A true Jew

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verzanumi24

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Christians, do you believe that you are a true Jew? The children of Israel, of which the tribe of Judah was one tribe among them, were to be a light to the Gentiles. Are you aware that if you are a Christian that you are a true Jew? What is your understanding on this?
 

MickinEngland

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Are you aware that if you are a Christian that you are a true Jew?
Huh??Jews reject Jesus, but Christians don't.So how can they be the same?
 

Christina

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There are many threads on this site discussing this subject. We are made up of the ten lost tribes. That crossed over the Caucasus Mt. into Scotland, and Britain and eventually America. America and Britain are mainly from the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh a site search on either of these words should lead you to many links here.
 

verzanumi24

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Huh??Jews reject Jesus, but Christians don't.So how can they be the same?
As a whole yes, but so do millions of non Jews. I could show you from the Bible that if you are a Christian, then you are a Jew.
 

verzanumi24

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There are many threads on this site discussing this subject. We are made up of the ten lost tribes. That crossed over the Caucasus Mt. into Scotland, and Britain and eventually America. America and Britain are mainly from the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh a site search on either of these words should lead you to many links here.
I know that, but I am speaking spiritualy.
 

MickinEngland

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....I could show you from the Bible that if you are a Christian, then you are a Jew.
If you mean we're all descended from Adam and Eve you're probably right, but that's where the similarity ends..!Judaism is a set of beliefs that I reject totally, so I ask you again - how can I or any other Christian be a Jew?
 

verzanumi24

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If you mean we're all descended from Adam and Eve you're probably right, but that's where the similarity ends..!Judaism is a set of beliefs that I reject totally, so I ask you again - how can I or any other Christian be a Jew?
No that's not what I mean....Adam was not a Jew.
 

Jordan

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If you mean we're all descended from Adam and Eve you're probably right, but that's where the similarity ends..!Judaism is a set of beliefs that I reject totally, so I ask you again - how can I or any other Christian be a Jew?
Actually the bible stated that Adam and Eve aren't the first people in the flesh in this age. Do you want me to document that for you?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

MickinEngland

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If this discussion is to proceed further, we need to know what the definition of the word 'Jew' is, then take it from there.At the moment I believe a Jew to be someone who adheres to the Jewish faith (Judaism), which holds that Jesus was not the Messiah.Am I right so far?
 

Jordan

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I wouldn't completely rule out Jewish people at all Mick...Since God is God of the Jews and the Gentiles.Romans 3:29 - Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:So, some Jew beliefs in Christ as Saviour....and some don't...For those that don't believe that Christ as Saviour...Revelation 2:9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.Lovest thou as Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

Christina

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yes and no the Jewish faith is based on the old testament they just call it the Torah they are also Gods chosen people always were always will be are we among that Group? yes as explained above. As far as not believing in Christ. God has put a slumber upon them because it is the time of the gentile. The time before Christ was the time of the Jews. Our roots are in Judaism Just as an apple tree can not change to an orange tree. a Christian can not stop being a Jew. However a Jew can choose not to be a Christian. But in the end God will graft the two together in the name of Christ
 

tim_from_pa

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Christians, do you believe that you are a true Jew? The children of Israel, of which the tribe of Judah was one tribe among them, were to be a light to the Gentiles. Are you aware that if you are a Christian that you are a true Jew? What is your understanding on this?
I vote with Kriss on this. I am an Israelite, but not a Jew (of Judah). Judah rejected Messiah, Israel accepted him.However, as I pointed out on other forums (which goes over many people's heads BTW) there are two elections: the election of race and the election of grace.I sense by this question that you are interested in the election of grace. However, the elect of race play an important role in God's plan, for it was thru them that the elect of grace would come to be a light to the Gentiles as you pointed out.Mainline Christianity has this mistaken concept that the Jew is all of God's people and upon rejecting him entrusted the gospel to the Gentiles.No. Rather, as Paul pointed out regarding the mystery of the wild olive tree, that some Gentiles were graphed in because some were loped off---- mostly Jews, but the other tribes of Israel remained in that tree as they would become other nations that accepted the gospel.This, in fact, makes the Gentiles fellow heirs with the children of Abraham and the gospel is still entrusted to Israel as prophesied. Israel is merely lost to their identity and Israel sees themselves as "Gentiles" bringing light to other Gentiles.The story of Joseph in Egypt (where his brothers did not know him) is a type of Israel when they were lost to history and became as Gentiles just as Joseph did.
 

