takes his place in the Temple after breaking his peace treaty with Israel, a lot of other things take place after the sixth seal such as the sealing of the 144,000, and the taking up all the saints from out of the tribulation before the 7th seal is opened. Then all Hell breaks loose!

Notwithstanding, I suspect that the World Government will be established after the 2nd seal amidst wars to take over the world.
 

Sabertooth

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2019
1,203
1,129
113
62
Northern Wisconsin
transcendiary.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The OP failed to acknowledge the "clay" [porcelain?] empire. Unlike the previous empires, it did not completely overthrow/displace its predecessor, the Iron/Roman empire, but seceded from it.

The two possible empires that jump out at me are
  1. the British Empire, &
  2. the First French Empire.
The first major Brexit happened in 1534, when Henry VIII ceased to recognize the Vatican as the authority over the Church of England. (I believe that he was the first monarch to do so.)

When the last Holy Roman Emperor, Francis II, lost to Napoleon's First French Empire in 1806, Francis dissolved the Holy Roman Empire. (Napoleon's empire arose out of the French Revolution.) See the first paragraph of Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia

Both of these events were strong influences on the formation of the American [republican] democracy. America and her subsequent clone democracies is the likely descendant empire to the above, if it isn't the clay/porcelain empire, itself.
Democracy < demos, "the people/Man" + -kratia "rule [themselves]."
Adam means both "Man" & "clay."​
 
Last edited:

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,621
2,335
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your hypothesis contains a significant mathematical error.

The reign of antichrist starts long before 3.5 years! First of all, he has to be a powerful world leader, possibly the white horse guy in the 1st seal, who manages to take over and amalgamate a whole lot of nations under his rule. Then he is possibly a significant entity the wars that follow in the 2nd seal.

But he has to have been in power long enough to enter into the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. Beyond that, it takes another 3.5 years before he breaks the treaty, and seizes the Temple seat, declaring himself as God. This entire effort could take many years.

How does that create a mathematical error in my theory? Antiochus 4's reign of terror in Israel approx. 168-164 BC was 1290 days, and yet he lived and reigned longer than that, as well. The 1260 days of Antichrist's reign will be 1260 days, but we have to assume he reigns before that and after that, as well. From the 1260th day to Armageddon may be an unknown number of days. The 2 Witnesses lie dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days. And how long it takes the kings to gather at Armageddon I don't know?
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,621
2,335
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The OP failed to acknowledge the "clay" [porcelain?] empire. Unlike the previous empires, it did not completely overthrow/displace its predecessor, the Iron/Roman empire, but seceded from it.

I believe the 4th Kingdom of Dan 2 and Dan 7 is the Roman Kingdom, which extends well beyond the Roman Empire, East and West. European Civilization carries the kings of this Roman tradition, and they still exist today. And they will continue to exist until Antichrist forms his 10 nation coalition. It is all a single Roman Kingdom, the 4th Kingdom mentioned in Dan 2 and Dan 7.

The two possible empires that jump out at me are
  1. the British Empire, &
  2. the First French Empire.
The first major Brexit happened in 1534, when Henry VIII ceased to recognize the Vatican as the authority over the Church of England. (I believe that he was the first monarch to do so.)

Have you heard of the Investiture Controversy?

When the last Holy Roman Emperor, Francis II, lost to Napoleon's First French Empire in 1806, Francis dissolved the Holy Roman Empire. (Napoleon's empire arose out of the French Revolution.) See the first paragraph of Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia

Both of these events were strong influences on the formation of the American [republican] democracy. America and her subsequent clone democracies is the likely descendant empire to the above, if it isn't the clay/porcelain empire, itself.
Democracy < demos, "the people/Man" + -kratia "rule [themselves]."
Adam means both "Man" & "clay."​

The American Revolution (1776) preceded the French Revolution (1789)!
 

