A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

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Ronald Nolette

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Serious question for all witnesses to answer.

Some facts first.

1. You all in parroting the Watchtower teaching say anyone who celebrates the holidays are worshiping idols or false gods.

2. You write and speak that having a christmas tree= idolatry or even buying gifts at Christmas is a sin. Same with thanksgiving and Valentines day and birthdays. That somehow people are honoring false gods by even acknowledging these as legitimate.

So why do you call teh days of the week the same names as everyone else do? By calling MOnday , Tuesday etc. you are calling the days in honor of the p[agan gods that each of these days were dedicated to!

The Jews and early Christians did not call the days after names of pagan gods. They were the first day of the week, etc.etc. The seven day week was not officialized until the fourth century in the empire and their names also. they were named to honor gods .

so why are you so hypocritical and condemn people who celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of Jesus, but feel it is perfectly okay to name trhe name of pagan gods in honoring the days of teh week?
 
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Berean

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so why are you so hypocritical and condemn people who celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of Jesus, but feel it is perfectly okay to name the name of pagan gods in honoring the days of the week?
If they did that, that would be one more thing to criticize them for. "Look, they published their own Bible, now they're publishing their own calendar."

Truth is, we're surrounded by paganism, and some things you just can't avoid. There are plenty of Christian denominations and Christians who do not celebrate Christmas and other holidays knowing of their pagan origins.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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If they did that, that would be one more thing to criticize them for. "Look, they published their own Bible, now they're publishing their own calendar."

Truth is, we're surrounded by paganism, and some things you just can't avoid. There are plenty of Christian denominations and Christians who do not celebrate Christmas and other holidays knowing of their pagan origins.

And not celebrating is just as okay as celebrating. It is the heart and not eh superficial that God looks at. We tend to be superficial but God is not. That is why we can call the days as all do- for we have not intent of honoring pagan gods by calling "Thursday" Thursday!
 

Aunty Jane

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Serious question for all witnesses to answer.
You know that we are happy to answer any legitimate questions...but we also know that some people jump to erroneous conclusions and then make accusations based on false information.....are you one of those?
Some facts first.

1. You all in parroting the Watchtower teaching say anyone who celebrates the holidays are worshiping idols or false gods.
First of all we need to clarify....we are NOT the Watchtower......we are Jehovah's Witnesses, and we identify as Christ's disciples. If others do not believe as we do, then that is between them and the god they worship. We will state our beliefs and what scripture backs them up and leave to the readers to decide if it rings true for them. God will do the rest.

It never seems to occur to those in Christendom that they do not have a single occasion that is celebrated religiously, that does not have pagan roots. Why borrow pagan celebrations and customs as if these somehow don't offend the true God?

According to 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, we are not to combine the truth with false religious customs or beliefs. We can show you where all your celebrations come from. "What portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?"

2. You write and speak that having a christmas tree= idolatry or even buying gifts at Christmas is a sin. Same with thanksgiving and Valentines day and birthdays. That somehow people are honoring false gods by even acknowledging these as legitimate.
These are not legitimate occasions for Christ's disciples. The reason is stated here. No sharing with spiritually "unclean" false religious practices.

Paul wrote....
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? (the devil) Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,

18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”


We have to "go out from those" who try to combine truth with pagan celebrations...otherwise God will not take us in as his "sons and daughters"....

You can do whatever you wish, because we are not your judge......you don't have to answer to us at all....but you do have to answer to Jesus Christ...the judge of us all....and you will never be able to claim ignorance of these facts.


So why do you call teh days of the week the same names as everyone else do? By calling MOnday , Tuesday etc. you are calling the days in honor of the p[agan gods that each of these days were dedicated to!
The Jews and early Christians did not call the days after names of pagan gods. They were the first day of the week, etc.etc. The seven day week was not officialized until the fourth century in the empire and their names also. they were named to honor gods .
The Jews and early Christians were Jewish and followed their own calendar.
Do you know who retained the names of the pagan gods? It was Pope Gregory (that's why its called the Gregorian calendar) The Julian calendar was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46 B.C.E., to give the Roman people a solar-year time arrangement in place of the lunar year. The Julian calendar consists of 365 days in a year, with the exception that on each fourth year (leap year), one day is added, to make it 366 days. However, in the course of time, it was found that the Julian calendar was inaccurate, so in 1582, Pope Gregory XIII introduced a slight revision, instituting what is now known as the Gregorian calendar.

