Abraham

[Sabitarian]

Abraham was given a promise from God that his off spring would inherit the land of Cannan as a reward for his belief and faithfulness. Paganized Christianity has brought this up many times as a means to teach another Gospel with other rules that are more pleasing to the; however, God does not see it that way. His promises are always contingent on the actions of the host. There is always a narrow road that has to be followed in order for that promise to be fulfilled. In the case of Abraham we need to see for ourselves why he deserved the promise in the first place.

Gen 26:5
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
KJVOT:4687

mitsvah (mits-vaw'); from OT:6680; a command, whether human or divine (collectively, the Law):

KJV - (which was) commanded (-ment), law, ordinance, precept.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
OT:8451
This is the word Law in the above scripture.

towrah (to-raw'); or torah (to-raw'); from OT:3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:

KJV - law.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
This is the word commandment in the above scripture.
OT:4931
mishmereth (mish-meh'-reth); feminine of OT:4929; watch, i.e. the act (custody) or (concretely) the sentry, the post; (objectively) preservation, or (concretely) safe; (figurative) observance, i.e. (abstractly) duty, or (objectively) a usage or party:

KJV - charge, keep, to be kept, office, ordinance, safeguard, ward, watch.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

OT:2708
chuqqah (khook-kaw'); feminine of OT:2706, and meaning substantially the same:
KJV - appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.
These two are the words charge and statutes. Now, if you believe that Abraham did nothing but spare Isaac, you are mistaken. God the Son, the one who speaks to us, told Isaac exactly why his father was shown so much favor with God and why the promise was given in the first place.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[Angelina]

Galatians 3

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen [G1486] through faith, preached before the gospel
unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth
not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that
hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles [G4186] through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

G1484 ethnos - Heathen
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

I'm sorry Sabi... these scripture wont go away by you ignoring them... :huh:
You are a Torah Keeper? That's fine but please...do not try to tell Christian believers here that they are not saved when they clearly are...

Shalom

 

[brightmorningstar]

Helpful posts, especially Angelina.
The result of Ishmael is not Islam. Muslims are not the decendants of Ishmael. Abraham has been used as a deception, the Abrahmic faiths are Judeism and Christianity, Islam is a corruption of the story. The common claim that three faiths share Abraham is wrong, one cant have faith is Abraham who offered Isaac and the Abraham who offered Ishmael. The entity called Allah is not the same as the entity God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How ironic then that a worldview which denies Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God, Islam, such a spirit that God's word calls ant-Christ, should be seen as the same. People look to Abraham and the various accounts of him, and ignore God. The objection that neither do the Jews as well as Muslims not recognise Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God is becuase they are looking at what the Jews and Muslims say, and not at what Christ says. Jesus told the Jews, Before Abraham was born, I AM.
The depth of some of these deceptions that for want of as better word 'liberal' Christianity holds begs some questions. If liberal christianity isnt looking at Jesus but on what those who dont believe in Jesus Christ say, is liberal christianity actually Christian or is it counterfit?

 

[jiggyfly]

Abraham was given a promise from God that his off spring would inherit the land of Cannan as a reward for his belief and faithfulness. Paganized Christianity has brought this up many times as a means to teach another Gospel with other rules that are more pleasing to the; however, God does not see it that way. His promises are always contingent on the actions of the host. There is always a narrow road that has to be followed in order for that promise to be fulfilled. In the case of Abraham we need to see for ourselves why he deserved the promise in the first place.

Then what’s the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the ceremony of circumcision? Yes, there are great benefits! First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.
True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful? Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him,
“You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case in court.”
Romans 3:1-4 (NLT)

 

[Butch5]

Abraham was given a promise from God that his off spring would inherit the land of Cannan as a reward for his belief and faithfulness. Paganized Christianity has brought this up many times as a means to teach another Gospel with other rules that are more pleasing to the; however, God does not see it that way. His promises are always contingent on the actions of the host. There is always a narrow road that has to be followed in order for that promise to be fulfilled. In the case of Abraham we need to see for ourselves why he deserved the promise in the first place.