E Nomine

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I'm Dutch so the answer is no.
wink.gif
 

Faithful

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Huh??Jews reject Jesus, but Christians don't.So how can they be the same?
This is not true. The messianic Jews do not reject Jesus Christ.Anyone who does what is right and loves God (yhwh) is acceptable to him.Remember Paul saying if they are circumcised they must obey the whole law.The first believers were all Jews who accepted the most important stone our Messiah. They did not cease to become Jews being circumcised on the 8th day as Christ was and born of Isaac. But today so much has been taught causing hatred against the unbelieving Jews. The Gospel was preached in Jerusalem first which is also the place where the Holy Spirit decended on the apostles adnd became indwelling, this occuring befire the message of the gospel preached. We see that Peter originally thought that the Messiah being promised to the Jews meant salvation only for the Jews. It was Gods intention to bring the Gentiles in and make them all one people.The Jews believed Jerusalem was the only place where the true God could be worshipped. Christ with the samaritan woman in John 4 clearly says, "the hour cometh when ye shall neither here on this mountain or in Jerusalem, worship the Father, You know not what ye worship , we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews.But the hour cometh and now is when 'true worshippers' shall worship the Father in Spirit and Truth for the Father seeketh such to worship him."It was always the outer way of worship and outer signs of circumcision and temple. But Jeremiah 31:31-34 shows us the new way of being made truly alive to God by Gods power within us a circumcised heart with Gods law of love placed within us.Two ways in which God made us his people. Jesus tells us that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life. He did not just love the Jews, but he loved everyone and Christ died for everyone. We should love everyone, Paul say 'the true Jew is the one whos heart is circumcised' he did not intend for people to think they somehow replaced the Jew. But that Yhwh's people were the Jews and were known so. But Paul pointed out that those whos heart was circumcised was the true Jew a person who believed what God had told them about Jesus the Messiah who now lived in the Holy Spirit.Jews built the church look in the books of the bible because it was a place of faith and knowing the living God. Now the temple is you where God resides.A jew is simply Gods people and so are believers in Christ a Jew, Gods people.
 

verzanumi24

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If this discussion is to proceed further, we need to know what the definition of the word 'Jew' is, then take it from there.At the moment I believe a Jew to be someone who adheres to the Jewish faith (Judaism), which holds that Jesus was not the Messiah.Am I right so far?
I am hoping that we can see who is really a Jew in God's eyes, and for that we need to go to the Bible, rather than give our opinion.
 

verzanumi24

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Jesus says that we are Abraham's decendants if we trust Jesus.hitomi
So far you have come the closest to what I am talking about, but you have not hit the nail on the head, because Abraham was not a Jew; he was a Gentile.
 

tim_from_pa

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I'm Dutch so the answer is no.
wink.gif

Jewish, no, but you possibly may be from the tribe of Zebulun or Dan---- one of those I believe.Most attention regarding the tribes of Israel are given to Joseph, because unlike the Jew and the other tribes, he had the birthright. Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh also inherited the birthright. Manasseh was to become "a people" (i.e. a great nation) while those of Eprhaim were to become greater (many nations). The former is the United States the the latter is (was) what was the British Empire, but now as according to prophecy they split into separate independent nations---- the monarchy is more of a figurehead now.
 

tim_from_pa

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To the rest asking who is the true Jew and how Christians relate, I think Paul was trying to elaborate on the spiritual side of the coin regarding the heart's condition and the Law. This goes back to my earlier comment about the election of grace. Of course when one thinks of the Law, they think "Jew" because that was entrusted to them. But the rest of the Israelites were never Jews, so maybe the question ought to be not so much is who is a Jew, but rather the condition of the heart that emulates that which the Jew was supposed to have been.Technically speaking, I would define a Jew as one who is of the tribe of Judah. That's the racial definition. If we are talking "religion" in the Law, then we have to realize that the Jews were not the only people that were given the Law, but in Paul's time the only ones that had custody of it since Israel was divorced and as "Gentiles" no longer had part in the Law. Therefore, if Paul wanted to bring up the point of righteousness, he naturally would have used the Jew when comparing it to the Law.
 

Joyful

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So far you have come the closest to what I am talking about, but you have not hit the nail on the head, because Abraham was not a Jew; he was a Gentile.
Well, v24, when pharisees were furious with Jesus saying they are Abraham's decendants Jesus said they are not decendants of Abraham. It sounds like the same kind of logic to me.hitomi:)