Gregory had a really good opportunity as Pope to change the names of those months and days of the week.....yet he didn't...perhaps we need to ask the Catholic church why he didn't.

We have to live in the world.....so what they call their days and months has nothing to do with us. What makes you think that is something we have jurisdiction over?
so why are you so hypocritical and condemn people who celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of Jesus, but feel it is perfectly okay to name trhe name of pagan gods in honoring the days of teh week?
The world will do what the world will do.....we are not concerned with what the world does...we are told to be "no part" of it.....they can call their days and months whatever they want. God will change it all in his due time.

If you don't know the pagan roots of what you celebrate as "Christian" events, then perhaps you need to read 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 again, and understand that God was there when the pagans were serving their false gods with all the same customs as people take part in today.

Jesus is not honored at all in what has become a "greedfest" of disgusting commercialism. Who is the main focus at Christmastime....not Jesus.
You see those nativity scenes in the mall with the wise men and the baby Jesus in the manger? The magi were never there. By the time they got to find him by following the star to Herod in Jerusalem, he was no longer a newborn. The star led them to a man who was a jealous tyrant and who had innocent babies put to death to save his family dynasty from any new "King of the Jews".
Only once Herod had hatched his murderous plot did the star lead them to the "young child" who by then was living in a house with his parents. God warned them not to return to Herod. They were dupes, used by satan to destroy the child before he even had a chance to grow up.

Ever wondered why Santa is an anagram of satan?

Do you wonder where the word "Easter" came from....it's not in the Bible because Easter was the name of a pagan fertility goddess whose emblems were rabbits and eggs.....where is the honor for Christ in that?

Sounds like you need to do some homework.....its all online so no one has an excuse for ignorance.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Gregory had a really good opportunity as Pope to change the names of those months and days of the week.....yet he didn't...perhaps we need to ask the Catholic church why he didn't.

We have to live in the world.....so what they call their days and months has nothing to do with us. What makes you think that is something we have jurisdiction over?

So why do you call on the name of a false god when you say it is Thursday? (Thors day)

and if you can biblically explain to us how celebrating Christs birthday on Dec. 25th in honor of Him coming into the world to pay for our sins is somehow worshipping idols, I am all ears! I am not talking about having a tree. I am talking about people worshipping false gods on that day! that is the definition of idolatry. If someone worships the tree or saturn or Bacchus- I agree with you 100% otherwise the bible says this:

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

If a person chooses a day to honor the Lord who do you think you are or who does Jehovahs Witnesses and the Watchtower think they are judging that person?????
 

Aunty Jane

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So why do you call on the name of a false god when you say it is Thursday? (Thors day)
Well, I don't.....any more that I would call a child whose parents named her "Wednesday" would be calling on a false god.
As I said, we have to live in satan's world, as God permits, and the devil can call anything whatever he wishes, because its not permanent.
I am not worshipping a false god every day of the week any more than you are.

and if you can biblically explain to us how celebrating Christs birthday on Dec. 25th in honor of Him coming into the world to pay for our sins is somehow worshipping idols, I am all ears!
I already did explain biblically how celebrating Christ's birth is counter to what Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.....

Here it is again....from the KJV.....
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

"The Lord Almighty" is Yahweh. He is the one who says NOT to blend true worship with false worship...there is to be NO SHARING of pagan ideas and practices with his true worship....the Jews tried that on a few times and God punished them for it.
Christendom shares all her "holy days" with pagan gods. One can only ask why?

What does God say...?
"come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.....
Spiritually "UNCLEAN" celebrations are still offensive to the God who was there when the pagans celebrated those very same things centuries ago under another name. Introducing pagan celebrations into Christianity did not "Christianize" the paganism, but "paganized" the Christianity.

