All eschatological views are correct?

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stunnedbygrace

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I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?
 

Keraz

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So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?
Because that is what the Bible Prophets say: Matthew 24:29-31
As soon as the time of distress has passed - the 42 month Great Tribulation.
The Son of Man will appear in power and glory - Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.
He will send out His angels to gather His chosen, faithful people from every part of the earth.

These three verses destroy any fanciful notions of being 'raptured to heaven', or avoidance of what is prophesied to happen during the forthcoming end times.
However; Revelation 12:14 does give the hope for some to be kept safe during the GT.
 

bbyrd009

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I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?
Ha! Good q imo

imo all eschatology is crap, fortune-telling about tomorrow, which i am convinced was deliberately encouraged to out hypocrites
 

David H.

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I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?

There is only One day of Christ, he only comes once.

For a time I held to something similar in that i saw the different rapture passages in revelation as three different raptures. Revelation 7, Revelation 10, 11, and the rapture of the two witnesses as the "gleanings" if you will, But then I came to understand that Christ comes once on the day of Christ, and my problem was in my understanding of Revelation as linear prophecy instead of an overlapping series of visions.

I do agree there is truth in all the views and error in them all, and commend you for trying to bring them together like this... We all know in part...As I have said before I hope the pretribbers are right and we do not face the mark of the beast and the Great tribulation, But I am preparing for this not to be the case, and that preparation involves trusting in the Providence of God to do HIS will in our lives whatever that will may entail for us, if death by beheading then so be it, for I know, not a hair of my head will persish (Luke 21:18) Which means I will have a full head of hair when I am resurrected Hallelujah!:D

God bless
 

stunnedbygrace

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At Jesus’ first coming, prophecy seemed to suggest He would come from three different places - Nazareth, Bethlehem and Egypt. They had arguments about which of those He would come from. It is certain they did. It played out that He actually did come from all three at different times, just as God had spoken to the prophets.

Prophecy, once again, seems to say He will come from 3 places in 3 ways at 3 different times.
1. Suddenly, when least expected and people are saying peace, marrying and partying.
2. From Bozrah with robes stained red.
3. After His sign is seen in the sky, on the clouds, when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.
 
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ScottA

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I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?
Because the harvest, although it takes place in the world for those taken, it is not of the world, but is of the kingdom wherein there is no division of time--no time.
 
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David H.

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So you say. :D

Let the Holy Spirit teach you, he will show you the truth. What i say is just another hill of beans if the Holy Spirit is not behind it.

At Jesus’ first coming, prophecy seemed to suggest He would come from three different places - Nazareth, Bethlehem and Egypt. They had arguments about which of those He would come from. It is certain they did. It played out that He actually did come from all three at different times, just as God had spoken to the prophets.

Prophecy, once again, seems to say He will come from 3 places in 3 ways at 3 different times.
1. Suddenly, when least expected and people are saying peace, marrying and partying.
2. From Bozrah with robes stained red.
3. After His sign is seen in the sky, on the clouds, when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.

True, but he only came once at his first advent fulfilling all three prophecies:cool:.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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As I have said before I hope the pretribbers are right and we do not face the mark of the beast and the Great tribulation, But I am preparing for this not to be the case

I think it is good to prepare for that because I don’t think all of us will be taken then. I think some will need further testing to come out pure. Probably most, given our current state. As the verse you posted a minute ago in another thread, even Paul said: if I may in any way attain to the resurrection of the dead. I think it’s that first resurrection he was hoping to attain to.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Let the Holy Spirit teach you, he will show you the truth. What i say is just another hill of beans if the Holy Spirit is not behind it.



True, but he only came once at his first advent fulfilling all three prophecies:cool:.
Mmm…He still came to one place, then went to another later, then was called from another place even later. In “time” He came from three different places at three different timeframes/days.
 

Davy

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There is only One day of Christ, he only comes once.

... But then I came to understand that Christ comes once on the day of Christ, and my problem was in my understanding of Revelation as linear prophecy instead of an overlapping series of visions.

Really love your Bob Ross analogy of how the Book of Revelation is put together. That was a treat.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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At Jesus’ first coming, prophecy seemed to suggest He would come from three different places - Nazareth, Bethlehem and Egypt. They had arguments about which of those He would come from. It is certain they did. It played out that He actually did come from all three at different times, just as God had spoken to the prophets.

Prophecy, once again, seems to say He will come from 3 places in 3 ways at 3 different times.
1. Suddenly, when least expected and people are saying peace, marrying and partying.
2. From Bozrah with robes stained red.
3. After His sign is seen in the sky, on the clouds, when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.

So…about these three…
#1 could not be after the tribulation because, seriously, who would be eating, drinking, partying and planning weddings after that hideous time of Gods wrath and the things it says will be happening?? At the very least, #1 would have to be prewrath. But then…how would it be when least expected? It seems to fit pretrib best.

#2 seems to obviously be after the wrath of the Lamb/God. It’s Isaiah I think?

#3 has to be after the second resurrection because “those who pierced Him” see Him.
 

GISMYS_7

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Because that is what the Bible Prophets say: Matthew 24:29-31
As soon as the time of distress has passed - the 42 month Great Tribulation.
The Son of Man will appear in power and glory - Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.
He will send out His angels to gather His chosen, faithful people from every part of the earth.

These three verses destroy any fanciful notions of being 'raptured to heaven', or avoidance of what is prophesied to happen during the forthcoming end times.
However; Revelation 12:14 does give the hope for some to be kept safe during the GT.

Who thinks God would pour out His wrath on His Bride the Church?? Think!
 

Davy

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Who thinks God would pour out His wrath on His Bride the Church?? Think!