Sabertooth

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2019
1,203
1,129
113
62
Northern Wisconsin
transcendiary.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Have you heard of the Investiture Controversy?
No, I hadn't.

My main observation:
Head of Gold/Babylonian Empire
(was completely replaced by)
Arms & Chest of Silver/Medo-Persian Empire
(was completely replaced by)
Belly & Thighs of Bronze/Greek Empire
(was completely replaced by)
Shanks of Iron/Roman Empire
(was not completely replaced by)
Feet of Clay or Porcelain/????? Empire (mixed with Iron)​

That means that the (fifth &) final iteration of the Babylonian Superdynasty will secede from and coexist with the Iron/Roman Empire (but it will be a tenuous partnership [Daniel 2:43]).
The American Revolution (1776) preceded the French Revolution (1789)!
Thanks for correcting my timeline.
 
Last edited:

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,621
2,335
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, I hadn't.

My main observation:
Head of Gold/Babylonian Empire
(was completely replaced by)
Arms & Chest of Silver/Medo-Persian Empire
(was completely replaced by)
Belly & Thighs of Bronze/Greek Empire
(was completely replaced by)
Shanks of Iron/Roman Empire
(was not completely replaced by)
Feet of Clay or Porcelain/????? Empire (mixed with Iron)​

That means that the (fifth &) final iteration of the Babylonian Superdynasty will secede from and coexist with the Iron/Roman Empire (but it will be a tenuous partnership [Daniel 2:43]).

Thanks for correcting my timeline.

I believe the 4th Kingdom with Legs of Iron extends into a Feet stage of Iron mixed with Clay. I believe this represents a single Kingdom in history, based on the Roman model, and will not evolve into a "5th Kingdom." The Divided Kingdom will contain Iron, just as this Roman model has always had. But inasmuch as it will come to contain Clay as well, this Roman model will change somewhat.

As you suggest, this late form of the Roman Kingdom will not be cohesive. I believe the element of democracy will be in it, weakening the coalition of 10 Toes. This may precipitate the collapse of this Kingdom in the end.

My conviction is that this late stage of the Roman Empire will be the Antichristian Kingdom based in Europe, consisting of 5 Western nations and 5 Eastern nations. I suppose we'll see?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sabertooth

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,044
919
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
The Prophesies of Daniel:

Daniel 2:20-22 Blessed be the Lord’s Name [Jesus] from age to age, for to Him belong wisdom and power. He changes seasons and times, He deposes and sets up kings. He gives wisdom

to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment, revealing deep mysteries: in Him there is light and understanding. Proverbs 8:12-29

Daniel 2:31-33 In your dream, your majesty, you saw a great image. The head of the image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron and its feet of part iron, part clay.


The Assyrian Kingdom – [Sargon]

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion with eagles wings, then its wings were removed and it stood on two feet like a human. It was given the mind of a human.

[This kingdom had already passed by the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. It conquered and sent into exile the ten Northern tribes of Israel]


The Babylonian Kingdom – [Nebuchadnezzar]

Daniel 2:38 You king Nebuchadnezzar, are that head of gold.

Daniel 7:5 The second beast was like a bear, it raised itself up on one side and it had three ribs in its mouth. The command was given: Get up and gorge yourself on flesh. [The Babylonian conquest of Judah]


The Media/Persian Kingdom [King Cyrus]

Daniel 2:32 & 39a...its chest and arms of silver...After you another kingdom will arise that will be inferior to yours

Daniel 8:3-4 & 20 The ram with two horns, Persia and Media.


The Macedonian [Greek] Kingdom. [Alexander the Great]

Daniel 2:32 & 39b ...its belly and thighs of bronze....Next a third kingdom of bronze will rule over the whole earth.

Daniel 7:6 The third beast was like a leopard with four wings like a bird, it had four heads and was given authority to rule. [Alexander’s conquest of the known world]

Daniel 8:5-8 & 20-21 The defeat of the Babylonian Empire, by Alexander. Daniel 11:2

Daniel 8:9-14 & 22 After Alexander’s death, four kingdoms are formed.

Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24 Then they rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

Daniel 11:5-20 This is a description of other historical battles and alliances.


The Roman Empire – [Julius Caesar]

Daniel 2:32-33 & 40 Finally there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, it will dominate all the others, but as its legs represent, this will be a divided kingdom – its people will be a mixture, it will not remain united. [The Western and Eastern Roman Empires]

Daniel 7:7a & 23 The fourth beast, fearsome and very powerful with great iron teeth, crushed and devoured its victims, then trampled what was left.

Daniel 9:26 After sixty two weeks, [434 years] the anointed Prince, [Jesus] will be removed and the army [of Rome] will destroy the city and the Temple. [As fulfilled in 70AD.]


A Last Days resurgence of Rome – [the Anti Christ]

Daniel 2:33 & 42-43...its feet of part iron and part clay....

Daniel 7:7b-8 ... the fourth beast had ten horns, another horn grew up and uprooted three of the ten. That other horn was very imposing and spoke with great power. As I watched this horn waged war on the holy ones and defeated them. Rev 17:12-13, Rev 13:5-8

Daniel 7:23-24 The explanation is this: This fourth kingdom will take over the whole earth, [The One World Government] The ten horns signify the ten divisions of the world, but another man will arise and defeat three of the first leaders.

Daniel 11:21 Another king will come, a person not worthy of recognition, but he will seize power by intrigue and cunning. [a clever and charismatic man]

Daniel 8:23-25 In the last days, when sin is at its height, a powerful king and a master of strategy will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does and will take control of the nations and the holy people. [all the faithful Christians, gathered in all of the holy Land] By cunning and deceit, he will destroy many when they felt secure and did not expect it. He will challenge the ‘Prince of princes’, [the Lord] yet he will be defeated, but not by human hand.

Daniel 9:27 The prince, [The world leader, descended from Rome] will make a treaty with many, [that is: not all of the Christians] for one week, [that is: seven years] but at the mid point, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. [in the new Temple] He will place an ‘abomination’ there, then in the end what has been decreed will come on him.

Daniel 7:25 He will defy God and take control of the holy people for 3½ years. [This is the ‘beast’ of Revelation 13:1-8. The One World leader receives a ‘mortal blow’ and his body is taken over by Satan, commencing the ‘forty two months’ Tribulation period]

Daniel 11:22-45 His army will be victorious and a leader of the Covenant people will be killed. The military forces of the South will be defeated and he will invade the Middle East, but ships of the Western nations will oppose him, so he will turn back. In the holy Land, he will vent his fury against the people who hold to the Covenant, but will show favour to those who forsake it by believing his promises. His soldiers will desecrate the Temple, setting up an ‘abomination of desolation’. Those of the Lord’s people [Christians] who remain faithful to the Lord, will be resolute and take action. Wise leaders of the nation will guide their people, though for a time some may be killed or captured. They will receive a little help, as many who join them are insincere. This is a period of testing, of refining and purification, for the end is yet to be; at the appointed time. Daniel 7:9, Daniel 8:22, Rev. 13:8

Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Tribulation] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumours from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end. Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21


The Kingdom of Jesus – 2 Samuel 22:32

Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance of the whole world is given to the holy people of God. Revelation 20:6

Daniel 12:1-4 At the end of that time, [the Tribulation] Michael, the Archangel of Israel will appear, he will deliver the Lord’s people – everyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Many of the dead will rise, some to eternal life, some to eternal abhorrence. The wise leaders, those who guided the people on the true path, will shine like stars forever.

But you, Daniel, keep this book sealed until the time of the end. Many will try, but will not succeed to gain this knowledge.