Do you know why Christ's birthdate in not recorded in the Bible?
Do you know why no birthdays are recorded in the Bible, except for Herod and Pharaoh? (neither of whom were worshippers of the true God.)

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 gives us the answer....
"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee." (KJV)

Here Yahweh forbade any connection to things that involved spiritism or false worship. Spiritistic practices were an "abomination unto the Lord" and because of those very practices, the Canaanites were driven out of the land that God gifted to his people.

The reason why birthdays were not celebrated by the Jews is because of its association with spiritism...divination (the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means) The celebration of birthdays was to divine the future of the child born on a certain day under their astrological star signs. Horoscopes cast on the birthdate would then foretell what the child's life would turn out to be.
There was a cake with lighted tapers to ward of evil spirits, and there were the "wishes" and gifts that accompanied the celebration of the birthday.

God's command was to stay away from all such celebrations. That is why we do....Jesus would not have celebrated his own birthday, let alone approve of what satan's world has done with what is thought by many to be a genuine "Christian" celebration. Most people know that Christ was not born on December 25th.....he was probably born in October....so where did December 25th come from?

The celebration that turned in to Christmas is a mix of Roman and Norse mythology. Half the customs come from the Roman Saturnalia which honored Mythra who was the god of the unconquered sun.....born on the 25th of December....honoring the "risen sun" gave way to honoring the "risen son"....hardly noticeable is it?

......and all the other stuff comes from Norse customs associated with the winter solstice. Christ was never IN Christmas.


If a person chooses a day to honor the Lord who do you think you are or who does Jehovahs Witnesses and the Watchtower think they are judging that person?????
Why choose the birthday of a foreign god to honor Christ? Are we commanded to celebrate his birthday? Since Jews did not celebrate birthdays at all and the date of Jesus' birth is not known, who do you suppose wants you to dishonor the son by following paganism to celebrate something God's people were told NOT to do? :ummm:

You can celebrate whatever you wish.....but these will never have God's approval.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Well, I don't.....any more that I would call a child whose parents named her "Wednesday" would be calling on a false god.
As I said, we have to live in satan's world, as God permits, and the devil can call anything whatever he wishes, because its not permanent.
I am not worshipping a false god every day of the week any more than you are.

So why do you believe that people putting a tree up to honor Jesus birth is idolatry? All I know do not worship Saturnalia, or Bacchus with teh trappings of Christmas.
I already did explain biblically how celebrating Christ's birth is counter to what Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.....

Here it is again....from the KJV.....
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

No you falsely applied a verse to what people are doing to honor Jesus!

Teh same apostle said this:

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

God looks on the heart. The Watchtower has taught you to look just on the surface. You condemn someone honoring Jesus with a Christmas tree, but excuse yourself for nasming a false god on certain days, That is rank hypocrisy.
"come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.....
Spiritually "UNCLEAN" celebrations are still offensive to the God who was there when the pagans celebrated those very same things centuries ago under another name. Introducing pagan celebrations into Christianity did not "Christianize" the paganism, but "paganized" the Christianity.
So to you I guess pine trees are the source of evil.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 gives us the answer....
"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee." (KJV)

Here Yahweh forbade any connection to things that involved spiritism or false worship. Spiritistic practices were an "abomination unto the Lord" and because of those very practices, the Canaanites were driven out of the land that God gifted to his people.

The reason why birthdays were not celebrated by the Jews is because of its association with spiritism...divination (the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means) The celebration of birthdays was to divine the future of the child born on a certain day under their astrological star signs. Horoscopes cast on the birthdate would then foretell what the child's life would turn out to be.
There was a cake with lighted tapers to ward of evil spirits, and there were the "wishes" and gifts that accompanied the celebration of the birthday


I really hope you are not saying those who observed times were celebrating birthdays? Even teh Watchtower cannot be that ignorant of history.