If you had actually studied the Book of Isaiah where Apostle Paul was pulling from about the "wrath" he mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, then you would actually know what you're talking about. But since you show you heed the traditions of men that push the false pre-trib rapture lie, it shows you really are not that sincere about God's Holy Writ.
 

GISMYS_7

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If you had actually studied the Book of Isaiah where Apostle Paul was pulling from about the "wrath" he mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, then you would actually know what you're talking about. But since you show you heed the traditions of men that push the false pre-trib rapture lie, it shows you really are not that sincere about God's Holy Writ.


Bill Salus: The Revelation Resurrections and the Lake of Fire
W
hy be left behind??
 
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Davy

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I'm not going to leave you hanging brethren that want know what "wrath" Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5. I don't care if those don't read this who love men's word instead of God's Word.


1 Thess 5:1-9
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Isaiah is one of the major Old Testament Books that mentions the events to happen on that future "day of the Lord". That is about the last day of this world when Lord Jesus returns and ends this present world. Apostle Paul also revealed this in 2 Peter 3:10 about that day.


That "times and the seasons" Paul mentions to them is about the Signs of the end of this world, like that "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes. Those Paul spoke to there already knew those "times and the seasons", so like he said, he had no need to show them. They knew them.


But how strange it is that those on man's fake pre-trib rapture do not... know those "times and the seasons"? And we are in the 21st century and they don't know them! Why? Simply because those deceived brethren are too busy playing church, socializing and partying instead of disciplining theirselves in God's Word with His help. I'm not trying to be mean by saying that, it's simply the truth, even though those lazy brethren are embarrassing to those who have done their homework in God's Word.

Want proof of this? Notice how those on the pre-trib rapture lie go straight... to Paul's 9th verse below about "wrath", and then assign 'their own' timing to it! They do that because that is how the false pre-trib rapture preachers work, they pull out a verse here and verse there, and apply a different meaning to it than what the chapter flow does.


3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Paul is still linking these events to the "times and the seasons" about the end of this world, and that above is absolutely from the Old Testament prophets like the Book of Isaiah. The "day of the Lord" last day event is to come 'at an instant, suddenly', per the Book of Isaiah. (Go check it out and find that in Isaiah, I'm not going to do your homework for you.)


Notice that "sudden destruction" idea by Paul there? He got that from the Book of Isaiah about God's destruction upon the wicked on the last day of this present world. Not only that, but Paul is even giving more... info about that future event. Paul tells us when they, meaning the deceived and wicked, say, "Peace and safety", that is when God will bring that "sudden destruction" upon... whom? Upon THEM!


The very end of this world, the "great tribulation" time, is to be a time when all wars and rumors of wars have stopped, and the coming pseudo-Christ will destroy many using the idea of world peace (Daniel 8). That is why 'they' (the deceived and wicked) will be saying that, "Peace and safety".

And THAT... is the "wrath" Apostle Paul was pointing to in this chapter, NOT Satan's wrath for during the "great tribulation", but GOD's WRATH upon them, the deceived and wicked.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Therefore, Paul admonishes us to remain spiritually awake and sober, meaning don't be deceived about the times and the seasons. Learn them, so as to NOT be deceived!


7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Who are "they" again? It's those in the above that will be deceived, saying that "Peace and safety". They will think the coming Antichrist is truly God, and come to fix all the world's problems.


8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV


If you remain spiritually awake and sober, understanding the times and the seasons Paul pointed to, then you won't be deceived like those saying, "Peace and safety", and thus GOD's WRATH will not be upon you on that final "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes. It's that simple.
 

GISMYS_7

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The rapture is not the same as the return of Jesus.
The catching up IS the rapture.
1 Thess. 4:6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain """shall be caught up""" together with them in the clouds, to """meet the Lord in the air""": and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 
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ScottA

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So…about these three…
#1 could not be after the tribulation because, seriously, who would be eating, drinking, partying and planning weddings after that hideous time of Gods wrath and the things it says will be happening?? At the very least, #1 would have to be prewrath. But then…how would it be when least expected? It seems to fit pretrib best.

#2 seems to obviously be after the wrath of the Lamb/God. It’s Isaiah I think?

#3 has to be after the second resurrection because “those who pierced Him” see Him.
All three are as square pegs in round holes.
Prophecy, once again, seems to say He will come from 3 places in 3 ways at 3 different times.
1. Suddenly, when least expected and people are saying peace, marrying and partying.
2. From Bozrah with robes stained red.
3. After His sign is seen in the sky, on the clouds, when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.
First these must all be rightly divided as to what is in the world, and what is in the kingdom (heaven).
  1. This, as Jesus said, describes things being "as the days of Noah": while most are unaware. But you have dismissed this one because most put too much thought into "great tribulation." This is unbelief. There is only one tribulation that is greater than all others: The crucifixion of Christ--he took it all upon himself--there is nothing more. As for us experiencing tribulations great and small--such is life in the world. For us who are His, "to live is Christ" in who's sufferings we have our share. In other words, there is no great tribulation event yet to come, thus, people will possibly be caught unaware, eating and drinking, and marrying, etc..
  2. This is a foreshadowing of the coming of Christ upon whom all tribulations result in His blood.
  3. This is Jesus coming to gather the elect--which happens "not by observation", but in spirit, meaning not in the world, but in the presence of God, in heavenly places--in the judgement.
 

Keraz

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Prophecy, once again, seems to say He will come from 3 places in 3 ways at 3 different times.
1. Suddenly, when least expected and people are saying peace, marrying and partying.
2. From Bozrah with robes stained red.
3. After His sign is seen in the sky, on the clouds, when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.
They describe two different events.
Your points 1 & 2, happen at the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. When He won't be seen; Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4

3/ Is the Return of Jesus, at least 10 years after the SS event. The time needed for all of Revelation 7 to 19:10, to take place as Prophesied.