Gen 26:5
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
KJVOT:4687

mitsvah (mits-vaw'); from OT:6680; a command, whether human or divine (collectively, the Law):

KJV - (which was) commanded (-ment), law, ordinance, precept.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
OT:8451
This is the word Law in the above scripture.

towrah (to-raw'); or torah (to-raw'); from OT:3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:

KJV - law.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
This is the word commandment in the above scripture.
OT:4931
mishmereth (mish-meh'-reth); feminine of OT:4929; watch, i.e. the act (custody) or (concretely) the sentry, the post; (objectively) preservation, or (concretely) safe; (figurative) observance, i.e. (abstractly) duty, or (objectively) a usage or party:

KJV - charge, keep, to be kept, office, ordinance, safeguard, ward, watch.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

OT:2708
chuqqah (khook-kaw'); feminine of OT:2706, and meaning substantially the same:
KJV - appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.
These two are the words charge and statutes. Now, if you believe that Abraham did nothing but spare Isaac, you are mistaken. God the Son, the one who speaks to us, told Isaac exactly why his father was shown so much favor with God and why the promise was given in the first place.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Yes, Abraham was obedient and was justified for it. It is the same with Christians today. However, the Law that needs to be obeyed has changed. It is no longer the Mosaic Law that you seem to be pushing that must be obeyed, it is the law of Christ that must be obeyed.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

...
You are a Torah Keeper? That's fine but please...do not try to tell Christian believers here that they are not saved when they clearly are...

Shalom

Angelina, what's a Torah Keeper again?

And what Laws do you keep as a New Covenant Christian? Do you keep the 10 Commandment Law? Or do you willfully break it?

Can a person be saved and be doing God's Will if they willfully continue to sin and willfully continue to break the 10 Commandment Moral Law?

God bless.

Yes, Abraham was obedient and was justified for it. It is the same with Christians today. However, the Law that needs to be obeyed has changed. It is no longer the Mosaic Law that you seem to be pushing that must be obeyed, it is the law of Christ that must be obeyed.

Butch, what exactly is the "Mosaic Law" that you refer to?

And what exactly is the "Law of Christ"? And where in Bible can I read about the "Law of Christ"?

And do you keep the 10 Commandment Moral Law or do you willfully break it?

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Helpful posts, especially Angelina.
The result of Ishmael is not Islam. Muslims are not the decendants of Ishmael. Abraham has been used as a deception, the Abrahmic faiths are Judeism and Christianity, Islam is a corruption of the story. The common claim that three faiths share Abraham is wrong, one cant have faith is Abraham who offered Isaac and the Abraham who offered Ishmael. The entity called Allah is not the same as the entity God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How ironic then that a worldview which denies Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God, Islam, such a spirit that God's word calls ant-Christ, should be seen as the same. People look to Abraham and the various accounts of him, and ignore God. The objection that neither do the Jews as well as Muslims not recognise Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God is becuase they are looking at what the Jews and Muslims say, and not at what Christ says. Jesus told the Jews, Before Abraham was born, I AM.
The depth of some of these deceptions that for want of as better word 'liberal' Christianity holds begs some questions. If liberal christianity isnt looking at Jesus but on what those who dont believe in Jesus Christ say, is liberal christianity actually Christian or is it counterfit?

True, Islam is a corruption from an amalgamation of religous beliefs (some from paganism) which Mohammed put together under the title of Islam in the 6th century A.D.

But Judaism is a corruption also.

And Christianity certainly did NOT... originate from Judaism!

Judaism today is still basically Phariseeism, the "Jews' religion" Apostle Paul called it. And it still is very, very anti-Christian! Where did the Pharisee and Sadduccee beliefs come from? They originated after the Jews' 70 years Babylon captivity, which is when the Jewish philosophical writings called the Babylonian Talmud were put together. The Talmud is NOT... the Torah. The Torah is about the first five Books of Moses, also called the Pentatuch.

The Promise by Faith first given through Abraham was 430 years PRIOR... to the Torah law being given to Israel. That's why Christianity has NOTHING in common with Judaism, because Judaism is a separate religious tradition that started in Babylon, and was not from Moses' teaching. Judaism only 'borrowed' from the law of Moses, and mixed their tradition with it, which is why Jesus warned about the "leaven" of the Pharisees and Sadduccees, and of Herod (of Esau).

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

True, Islam is a corruption from an amalgamation of religous beliefs (some from paganism) which Mohammed put together under the title of Islam in the 6th century A.D.

But Judaism is a corruption also...

But realise veteran before you condemn them all, that there will be some Muslims and Jews in heaven.

Also, some sects of Christianity have a religious tradition that started in Babylon, e.g Sun Day Holiness.