There is nothing in Gods Word to forbid or allow celebrating birthdays (though Job did) and the Jews celebrated at least one birthday- for bar or bat mitzvah! So if it is not forbidden it is left to individuals as Paul said in Romans 14 to decide before God themself!
The reason why birthdays were not celebrated by the Jews is because of its association with spiritism...divination (the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means) The celebration of birthdays was to divine the future of the child born on a certain day under their astrological star signs. Horoscopes cast on the birthdate would then foretell what the child's life would turn out to be.
There was a cake with lighted tapers to ward of evil spirits, and there were the "wishes" and gifts that accompanied the celebration of the birthday.

God's command was to stay away from all such celebrations. That is why we do....Jesus would not have celebrated his own birthday, let alone approve of what satan's world has done with what is thought by many to be a genuine "Christian" celebration. Most people know that Christ was not born on December 25th.....he was probably born in October....so where did December 25th come from?

I agree that Jesus was most likely born in late Sept. Early OCt. and Dec. 25th was given as a compromise by the nascent RCC. Early Christians would go and celebrate the pagan festival. They could come out of hiding and with symbols be able to greet each other.

But I await your historical proof that birthdays were designed for the practice of divination.
......and all the other stuff comes from Norse customs associated with the winter solstice. Christ was never IN Christmas.

Every day belongs to Jesus! God is not so terrfied that He cowers in fear if Jesus' followers honor Jesus on Dec. 25th! Once again you have been indoctrinated to look on the surface- God looks on the heart!
Why choose the birthday of a foreign god to honor Christ? Are we commanded to celebrate his birthday? Since Jews did not celebrate birthdays at all and the date of Jesus' birth is not known, who do you suppose wants you to dishonor the son by following paganism to celebrate something God's people were told NOT to do? :ummm:

And we are not commanded to not celebrate. If one does it to honor God directly (and that means they are not worshipping materialism, saturnalia, bacchus or any other entity or thing, but rejoicing in the birth of the Lord Jesus) God will approve:

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.You need to learn that it is not so much what we celebrate with, but to whom is the celebration directed to and for whose honor. All 365 days of the year belong to teh Lord and if I wish to dress up my home on one day to celelbrate God sending Emmanuel to earth to reddem me from my sins- neither you nor that lying organization has the right to condemn me for it.

If I worshipped the tree, or materialism or saturnalia or Bachus (over 99% of the world I believe do not even know who these characters are) then you have a case- otherwise you are just acting like a Pharisee! Looking to stay pure on the outside of the cup- but inside........
 

Aunty Jane

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So why do you believe that people putting a tree up to honor Jesus birth is idolatry? All I know do not worship Saturnalia, or Bacchus with teh trappings of Christmas.
Why? Because the original celebration was held in honor of a false god....all that changed was the name.
Can I give you a Biblical example...? Exodus 32....

When Israel were liberated from Egypt, they collectively entered into a covenant to obey their God and to keep his laws.....they did so of their own volition.
When Moses went up into the mountain to receive the laws in detail, he was taking too long (according to their opinion) so they decided to hold “a festival to Yahweh” and they coerced Aaron into making a “god” for them to use in their worship...they all contributed what gold they had and he fashioned a golden calf, (something worshipped in Egypt)......and they started to celebrate by using this image that they called “Yahweh”.

What was God’s response? Moses was so incensed that he threw down the tablets upon which God had written the Ten Commandments and demanded an explanation . He then gave the people an ultimatum to serve the true God through his mediator, or to continue supporting worship of this idol. About 3,000 were killed and God plagued the people for their sin.

If you call the tree something else, it’s still the symbol of a false god. You know it’s origins and yet you still want to justify the celebration....why? Because you like it. The golden calf had nothing to do with “Yahweh” and the “Christmas” tree has nothing to do with “Christ”.

No you falsely applied a verse to what people are doing to honor Jesus!
You cannot honor Jesus with the trappings of false worship as 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 clearly states.
You are fusing false worship with God’s worship......there is no excuse for that. Every one of Christendom’s “holy days” are based on false worship. Give your excuses to Jehovah....we are not your judge.

The very fact that you are so vehemently justifying your actions indicates to me that you know in your heart that it’s wrong, but you don’t want to give it up. If you had no misgivings then what we believe would not matter to you.....it bothers you though.

God looks on the heart. The Watchtower has taught you to look just on the surface. You condemn someone honoring Jesus with a Christmas tree, but excuse yourself for nasming a false god on certain days, That is rank hypocrisy.
A heart that justifies what God condemns is a deceptive one. I can’t control what the world calls the days and months of the year....I can however choose NOT to participate in what is clearly a renamed Roman Saturnalia with pagan Norse winter trappings. Calling them “Christian” does not alter their roots.

So to you I guess pine trees are the source of evil.
LOL....they are when they represent false worship.
You did not address the fact that there are no birthdays ever mentioned among God’s worshippers in the Bible....not OT or NT.
Jesus was Jewish and would not have celebrated his own birthday. It was viewed as a pagan custom and it had spiritistic overtones.

Even the magi who followed the star to locate the one born to be "king of the Jews" were pagan astrologers from Babylon.
They followed "his star".....and it led them to the man who tried to kill him. That cherished "star" on the top of that Christmas tree was from the devil, using pagan worshippers as dupes to get rid of Jesus before he could even grow up.

The nativity scenes depicting the wise men at the stable are false...they were never there. So much about Christmas is based on lies.
Do you care? Apparently not.
 

Aunty Jane

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I really hope you are not saying those who observed times were celebrating birthdays? Even teh Watchtower cannot be that ignorant of history.
There is nothing in Gods Word to forbid or allow celebrating birthdays (though Job did) and the Jews celebrated at least one birthday- for bar or bat mitzvah! So if it is not forbidden it is left to individuals as Paul said in Romans 14 to decide before God themself!
There is nothing in the book of Job to indicate that his children celebrated birthdays. They had a custom in this pre-Israel time of the Patriarchs to hold family gatherings in turn at each other’s homes.
The Jewish Tanakh renders that passage in Job 1:4-5...

"Now his sons would go and make a feast in each one's house on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

5 Now it would come about when the cycle of the feasting days would be over, that Job would send and summon them, and offer up burnt-offerings early in the morning burnt- offerings according to the number of all of them, for Job said, "Perhaps my sons have sinned and blasphemed God in their hearts." So would Job do all the days."
:
What we choose to do after being informed of God’s view, is entirely up to us. We all decide our own destiny by the choices we make.....we will all stand before the same judge.
I agree that Jesus was most likely born in late Sept. Early OCt. and Dec. 25th was given as a compromise by the nascent RCC. Early Christians would go and celebrate the pagan festival. They could come out of hiding and with symbols be able to greet each other.
The first Christians would NEVER have compromised what Christ taught them....after the apostolic period, and the completion of what would become the NT part of God’s word, Jesus warned that Christianity would be assailed by a counterfeit created by the devil. That counterfeit introduced their own “golden calves” and gained power over time to become the only “Christianity” that people knew.....the RCC never followed Christ’s teachings....and they introduced all manner of renamed celebrations so that the pagans would feel right at home with the newly mandated state religion of the Roman Empire. The emperor who introduced it was never a Christian....he was a worshipper of Zeus till the day he died.
But I await your historical proof that birthdays were designed for the practice of divination.
All birthday customs are imported from the practices of the Canaanites, whom the Jews entering the Promised Land, were warned NOT to imitate. The spiritistic overtones are all still there, and people blindly do the devil’s bidding by indulging in these customs as if they had no pagan roots.

If Jesus did not celebrate birthdays....then why would we, knowing where they come from?
We have one “birthday”...the day we came into the world.....anniversaries of that day are nothing more than an excuse to indulge an individual as the “special one” for that day. Like all of these fake “holy days”, these are times for “receiving” when Jesus emphasized “giving”.

Many people today dread Christmas because of the expense incurred in the “giving”. They lie to their children about ”Santa Claus” who replaces Jesus in the minds of children until they find out that he isn’t real. For some children that is a devastating revelation.
What else have their parents lied to them about?...the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy come to mind.
Every day belongs to Jesus! God is not so terrfied that He cowers in fear if Jesus' followers honor Jesus on Dec. 25th! Once again you have been indoctrinated to look on the surface- God looks on the heart!
Who said God is terrified? He is righteous and true and will not tolerate false worship in any form.
God most certainly looks at the heart, particularly those who want to justify what is not justifiable according to scripture. He sees when someone wants to hold onto something he has told them not to “touch”.

