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Featured A Short "Mllinninal" Primer

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Willie T, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    A little something for those who might be confused about this "pre" and "post" stuff.

    An area of interest in Protestant eschatology concerns the details of the end times. Christians have always enjoyed speculating about origins and endings, and it is hardly surprising that this area of theology proved to have the capacity to engage the popular imagination. Early Protestantism was reluctant to engage with such issues, believing that speculation about when the end of the world might take place was likely to inflame passions and distract people from the more serious business of reforming the church and sorting out the problems of contemporary society. However, the debate flared up again in the nineteenth century, particularly within American Protestantism, and it has continued unabated since then.

    Much of the debate has centered on the “millennium,” an idea mentioned in the Book of Revelation, which brings the New Testament canon to its close (Revelation 20:2–5). The millennium refers to the hope of a restored earthly kingdom lasting for a period of one thousand years and separating the second coming of Christ and the subsequent establishment of a totally new cosmic order. Although some early Christian writers — such as Irenaeus of Lyons — interpreted this passage literally, a consensus developed that it should be understood figuratively. The reference to a period of a thousand years should not be understood as a literal prediction of the chronological duration of an earthly kingdom, but as an allegorical indication of the grandeur of the heavenly kingdom.

    One of the most distinctive features of contemporary American conservative Protestantism is its rediscovery of the idea of the millennium, which it has understood in three ways — again, reflecting different approaches to the interpretation of the Bible. The traditional Protestant disinclination to speculate about the end times is now named the “amillennial” approach and is contrasted with two approaches that make much greater use of the notion of the millennium.

    The postmillennial viewpoint was particularly influential in American Protestantism during the nineteenth century. It holds that Christ will return at the close of a long period (not necessarily lasting one thousand years) of righteousness and peace, commonly called the millennium. Leading conservative Protestant theologians, such as the Princeton academics Charles B. Hodge (1797–1878) and Benjamin B. Warfield (1851–1921), took the view that God is bringing about his purposes through steady human progress over evil that will progressively lead to a Christianized world. Postmillennialism sees the church as playing a major role in transforming whole social structures before the Second Coming of Christ and endeavoring to bring about a golden age of peace and prosperity with great advances in education, the arts, the sciences, and medicine. During this process, the church will rise in power, influence, and integrity, serving as the standard bearer for the coming kingdom of God on earth. Its credibility was severely damaged by the suffering and damage of the First and Second World Wars, both of which increased the appeal of premillennialism, especially in North America.

    The premillennial viewpoint holds that the figure known as “the Antichrist” will appear on earth, ushering in a seven-year period of suffering known as “the Tribulation.” This great period of destruction, war, and disaster will finally be ended by God defeating evil at the battle of Armageddon. After this, Christ will return to earth to rule for a period of a thousand years (the millennium), during which time the forces of evil will finally be subdued and conquered.

    Premillennialism offers the strongly pessimistic view that things are deteriorating on earth and will go on doing so until God brings history to an end. This view resonates deeply with the sense of cultural alienation shared by many conservative American Protestants, especially its belief that anti-Christian forces are gaining the upper hand in America, as in the world in general. But since premillennialists see the degeneration of the world as a sign that the end of the world is near, they can view this negative development as a harbinger of something positive.

    Beliefs about the end times have had a major impact on American popular Protestantism, as is evident from the huge sales of fiction and nonfiction works reflecting these standpoints. Hal Lindsey’s end-times book The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) was one of the best-selling novels of that decade. More recently, the best-selling “Left Behind” novels, written by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, have ensured that premillennial ideology retains a high profile across America. In a similar vein, John Hagee, senior pastor of an evangelical mega-church in San Antonio, Texas, has penned a series of end-time novels, including Devil’s Island (2001), that reflect a fascination with the interconnection between the politics of the Middle East and the end of the world.

    The brief engagement with some aspects of Protestant teachings offered by various forum members here has touched on some of its most distinctive beliefs, while at the same time noting the diversity within the movement. The movement’s shared commitment to the authority of the Bible does not lead to a common mind on how the Bible is to be interpreted. This is not seen as a particular problem, except for those who mistakenly hold that the principle of the “clarity of scripture” demands total uniformity of interpretation on all matters.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  2. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    As demonstrated in the above quote, our understanding of the events of the End Times is distorted by how we understanding and interpret the scriptures.

    The battle at Armageddon is a near future event, when the Wicked fallen heavenly hosts will be judged by God in heaven at the same time that God will judge the kings of the earth on the earth and they will all, both the kings of the earth and the judged heavenly hosts, assemble on the face of the earth to be locked up in the Abyss/cistern for many days, i.e. 1,000 years before they will be release just prior to receiving their punishment. (Isa. 24:19-23 which spans a time period of around 1,260 years.

    Our understanding of how these events of the End Times fit together is being strangled by the insistence of some that the Book of Revelation is linear account of the events that are to happen during the end time.