God bless.

 

[jiggyfly]

A an interesting book related to the topic is The Transcendental Seed Of Abraham by Charles Elliot Newbold Jr.

 

[veteran]

But realise veteran before you condemn them all, that there will be some Muslims and Jews in heaven.

Also, some sects of Christianity have a religious tradition that started in Babylon, e.g Sun Day Holiness.

God bless.

Just stating the facts. Judaism is a 'religion' of men, and it is not... going to get anyone saved.

There is only ONE WAY of Salvation, and that is through the Blood of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Just stating the facts. Judaism is a 'religion' of men, and it is not... going to get anyone saved.

There is only ONE WAY of Salvation, and that is through the Blood of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ.

AMEN!!!

And just to clarify what I meant earlier, in case someone is going to accuse me of being Satan again... I agree with what veteran said, ONLY through Jesus can anyone be saved.

However, many people in history have died without even hearing about Jesus or having a Bible, and many Muslims were born forbidden to talk about or hear about Jesus + Bible. In those cases, I believe God looks at their hearts and makes a judgement on their salvation, because God knows they never had an opportunity to hear about Jesus or Bible.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

AMEN!!!

And just to clarify what I meant earlier, in case someone is going to accuse me of being Satan again... I agree with what veteran said, ONLY through Jesus can anyone be saved.

However, many people in history have died without even hearing about Jesus or having a Bible, and many Muslims were born forbidden to talk about or hear about Jesus + Bible. In those cases, I believe God looks at their hearts and makes a judgement on their salvation, because God knows they never had an opportunity to hear about Jesus or Bible.

God bless.

Jesus has a plan for all that have not yet heard or understood The Gospel. It's called the Millennium.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Jesus has a plan for all that have not yet heard or understood The Gospel. It's called the Millennium.

Just so I am clear...are you saying all the dead in history who never heard about Jesus or Bible will be resurrected for 1000 years to make a decision to accept Jesus or Not? Bible support?

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Ezekiel 44; Isaiah 29:22-24; Rev.3:9; Rev.22:14-15.

At Christ's second coming, all those not of the "resurrection of life" that reign with Him, will be of the "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29).

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Ezekiel 44; Isaiah 29:22-24; Rev.3:9; Rev.22:14-15.

At Christ's second coming, all those not of the "resurrection of life" that reign with Him, will be of the "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29).

veteran, please allow me to share my beliefs about before, during and after the 1000 years:

THE EVENTS OCCURRING AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 1,000 YEARS:

Devastating earthquake and hailstorm (Revelation 16:18-21; Revelation 6:14-17).
Second coming of Jesus for His saints (Matthew 24:30, 31).
Righteous dead raised to life (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
Righteous living "translated" and given immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-55).
Righteous given bodies like Jesus (1 John 3:2; Philippians 3:21).
All righteous caught up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
Living lost slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth (Isaiah 11:4).
Lost in graves remain dead until the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5).
Jesus takes righteous to heaven (John 13:33, 36; 14:1-3).
Satan bound (Revelation 20:1-3).

THE EVENTS AND CONDITIONS DURING THE 1,000 YEARS:

Earth in battered condition from huge hailstones and devastating earthquake. Earth torn up, desolate, and dark. (Revelation 16:18-21; 6:14-17).
Earth in total blackout/bottomless pit. All wicked are dead on earth. (Jeremiah 4:23, 28).
Satan forced to stay on the earth/bound. (Revelation 20:1-3).
Righteous in heaven participating in the judgment (Revelation 20:4).
Wicked are all dead (Jeremiah 4:25; Isaiah 11:4).

THE EVENTS AT THE CLOSE OF THE 1,000 YEARS:

Third coming of Jesus with His saints (Zechariah 14:5).
Holy city settles on mount of Olives, which becomes a great plain (Zechariah 14:4, 10).
The Father, angels, and all of the righteous come with Jesus (Revelation 21:1-3; Matthew 25:31; Zechariah 14:5).
Wicked dead raised; Satan loosed (Revelation 20:5, 7).
Satan deceives entire world (Revelation 20:8).
Wicked surround the holy city (Revelation 20:9).
Wicked destroyed by fire (Revelation 20:9).
New heavens and earth created (Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1).
God's people enjoy eternity with Christ on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

So to cap off, The new Jerusalem will settle where the mount of Olives now stands. The mountain will be flattened to make a great plain, upon which the city will come to rest. All of the righteous people of all ages (Zechariah 14:5), the angels of heaven (Matthew 25:31), plus God the Father (Revelation 21:2, 3) and God the Son (Matthew 25:31) will return to earth with the holy city for Jesus' special third coming. The second coming will be for His saints; the third will be with His saints.

