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Featured According as I also am of Christ

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by HARK!, May 19, 2020.

  1. Hypocrite

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  2. Paul immitated Messiah in obedience,

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  3. Scofflaw

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  4. Forgery

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  1. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    (CLV) 1Co 11:1
    Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

    So was Paul a hypocrite; was he obedient to the law; was messiah a scofflaw; or is this verse a forgery?

    Is there any other possibility?

    So not only are we called to follow Messiah's example; at the very least Paul calls us to follow his example of following Messiah's example; unless something is fake here.
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Romans 7:6 and 2 Corinthians 3:6 tell us that it is no longer the letter of the law that we are bound by; but rather now that we are in Christ, we are obedient to the spirit of the law (see also Hebrews 7:12).

    Christ Himself did indeed violate the sabbath on not a few occasions (read Exodus 20:10) by doing actual work of healing on it. On one occasion he told a lame man to pick up his bed and walk on the sabbath; so He commanded someone to violate the sabbath by carrying his bed on it. Jesus said in response to the condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Pharisees sought all the more to kill him; because He not only broke the sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    Therefore, it is not the letter of the law that anymore defines sin for us (because Jesus was without sin; and yet He broke the letter of the sabbath law in Exodus 20:10); but as believers we are not under the law, are dead to the law, and are delivered from the law, so that we cannot sin (because sin is the transgression of the law; and where no law is, there is no transgression). And in the pracitcal sense, our walk is now defined by walking according to the Spirit and in bearing the fruit of the Spirit; which fulfills the righteousness of the law (Romans 8:4; Romans 5:5 w/ Romans 13:8-10; Galatians 5:22-23).
     
  3. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    That's not true. If it was true; then he was not without sin. If he was not without sin; then he was not who he said he was. If he was not who he said he was; then the whole NT is false doctrine.

    I vehemently reject your assertion. I find it to be offensive.
     
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  4. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    These are also matters of the law: "justice, mercy and faithfulness." Each of the cases where Jesus could be accused of violating the sabbath or any other law he was showing mercy, or flouting man made traditions.

    How does mercy fit into the Torah within a legalistic understanding?
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec; and therefore His character was not after a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

    He did indeed violate the letter of sabbath day laws by working on the sabbath day. In Exodus 20:10 it says that on the sabbath you shall not do *any* work; but Jesus told a man to take up his bed and walk on the sabbath day, and then said, My Father worketh hitherto; and I work.

    The very next verse (John 5:18) says that Jesus not only had violated the sabbath but had said that God was His own Father, making Himself equal with God: and that therefore the Pharisees sought the more to kill Him. This was not the Pharisees' estimation of Jesus' statement, this was the estimation of the apostle John who penned this scripture by inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

    I suppose that you now want to stone me as the Alexandirans did to Stephen; fortunately for me, I am sitting behind a computer and am out of range of any physical weapons that you might level against me. They would not prosper anyway (Isaiah 54:17).

    Jesus was in fact, without sin, even though He violated the letter of the sabbath day law; because with a new priesthood coming in there is a change also of the law (Hebrews 7:12); which change is defined by Romans 7:6 and 2 Corinthians 3:6. We are no longer bound to the letter in Christ but are obedient to the spirit of what is written.
     
  6. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    How do you define a legalistic understanding?

    I see numerous examples of mercy within the TaNaK.

    Moses plead for mercy for the rebels. It was granted. YHWH's mercy abounds.The whole sacrificial system was a system of mercy. David, a man of YHWH's heart, was merciful to Saul. There are numerous other examples. It's YHWH's will that all be saved.
     
  7. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    No he wasn't.

    (CLV) Hb 8:4
    Indeed, then, if He were on earth He would not even be a priest, there being those who offer approach presents according to the law
     
  8. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    From a legalistic point of view Joseph should have reported Mary for getting pregnant and turned her over to be stoned. But he did not, but considered putting her away quietly because he was a just man.

    1 Kings 20:39-42 shows an example of someone who disobeyed the Lord by showing his enemy mercy, but had he also been inclined to show mercy in the prophet's test I doubt his life would have been forfeit.

    It seems the spirit of the Law gets lost in the letter. The legalistic view is for those with hardened hearts incapable of seeing past the letter.
     
  9. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    Does not the husband have the authority to forgive his wife of adultery under the law? It is written that he had planned to put her away quietly. This is not a divorce. It's a time out. He obviously loved her deeply; and was contemplating making it work, and saving her reputation.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    He was.

    Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
    Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
    Heb 7:17, For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    Heb 7:18, For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
    Heb 7:19, For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
    Heb 7:20, And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
    Heb 7:21, (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec: )
    Heb 7:22, By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

    Heb 7:26, For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    He is not on earth.
     
  11. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    All written after he ascended.

    Exactly. He wasn't a priest when he was on earth, according to scripture.
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Nevertheless He was (and is ) in fact the Son of God; and so had the power of an endless life; which is the point of what I was saying.

    Nitpicking out the details is not going to change the message of what I have said to you.

    Also, Jesus is coming back to earth to rule and reign from Jerusalem.

    Are you saying that in that time He will no longer be Priest?
     
  13. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    I gave you the scripture regarding what is past.. You came up with that conjecture for the future on your own.
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Not going to answer, huh?

    Because the answer is that He will continue to be Priest when on earth during the millennial kingdom. Because the Father has declared Him to be a priest for ever according to the order of Melchizedec.

    Therefore, if He will be priest on earth during the millennial kingdom it is also possible that He was priest on earth (just not according to the order of Aaron) the first time He walked the earth.

    Not that it even matters to my point.
     
  15. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    That's not with this thread is about. Would you have the courtesy to at least wait until we're a couple of pages in; before you attempt to derail my threads?

    Doing this on page 1 is in very poor form. Speaking of answers, did you vote in the poll?
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    We have been going down a line of reasoning and therefore my post is on-topic.
     
  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    My position is not found in any of the choices you have provided. I believe I detailed my answer in post #2 and the ensuing posts.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    I asked if there was another possibility in the OP. Unfortunately post number 2 doesn't make for a very practical poll answer. If you can get it down to a few words; I'll add your answer to the poll.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec; and therefore He is subject to the spirit of the law rather than the letter.

    That is as short as I can make it.
     
  20. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    Surely you aren't suggesting that Messiah didn't follow the Torah down to the letter?


    (CLV) Mt 5:18
    For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.


    (CLV) Lk 16:17
    Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.
     
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