Daniel 12:5-10 I asked: How long until the end of these things? It will be for 3½ years, [1260 days] when the holy people regain their strength. I asked: What will the outcome of all this be? Go your way, Daniel, for these prophesies are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Many people will be purified and made righteous, but the godless will keep on in their wickedness and none of them will understand. Daniel 8:22

Daniel 12:11-12 From the time the Anti Christ sets up the ‘abomination of desolation’, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who see the completion of 1335 days!

Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. some verses condensed.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The Prophesies of Daniel:

Daniel 2:20-22 Blessed be the Lord’s Name [Jesus] from age to age, for to Him belong wisdom and power. He changes seasons and times, He deposes and sets up kings. He gives wisdom

to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment, revealing deep mysteries: in Him there is light and understanding. Proverbs 8:12-29

Daniel 2:31-33 In your dream, your majesty, you saw a great image. The head of the image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron and its feet of part iron, part clay.


The Assyrian Kingdom – [Sargon]

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion with eagles wings, then its wings were removed and it stood on two feet like a human. It was given the mind of a human.

[This kingdom had already passed by the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. It conquered and sent into exile the ten Northern tribes of Israel]


The Babylonian Kingdom – [Nebuchadnezzar]

Daniel 2:38 You king Nebuchadnezzar, are that head of gold.

Daniel 7:5 The second beast was like a bear, it raised itself up on one side and it had three ribs in its mouth. The command was given: Get up and gorge yourself on flesh. [The Babylonian conquest of Judah]


The Media/Persian Kingdom [King Cyrus]

Daniel 2:32 & 39a...its chest and arms of silver...After you another kingdom will arise that will be inferior to yours

Daniel 8:3-4 & 20 The ram with two horns, Persia and Media.


The Macedonian [Greek] Kingdom. [Alexander the Great]

Daniel 2:32 & 39b ...its belly and thighs of bronze....Next a third kingdom of bronze will rule over the whole earth.

Daniel 7:6 The third beast was like a leopard with four wings like a bird, it had four heads and was given authority to rule. [Alexander’s conquest of the known world]

Daniel 8:5-8 & 20-21 The defeat of the Babylonian Empire, by Alexander. Daniel 11:2

Daniel 8:9-14 & 22 After Alexander’s death, four kingdoms are formed.

Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24 Then they rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

Daniel 11:5-20 This is a description of other historical battles and alliances.


The Roman Empire – [Julius Caesar]

Daniel 2:32-33 & 40 Finally there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, it will dominate all the others, but as its legs represent, this will be a divided kingdom – its people will be a mixture, it will not remain united. [The Western and Eastern Roman Empires]

Daniel 7:7a & 23 The fourth beast, fearsome and very powerful with great iron teeth, crushed and devoured its victims, then trampled what was left.

Daniel 9:26 After sixty two weeks, [434 years] the anointed Prince, [Jesus] will be removed and the army [of Rome] will destroy the city and the Temple. [As fulfilled in 70AD.]


A Last Days resurgence of Rome – [the Anti Christ]

Daniel 2:33 & 42-43...its feet of part iron and part clay....

Daniel 7:7b-8 ... the fourth beast had ten horns, another horn grew up and uprooted three of the ten. That other horn was very imposing and spoke with great power. As I watched this horn waged war on the holy ones and defeated them. Rev 17:12-13, Rev 13:5-8

Daniel 7:23-24 The explanation is this: This fourth kingdom will take over the whole earth, [The One World Government] The ten horns signify the ten divisions of the world, but another man will arise and defeat three of the first leaders.

Daniel 11:21 Another king will come, a person not worthy of recognition, but he will seize power by intrigue and cunning. [a clever and charismatic man]

Daniel 8:23-25 In the last days, when sin is at its height, a powerful king and a master of strategy will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does and will take control of the nations and the holy people. [all the faithful Christians, gathered in all of the holy Land] By cunning and deceit, he will destroy many when they felt secure and did not expect it. He will challenge the ‘Prince of princes’, [the Lord] yet he will be defeated, but not by human hand.