And we are not commanded to not celebrate. If one does it to honor God directly (and that means they are not worshipping materialism, saturnalia, bacchus or any other entity or thing, but rejoicing in the birth of the Lord Jesus) God will approve:
If you think so, all I can do is allow God himself to inform you, which he will do, when his son comes as judge. If we are to “touch nothing unclean”, we first have to recognize what is spiritually “unclean” in God’s eyes...not ours. The easiest person to fool is ourselves because we have a ‘partner in crime’ within us....our own ‘desperate and treacherous heart’, which will justify all manner of things that are condemned by God. (Jeremiah 17:9) We have to love him more than we love ourselves.
If I worshipped the tree, or materialism or saturnalia or Bachus (over 99% of the world I believe do not even know who these characters are) then you have a case- otherwise you are just acting like a Pharisee! Looking to stay pure on the outside of the cup- but inside........
That is called justification....let’s see what God has to say....it’s the last days, so we might not have to wait too long.
You can do whatever you choose to do concerning the “holy days” held by Christendom, and as we know, Christ will be the one to tell us if we have “done the will of God” or whether we have ignored his will in order to carry out our own. (Matthew 7:21-23)

It’s about choices...we all have them.
 

Ronald Nolette

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If you call the tree something else, it’s still the symbol of a false god. You know it’s origins and yet you still want to justify the celebration....why? Because you like it. The golden calf had nothing to do with “Yahweh” and the “Christmas” tree has nothing to do with “Christ”.

Well that is your opinion, but not the bibles. Once again if people worshipped a tree at Christmas, I would agree, but as paul said in Corinthisas, an idol is nothing. A tree only haspower that people give it.

I can have a golden calf in my home and it means nothing, Unless I associate it with the ancinet worship practices.

Like Paul said in romans 14 your faith is weak.
There is nothing in the book of Job to indicate that his children celebrated birthdays. They had a custom in this pre-Israel time of the Patriarchs to hold family gatherings in turn at each other’s homes.
The Jewish Tanakh renders that passage in Job 1:4-5...

"Now his sons would go and make a feast in each one's house on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

5 Now it would come about when the cycle of the feasting days would be over, that Job would send and summon them, and offer up burnt-offerings early in the morning burnt- offerings according to the number of all of them, for Job said, "Perhaps my sons have sinned and blasphemed God in their hearts." So would Job do all the days."


That is because you have not been taight Hebrew at all.
When Moses went up into the mountain to receive the laws in detail, he was taking too long (according to their opinion) so they decided to hold “a festival to Yahweh” and they coerced Aaron into making a “god” for them to use in their worship...they all contributed what gold they had and he fashioned a golden calf, (something worshipped in Egypt)......and they started to celebrate by using this image that they called “Yahweh”.


You can't even see the answer you write because of the false teachings.

AAron made a god! If people do not make a tree a god- it is fine!
All birthday customs are imported from the practices of the Canaanites, whom the Jews entering the Promised Land, were warned NOT to imitate. The spiritistic overtones are all still there, and people blindly do the devil’s bidding by indulging in these customs as if they had no pagan roots.

Still awaiting the proof of this allegation.
If Jesus did not celebrate birthdays....then why would we, knowing where they come from?
We have one “birthday”...the day we came into the world.....anniversaries of that day are nothing more than an excuse to indulge an individual as the “special one” for that day. Like all of these fake “holy days”, these are times for “receiving” when Jesus emphasized “giving”.

Well you know what jesus did every single day He was on earth? Please enlighten us.
Many people today dread Christmas because of the expense incurred in the “giving”. They lie to their children about ”Santa Claus” who replaces Jesus in the minds of children until they find out that he isn’t real. For some children that is a devastating revelation.
What else have their parents lied to them about?...the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy come to mind.