    Dan. 9:27 prophecy will not occur until after the Abyss in unlocked after the 1,000 years of their imprisonment has run its full time course in our history and this prophecy speaks of a time when Satan will go out to the whole earth with a covenantal promise to draw the nations to rise up against God, before he will break his covenant and force people to worship him instead. This will then be the Great Tribulation and if God does not shorten its time span then the earth will not survive.

    Much of what we hear talked about on the topic of the End Times are man's flawed understanding of God's Word. There is little understanding. People have not seen the span of the Millennium Age in Rev. 19 and that chapter 20 runs parallel with 19 in time. Many have placed all of chapter 19 at the very beginning of the Millennium Age, but this is not true.

    For @CoreIssue to use an article written by a flawed religious leader and advocate for the pre-trib position as an authority on the subject matter of this thread, is misleading, particularly when he does not provide any evidence as to why we should believe anything that this author has written because of his bias.

    Shalom
     
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  5. Oddawll2

    Oddawll2 Member

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    If I don't misremember, I first heard the terms, end times, tribulation, second coming, etc, in 1968.

    In that year, Americans received daily doses of violence in terms of body counts in Vietnam, riots and arson in American cities, and assassinations such as Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. In Mexico, federales killed college students demonstrating in Mexico City. Russian tanks stopped political reform in Czechoslovakia. Riots and strikes in France stalled the French economy. The chaos of the Cultural Revolution in China had paralyzed the Chinese economy for several years.

    Over lunch in the college cafeteria, my christian friends, worried about (or maybe they welcomed, I'm not exactly sure) the end times, which appeared to have come.

    My communist friends (I don't know if communist is a correct term, they belonged to a club, Students for a Democratic Society) agreed except that in their view the Proletarian Revolution had begun.

    My Muslim friends did not offer an opinion. At the time, I knew nothing of Islam, so I did not know that Muslims have a end-times tradition similar to Christians and Communists, and I didn't know to ask if the predicted caliph might soon arrive.
     
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  6. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    On end times matters, I tend to listen to what the Bible says:
    Matthew 6:34 New International Version (NIV)
    34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

    And, I like this translation best:

    Matthew 6:34 The Passion Translation (TPT)
    34 Refuse to worry about tomorrow, but deal with each challenge that comes your way, one day at a time. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
     
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  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I was not defending the author, but what he said is accurate.

    The fallen angels will be judging the white thrown judgment after the destruction of this heavens and earth which is after the MK which is after the tribulation which starts with the rapture and revealing the AC that.

    Satan will not be chained for over seven years away.
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I agree. But understanding prophecy helps us to deal with today.

    Since Christians won't be here for the tribulation, there's no reason to worry about that.
     
  9. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, if we really do understand it. But, due to the proliferation and variances of the multitudes of "understandings" this Earth is littered with, it is kind of obvious that we should all realize that we (the collective "we") don't. Individually, of course we all KNOW we really do understand.
     
  10. tooldtocare

    tooldtocare Active Member

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    Oh no; not so; my friend, the world's population of Christians is multiplying, not shrinking
     
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  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand a perfectly, when I understand better than the creeds and doctrines out there.
     
  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get that from? That every stat I see says fewer people identify as Christians. Then subtract out the cults, such as Catholicism, and that number really shrinks.
     
  13. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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  14. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Association of Vineyard Churches - Wikipedia

    Read who is growing and who shrinking.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, regarded by many Christians as cults, reported the largest membership increases in a year, according to the National Council of Churches’ 2008 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches.

    Other bodies in the newly published top 25 largest churches list that reported membership increases include The Catholic Church with a 0.87 percent increase; the Southern Baptist Convention with a 0.22 percent increase; the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church with a 0.21 percent rise; and the Assemblies of God with a 0.19 percent growth.

    Read the article and then think about which denominations listed are apostate.

    So was Christianity actually growing? It takes more than a name to be Christian.
     
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  15. tooldtocare

    tooldtocare Active Member

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    When it comes to population growth; I found this interesting--

    Ezekiel

    25 And you, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
    26 Thus says the Lord GOD; Remove the turban, and take off the crown: this shall not remain the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
    27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he comes whose right it is; and I will give it to him.
    31 And I will pour out my indignation upon you, I will blow against you in the fire of my wrath, and deliver you into the hand of brutal men, skilful to destroy.
    32 You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the midst of the land; you shall be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

    According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

    Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
     
  16. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I think the reference is to the Rapture (1 Thess. 4).
     
  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    And your support for this claim is?
     
  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Enter the spelling police.

    Millie was never involved with Millennialism (nor Amillennialism). :cool:
     
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  19. tooldtocare

    tooldtocare Active Member

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    Christian population growth is the population growth of the global Christian community. According to a 2011 Pew Research Center survey, there were 2.19 billion Christians around the world in 2010, more than three times as much from the 600 million recorded in 1910, however this rate of growth is slower than the overall population growth over the same time period.[1] According to a 2015 Pew Research Center study, by 2050, the Christian population is expected to be 3.0 billion.[2]

    Slower growth, but still growing :)-
     
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  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Dig deeper you will find many netlist are cults and apostate. Also look at the list of those in decline.

    Just calling oneself Christian does not make it so. You check out all the facts Christianity is declining and has been years.
     
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