Daniel 9:27 The prince, [The world leader, descended from Rome] will make a treaty with many, [that is: not all of the Christians] for one week, [that is: seven years] but at the mid point, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. [in the new Temple] He will place an ‘abomination’ there, then in the end what has been decreed will come on him.

Daniel 7:25 He will defy God and take control of the holy people for 3½ years. [This is the ‘beast’ of Revelation 13:1-8. The One World leader receives a ‘mortal blow’ and his body is taken over by Satan, commencing the ‘forty two months’ Tribulation period]

Daniel 11:22-45 His army will be victorious and a leader of the Covenant people will be killed. The military forces of the South will be defeated and he will invade the Middle East, but ships of the Western nations will oppose him, so he will turn back. In the holy Land, he will vent his fury against the people who hold to the Covenant, but will show favour to those who forsake it by believing his promises. His soldiers will desecrate the Temple, setting up an ‘abomination of desolation’. Those of the Lord’s people [Christians] who remain faithful to the Lord, will be resolute and take action. Wise leaders of the nation will guide their people, though for a time some may be killed or captured. They will receive a little help, as many who join them are insincere. This is a period of testing, of refining and purification, for the end is yet to be; at the appointed time. Daniel 7:9, Daniel 8:22, Rev. 13:8

Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Tribulation] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumours from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end. Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21


The Kingdom of Jesus – 2 Samuel 22:32

Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance of the whole world is given to the holy people of God. Revelation 20:6

Daniel 12:1-4 At the end of that time, [the Tribulation] Michael, the Archangel of Israel will appear, he will deliver the Lord’s people – everyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Many of the dead will rise, some to eternal life, some to eternal abhorrence. The wise leaders, those who guided the people on the true path, will shine like stars forever.

But you, Daniel, keep this book sealed until the time of the end. Many will try, but will not succeed to gain this knowledge.

Daniel 12:5-10 I asked: How long until the end of these things? It will be for 3½ years, [1260 days] when the holy people regain their strength. I asked: What will the outcome of all this be? Go your way, Daniel, for these prophesies are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Many people will be purified and made righteous, but the godless will keep on in their wickedness and none of them will understand. Daniel 8:22

Daniel 12:11-12 From the time the Anti Christ sets up the ‘abomination of desolation’, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who see the completion of 1335 days!

Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. some verses condensed.
Keraz, you claim that you are a student of the word but your study has not revealed to you that the kingdoms that had and will have dominion over the land of the Chaldeans are,
1. Babylon
2. The Medes and the Persians
3. The Grecian Empire


The Grecian Empire devastated and desolated the Land of the Chaldeans such that the land lay bare with no people living in the area for a period of around 2,000 years before it was remembered once more before God. The Roman solution was a political tool during the time of the reformation to cast off the influence of the Roman Catholic church over the nations in Europe and as such historically Rome does not figure in the list of nations that had dominion over the land and the people that lived there.

4. Iraq
5. Coalition of the Willing.


(Rev 16:17-21, Jeremiah 50-51, Daniel 2 etc)

Many profit writers on the End Times have moved away from the Roman paradigm and have moved towards an Islamic preference.

But this will become clear within the next 25 years or so from this present time.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,044
919
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Many profit writers on the End Times have moved away from the Roman paradigm and have moved towards an Islamic preference.
Islam and all their holy places, incl the Dome of the Rock will be no more after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath has done what the Prophets say it will. Amos 1, Zephaniah 1:14-18. Ezekiel 30:1-5, +
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Islam and all their holy places, incl the Dome of the Rock will be no more after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath has done what the Prophets say it will. Amos 1, Zephaniah 1:14-18. Ezekiel 30:1-5, +

What you are claiming may be true, but you have not indicated the time when the day of the Lord will occur.

Is the Day of the Lord a near future event, i.e. within the next 30 or so years, or is the day of the Lord a distant future event, i.e. around a 1,000 or so years into the future?