And all this has nothing to do with why we were discussing. This is another topic.
Who said God is terrified? He is righteous and true and will not tolerate false worship in any form.
God most certainly looks at the heart, particularly those who want to justify what is not justifiable according to scripture. He sees when someone wants to hold onto something he has told them not to “touch”.

One can celebrate Christmas 365 days a year if they choose. God will never forbid one particular day just because pagans wrecked the concept. If so we should rethink the virgin birth for this was taught in pagan circles long before it was prophesied to Israel.
If you think so, all I can do is allow God himself to inform you, which he will do, when his son comes as judge. If we are to “touch nothing unclean”, we first have to recognize what is spiritually “unclean” in God’s eyes...not ours. The easiest person to fool is ourselves because we have a ‘partner in crime’ within us....our own ‘desperate and treacherous heart’, which will justify all manner of things that are condemned by God. (Jeremiah 17:9) We have to love him more than we love ourselves.

If you wish to be consistent- then do not touch th edays of the week. They are unclean because they are dedicated to false gods or the planets which housed false gods. You who are so hung up about celebrating Christs birth and come up with lame excuses.
That is called justification....let’s see what God has to say....it’s the last days, so we might not have to wait too long.
You can do whatever you choose to do concerning the “holy days” held by Christendom, and as we know, Christ will be the one to tell us if we have “done the will of God” or whether we have ignored his will in order to carry out our own. (Matthew 7:21-23)

It’s about choices...we all have them.


Now you are moving the goal posts by adding "holy days" I do not consider Christma s a holy day, nor easter or good friday! So your point is inane and irrelavent.
 

Aunty Jane

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@Ronald Nolette ......I will just leave your post as it stands for all to see how justification works.

We will all know soon enough who has the wrong attitude to these things, and who is trying to justify things that God has told us not to “touch”. You will never be able to claim ignorance of the facts.
 

Ronald Nolette

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@Ronald Nolette ......I will just leave your post as it stands for all to see how justification works.

We will all know soon enough who has the wrong attitude to these things, and who is trying to justify things that God has told us not to “touch”. You will never be able to claim ignorance of the facts.
Nor will you. so we will see at the great white throne judgment seat of God!
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Serious question for all witnesses to answer.

Some facts first.

1. You all in parroting the Watchtower teaching say anyone who celebrates the holidays are worshiping idols or false gods.

2. You write and speak that having a christmas tree= idolatry or even buying gifts at Christmas is a sin. Same with thanksgiving and Valentines day and birthdays. That somehow people are honoring false gods by even acknowledging these as legitimate.

So why do you call teh days of the week the same names as everyone else do? By calling MOnday , Tuesday etc. you are calling the days in honor of the p[agan gods that each of these days were dedicated to!

The Jews and early Christians did not call the days after names of pagan gods. They were the first day of the week, etc.etc. The seven day week was not officialized until the fourth century in the empire and their names also. they were named to honor gods .

so why are you so hypocritical and condemn people who celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of Jesus, but feel it is perfectly okay to name trhe name of pagan gods in honoring the days of teh week?
These holidays that people keep bringing up, you will find nowhere in the scriptures that we are to observe these holidays. They have nothing to do with the truth which is the inspired word of God. So anyone trying to tell any person, that they're wrong, even by implying it, that a person/persons are wrong for not observing these holidays, are simply trying to get people to observe commandments of men. Noone can show from scripture that these holidays are to be observed when it comes to God inspired word of truth. So even implying that true Christians are to observe these holidays because that's what true Christians are supposed to do, is a lie. It's not part of God inspired word of truth.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Ronald Nolette said,
No you falsely applied a verse to what people are doing to honor Jesus![/Quote\]

Where in the scriptures does it say we are to observe Christmas, or Easter, or St Valentine's Day, etc? God's inspired Word tells us how we are to remember Jesus, and it has nothing to do with Christmas or Easter or any other day imperfect men say we are to observe. That way that God's inspired word tells us how we are to remember Jesus should be more important to true Christians that any day or way that imperfect men, say we should remember Jesus.
 

Ronald Nolette

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These holidays that people keep bringing up, you will find nowhere in the scriptures that we are to observe these holidays. They have nothing to do with the truth which is the inspired word of God. So anyone trying to tell any person, that they're wrong, even by implying it, that a person/persons are wrong for not observing these holidays, are simply trying to get people to observe commandments of men. Noone can show from scripture that these holidays are to be observed when it comes to God inspired word of truth. So even implying that true Christians are to observe these holidays because that's what true Christians are supposed to do, is a lie. It's not part of God inspired word of truth.

Well as you are imply some kind of holy day of obligation, I agree with you. But as I am simply saying celebrate to honor Jehovah Jesus- they are fine. There is no command to celebrate, nor is there a command to not celebrate. that means Romans 14 is the operating passage to guide on whether they will or not.
 

Keiw

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Serious question for all witnesses to answer.

Some facts first.

1. You all in parroting the Watchtower teaching say anyone who celebrates the holidays are worshiping idols or false gods.

2. You write and speak that having a christmas tree= idolatry or even buying gifts at Christmas is a sin. Same with thanksgiving and Valentines day and birthdays. That somehow people are honoring false gods by even acknowledging these as legitimate.

So why do you call teh days of the week the same names as everyone else do? By calling MOnday , Tuesday etc. you are calling the days in honor of the p[agan gods that each of these days were dedicated to!

The Jews and early Christians did not call the days after names of pagan gods. They were the first day of the week, etc.etc. The seven day week was not officialized until the fourth century in the empire and their names also. they were named to honor gods .

so why are you so hypocritical and condemn people who celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of Jesus, but feel it is perfectly okay to name trhe name of pagan gods in honoring the days of teh week?
You are in error. JW,s do not say those are worshipping Idols. There are many false Gods being worshipped. But as far as the holidays go, its a matter of partaking off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) that is being done. The encyclopedias are filled with facts clearly showing the added pagan practices off the table of demons in many worlds celebrations, including Easter and Christmas.
Valentines day has a true life false god attached=Cupid, was worshipped for centuries by the Greeks. One of satans #1 tools, mislead the parents so they hand down to their own children pagan practices off the table of demons. It occurs from generation to generation.
Christmas-was the saturnalia festival, Exchanging of Gifts and feasting marked that celebration, worship to the sun God. The new Catholic encyclopedia says-- On Dec 25 274-Aurelian had proclaimed the sun God principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome. Not to mention santa unscrambles to satan, and he steals 98% of that holiday. And associating a lie about a santa claus to ones own children and applying it to a celebration to Jesus.
Easter--The Catholic Encyclopedia says-- A great many pagan customs celebrating the return of spring gravitated to Easter. The egg and rabbit is a pagan symbol an emblem of infertility.) The dyed eggs of Pasch, and hot cross buns taken from the Chaldean rites of spring.
In the 2 babylons by Alexander Hislop-- The very name easter comes from Chaldean origin. Easter is nothing less than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, Whose name As found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments Is Ishtar( pronounced-easter)

I hope this clears it up for you.

1Cor10:21--One CANNOT partake off the table of God and the table of demons.
 

Angel Faith

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As I understand it even pictures are considered idols, idolatry. That would mean there can be no pictures in any JW publication.
There are images in the JW publication, “SHEPHERD THEFLOCKOFGOD” —1PETER5:2''

Then there's the Joseph Rutherford letter to Hitler giving the societies support. Rutherford was president of the Jehovah's Witnesses at the time.
 

Keiw

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As I understand it even pictures are considered idols, idolatry. That would mean there can be no pictures in any JW publication.
There are images in the JW publication, “SHEPHERD THEFLOCKOFGOD” —1PETER5:2''

Then there's the Joseph Rutherford letter to Hitler giving the societies support. Rutherford was president of the Jehovah's Witnesses at the time.
That is absurd. When the JW,s were in the concentration camps being murdered, Rutherford would not support Hitler ever. Maybe they twist what Rutherford said.
I never heard pictures were idols. Idolotry lives within one.