At the close of the 1,000 years (when Jesus comes the third time) the wicked will be raised. Satan, loosed from his bonds, will then have an earth full of people (all the nations of the world) to deceive once more. They will attack the Holy City to try to take it by force, but Jesus will case fire down from the sky and it will look like a lake of fire and then fire will destroy the lost and Satan. Then Jesus will create a new Earth, the eternal home for the redeemed.

God bless.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

veteran, please allow me to share my beliefs about before, during and after the 1000 years:

Why do you continually try to hijack threads? What you seek to discuss has nothing to do with the OP.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Why do you continually try to hijack threads? What you seek to discuss has nothing to do with the OP.

Sorry my bad. I sincerely apologize, please forgive me everyone. I was just going with the flow, and didn't realise I was hijacking. I will try not to allow that to happen again. Once again, sorry.

God bless.

 

[brightmorningstar]

But Judaism is a corruption also.

And Christianity certainly did NOT... originate from Judaism!

Not sure quite what you mean. How could Jesus say He didnt abolish any of the law and prophets but fulfilled them when they are what Judeism holds to? How can what Jesus didnt change, but fulfilled not be the origin? How when Christ’s NT teaching says the OT scriptures reveal Him can Judaism not be the origin.
Jesus Christ is actually the Jews messiah too, it is just that they mostly don’t recognise Him yet. Jesus said salvation comes from the Jews.
According to Jesus Christ’s NT witness therefore you are 100% wrong to say Christianity has nothing in common with Judaism... the covenant in Christ stems from the covenant with the Jews. Sure the Judaism covenant of legalism is a spiritual enemy of the covenant of the freedom in Christ and the law on our hearts, but read Romans 9-11

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Not sure quite what you mean. How could Jesus say He didnt abolish any of the law and prophets but fulfilled them when they are what Judeism holds to?..

I can explain this...salvation demands a perfect and sinless and righteous life, so Jesus had to keep and fulfill keeping the Law on our behalf and then credits and imputes His life to us as a free gift of grace. Jesus also said he came to fulfill all righteousness at His water baptism when He was water baptism, and what He meant was that He had to live the life and do all the things in His life to save us, to fulfil all the demands and requirements for salvation, 2 Cor 5:21, Romans 5:10 etc.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Not sure quite what you mean. How could Jesus say He didnt abolish any of the law and prophets but fulfilled them when they are what Judeism holds to? How can what Jesus didnt change, but fulfilled not be the origin? How when Christ’s NT teaching says the OT scriptures reveal Him can Judaism not be the origin.
Jesus Christ is actually the Jews messiah too, it is just that they mostly don’t recognise Him yet. Jesus said salvation comes from the Jews.
According to Jesus Christ’s NT witness therefore you are 100% wrong to say Christianity has nothing in common with Judaism... the covenant in Christ stems from the covenant with the Jews. Sure the Judaism covenant of legalism is a spiritual enemy of the covenant of the freedom in Christ and the law on our hearts, but read Romans 9-11

Why did our Lord Jesus say to certain ones of the scribes and Pharisees in Mark 7, that their tradition made The Word of God of none effect? Do you think Jesus would follow their traditions while saying that about them? Of course not.

Mark 7:13
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
(KJV)


What was the difference then with Israel following the Old Covenant and law given through Moses, vs. those later traditions of the scribes and Pharisees which He rebuked?

Just that, the 'traditions' of the scribes and Pharisees is where Judaism came from, separate from the Old Covenant and law through Moses. Prior to the split of old Israel, the religion of Judaism DID NOT EXIST. It was a later fabrication of certain religious sects of the Jews AFTER... Judah's return from the 70 years Babylon captivity.

Thusly:
1. Law and the prophets = from Moses
2. Judaism = later traditions ADDED by the scribes and Pharisees (after Judah's return to Jerusalem from Babylon)

What Christ Jesus fulfilled on His cross:
1. Law and the prophets (specific parts involving prophecy about His first coming, and the handwriting of ordinances in the law)