You have expressed an opinion that X will happen, but you have not told when X will happen. Without you establishing the time when the day of the Lord will occur, in your post, I have no means of confirming your response to my post or validating what you are claiming will happen. It just happens that you have simply provided your unsubstantiated opinion
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,044
919
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
What you are claiming may be true, but you have not indicated the time when the day of the Lord will occur.

Is the Day of the Lord a near future event, i.e. within the next 30 or so years, or is the day of the Lord a distant future event, i.e. around a 1,000 or so years into the future?

You have expressed an opinion that X will happen, but you have not told when X will happen. Without you establishing the time when the day of the Lord will occur, in your post, I have no means of confirming your response to my post or validating what you are claiming will happen. It just happens that you have simply provided your unsubstantiated opinion
The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, is the Day that will come as a thief; unexpectedly to everyone.
The best we can do is the discern the signs of the times and from that we can be sure that its close!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, is the Day that will come as a thief; unexpectedly to everyone.
The best we can do is the discern the signs of the times and from that we can be sure that its close!

Is the Day of the Lord a near future event, i.e. within the next 30 or so years, or is the day of the Lord a distant future event, i.e. around a 1,000 or so years into the future?

You have expressed an opinion that X will happen, but you have not told when X will happen. Without you establishing the time when the day of the Lord will occur, in your post, I have no means of confirming your response to my post or validating what you are claiming will happen. It just happens that you have simply provided your unsubstantiated opinion.

You are doing what the Lord told us not to do. You can discern the weather, and when a predicted weather event will occur, but regarding the coming of the Son of Man, you have no earthly understanding.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,044
919
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
You are doing what the Lord told us not to do. You can discern the weather, and when a predicted weather event will occur, but regarding the coming of the Son of Man, you have no earthly understanding.
Quite right, but I do have a heavenly understanding, as the Lord has given us thru His Prophets and is Written in our Bibles.
Your objection, JR; is against the Prophetic Word, not me - I'm just the messenger.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Quite right, but I do have a heavenly understanding, as the Lord has given us thru His Prophets and is Written in our Bibles.
Your objection, JR; is against the Prophetic Word, not me - I'm just the messenger.

That is the trouble that you have to deal with as I do not see your heavenly understanding at all. I see something very different. What I see is akin to what the religious people of Jesus' day saw. Their delusion was based on their understanding of what Christ was coming to do. This was based on the tradition of Scribes and Pharisee and what they read into their scriptures. Does that sound familiar.

You are basing your understanding on the tradition of the flawed translations of the source Hebrew and Greek texts that make up our Bibles of today.

If you were more diligent in your study, you would come to realise this, but the common traditions between the various translations convinces you that they must be right because they all give the same discernible outcomes. It only takes one small error/lie to forge a false understanding in your mind.

Shalom

PS: - For what it is worth, I am more in agreement with the Prophetic word than you because I have spent due diligence in my study of the Prophetic word.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Why then, do you not realize that the Lord is very soon to take action in Hs Creation?

I am on record that the end of this present age will be in around 25 years time plus or minus a year or two. I have also said that at this time God will be judging the Kings of the earth at Armageddon.

Your above claim about how I view the End Times is very false and a flawed argument in support of your own position.

As for your timeline of event, we have interacted on that subject and I have already pointed out the flaws in your calculations in how it was established.

I am happy to wait for the end of this present age to unfold. I may still be around when it does, God willing, but I have seen the evidence that convinces me that my estimation of around 25 years is probably on the money.

One or both of us will be proved wrong in our understanding when this present age ends.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,044
919
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
I am on record that the end of this present age will be in around 25 years time plus or minus a year or two
Will the world just stagger on like it is now for another 25 years?
I and many others who know the Prophetic Word and see the signs, know that the dramatic world changer of the Lords Day of fiery wrath is imminent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo