All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him Bodily !

[ChristisGod]

I did a study on this passage yesterday and I wanted to share it with the group.

Colossians 2:9
King James Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.


8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

Body
sōmatikṓs (an adverb, derived from 4984 /sōmatikós which is an adjective derived from 4983 /sṓma, "body") – bodily(used only in Col 2:9)Loew & Nida Greek Lexicon

Never once in the NT is soma ever used of something nonphysical or immaterial .

Paul is talking in Col chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Bodily (σωματικῶς) In bodily fashion or bodily-wise. The verse contains two distinct assertions: 1. That the fullness of the Godhead eternally dwells in Christ. The present tense κατοικεῖ dwelleth, is used like ἐστιν is (the image), Colossians 1:15, to denote an eternal and essential characteristic of Christ's being. The indwelling of the divine fullness in Him is characteristic of Him as Christ, from all ages and to all ages. Hence the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Him before His incarnation, when He was "in the form of God" (Philippians 2:6). The Word in the beginning, was with God and was God (John 1:1). It dwelt in Him during His incarnation. It was the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth, and His glory which was beheld was the glory as of the Only begotten of the Father (John 1:14; compare 1 John 1:1-3). The fullness of the Godhead dwells in His glorified humanity in heaven.

2. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him in a bodily way, clothed the body. This means that it dwells in Him as one having a human body. This could not be true of His preincarnate state, when He was "in the form of God," for the human body was taken on by Him in the fullness of time, when "He became in the likeness of men" (Philippians 2:7), when the Word became flesh. The fullness of the Godhead dwelt in His person from His birth to His ascension. He carried His human body with Him into heaven, and in His glorified body now and ever dwells the fullness of the Godhead. Vincent Greek Word Studies


(2:9) Commenting on the contents of this verse, Lightfoot says; “The apostle justifies the foregoing charge that the doctrine was not according to Christ: ‘In Christ dwells the whole plērōma (πληρωμα) (fulness, plenitude), the entire fulness of the Godhead, whereas they represent it to you as dispersed among several spiritual agencies. Christ is the fountain-head of all spiritual life, whereas they teach you to seek it in communion with inferior creatures.’ ”


“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

I wonder why so many so-called christians do not think Jesus is still human, a man with a real flesh and bone body now in heaven ?

 

[APAK]

I did a study on this passage yesterday and I wanted to share it with the group.

Colossians 2:9
King James Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.


8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

Body
sōmatikṓs (an adverb, derived from 4984 /sōmatikós which is an adjective derived from 4983 /sṓma, "body") – bodily(used only in Col 2:9)Loew & Nida Greek Lexicon

Never once in the NT is soma ever used of something nonphysical or immaterial .

Paul is talking in Col chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Bodily (σωματικῶς) In bodily fashion or bodily-wise. The verse contains two distinct assertions: 1. That the fullness of the Godhead eternally dwells in Christ. The present tense κατοικεῖ dwelleth, is used like ἐστιν is (the image), Colossians 1:15, to denote an eternal and essential characteristic of Christ's being. The indwelling of the divine fullness in Him is characteristic of Him as Christ, from all ages and to all ages. Hence the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Him before His incarnation, when He was "in the form of God" (Philippians 2:6). The Word in the beginning, was with God and was God (John 1:1). It dwelt in Him during His incarnation. It was the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth, and His glory which was beheld was the glory as of the Only begotten of the Father (John 1:14; compare 1 John 1:1-3). The fullness of the Godhead dwells in His glorified humanity in heaven.

2. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him in a bodily way, clothed the body. This means that it dwells in Him as one having a human body. This could not be true of His preincarnate state, when He was "in the form of God," for the human body was taken on by Him in the fullness of time, when "He became in the likeness of men" (Philippians 2:7), when the Word became flesh. The fullness of the Godhead dwelt in His person from His birth to His ascension. He carried His human body with Him into heaven, and in His glorified body now and ever dwells the fullness of the Godhead. Vincent Greek Word Studies


(2:9) Commenting on the contents of this verse, Lightfoot says; “The apostle justifies the foregoing charge that the doctrine was not according to Christ: ‘In Christ dwells the whole plērōma (πληρωμα) (fulness, plenitude), the entire fulness of the Godhead, whereas they represent it to you as dispersed among several spiritual agencies. Christ is the fountain-head of all spiritual life, whereas they teach you to seek it in communion with inferior creatures.’ ”


“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

hope this helps !!!

You are attempting to understand Col 2:9 I see. It might be better to review verses 6-12 first and therefore understand the context of what the author was saying here. The author was writing to Laodicea and he was concerned they did not understand how faith and living in Christ was so essential for their growth. By reviewing verse 9 along with verse 10 together, makes its much easier to understand verse 9, IMO.

Let scripture interpret itself 'naturally, like unzipping a banana by splitting open the top fibrous portion first and then down its length.

Just saying?

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Enoch111]

I wonder why so many so-called christians do not think Jesus is still human, a man with a real flesh and bone body now in heaven ?

Many Christians have been influenced by Gnosticism. All the ancient heresies regarding the person of Christ arose within Gnosticism. And a proper understanding of the person of Christ is a part of the doctrine of Christ.

2 JOHN: THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST IS CRITICAL
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The Lord Jesus Christ ascended back to Heaven in His resurrected body of flesh and bones. He is now glorified and exalted, and His glorious body is described in the book of Revelation:

REVELATION 1: CHRIST AS HE NOW APPEARS
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[ChristisGod]

You are attempting to understand Col 2:9 I see. It might be better to review verses 6-12 first and therefore understand the context of what the author was saying here. The author was writing to Laodicea and he was concerned they did not understand how faith and living in Christ was so essential for their growth. By reviewing verse 9 along with verse 10 together, makes its much easier to understand verse 9, IMO.

Let scripture interpret itself 'naturally, like unzipping a banana by splitting open the top fibrous portion first and then down its length.

Just saying?

Bless you,

APAK

So what do you disagree with in the OP regarding Colossians 2:9 ?

 

[APAK]

So what do you disagree with in the OP regarding Colossians 2:9 ?

I guess you do not want to consider what I just said by your snap response. It might make your study go smoother. What do you have to lose. I assure you it is not wasted time. This type of process IMO should be used for any scripture under study.

 

[ChristisGod]

I guess you do not want to consider what I just said by your snap response. It might make your study go smoother. What do you have to lose. I assure you it is not wasted time. This type of process IMO should be used for any scripture under study.

I've studied the book several times and taught it in small groups. Can you make your point and how it conflicts with Colossians 2:9 ?

Remember no chapters and verses in the original Greek.

Colossians 1:15-20
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Colossians 2:2-3
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Do you know why Colossians was written ?

 

[ChristisGod]

The church at Colossae was under attack from false teachers who were denigrating the deity of Jesus; they were teaching that He was not actually God. Though Paul had never been to the church itself, he addressed these issues head-on. The nature of Jesus Christ as Creator and Redeemer was nonnegotiable, so Paul wrote to them that he might bring his wisdom to bear on this difficult and trying situation. It was critical to him that this church know God in His greatness and glory, rather than in the deficient view given them by the false teachers (Colossians 1:25; 2:1–2).Book of Colossians Overview - Insight for Living Ministries

In this book, the apostle Paul described Jesus with some of the loftiest language in all the New Testament, focusing on Christ’s preeminence and sufficiency in all things. Paul presented Christ as the center of the universe, not only as the active Creator but also as the recipient of creation—in His taking on of human flesh. Christ was and is the visible image of the invisible God, containing within Himself the fullness of Deity (Colossians 2:9). Because of His divine nature, Jesus is sovereign, above all things with an authority given Him by the Father. As such, Jesus is also Head over the church. He has reconciled all things to Himself through His death on the cross, making believers alive to God and setting them on the path to right living. This proper view of Christ served as the antidote for the Colossian heresy as well as a building block for Christian life and doctrine both then and now.

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

I've studied the book several times and taught it in small groups. Can you make your point and how it conflicts with Colossians 2:9 ?

Remember no chapters and verses in the original Greek.

Colossians 1:15-20
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Colossians 2:2-3
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Do you know why Colossians was written ?

I see you are proud of your work and have your mind set, on at least this topic, so don't let me upset or rattle you anymore. I was just added in a suggestion. No hidden agenda.

Notice you have nobody except me, to respond directly to your OP. I wonder why?

Anyway, moving in on

 

[ChristisGod]

I see you are proud of your work and have your mind set, on at least this topic, so don't let me upset or rattle you anymore. I was just added in a suggestion. No hidden agenda.

Notice you have nobody except me, to respond directly to your OP. I wonder why?

Anyway, moving in on

Is there anything you object to that I have said that is not what you consider to be true ?

Have I misrepresented Scripture?
Jesus ?

If so please point it out, thank you !

BTW- I was hoping you were going to interject your thoughts on the context.

 

[APAK]

Ok ..let me dispense then with the entire context, against my wishes, and just focus on verses 9 and 10. The translated word 'godhead' or old English version 'godhood' as the 'head God' is a very misleading translation, and is a nonsense word. The better word is divinity or deity and never implied the 'head' of anything.

So, the author in verse 9 was saying that Christ possessed the deity/divine Spirit of the Father IN him. It was full or complete because the author wanted to stress that he had no other spirit with-IN him. Then in verse 10 the main bottom line verse for us, is that, as Christ has the Father's spirit within him, in full, then we also have only the spirit of Christ in us, in full.

Now if the author was actually saying, and he clearly was not, that Christ is the same divine Spirit as/is his Father, then he also must be saying that we are also the same spirit as Christ, Christ himself. We are Christ and that would be nonsense.

Recap:

We live in faith IN/BY Christ's spirit given to us by the Father. It is the same spirit of Christ although not Christ himself (this used to be considered a mystery of God, the Father. It should not be confusing). This faith then is given by the Father, and this faith can only come by way of Christ's spirit now withIN us because Christ himself has the Father withIN him. We now live in faith in Christ all given by the Father (our faith and his Son's spirit).

You cannot force verse 9 to mean Christ is the Father's Spirit. He is not God, the Father. Now if you do what I suggested by looking at the context first, you would not consider forcing such a meaning for verse 9. It would stand out of context then....and the entire meaning of chapter 2 would be changed...

And Colossians setting is for Christ whilst on earth and in heaven today...body means an earthly body and his new spiritual body in heaven...



APAK

 

[DNB]

The church at Colossae was under attack from false teachers who were denigrating the deity of Jesus; they were teaching that He was not actually God. Though Paul had never been to the church itself, he addressed these issues head-on. The nature of Jesus Christ as Creator and Redeemer was nonnegotiable, so Paul wrote to them that he might bring his wisdom to bear on this difficult and trying situation. It was critical to him that this church know God in His greatness and glory, rather than in the deficient view given them by the false teachers (Colossians 1:25; 2:1–2).Book of Colossians Overview - Insight for Living Ministries

In this book, the apostle Paul described Jesus with some of the loftiest language in all the New Testament, focusing on Christ’s preeminence and sufficiency in all things. Paul presented Christ as the center of the universe, not only as the active Creator but also as the recipient of creation—in His taking on of human flesh. Christ was and is the visible image of the invisible God, containing within Himself the fullness of Deity (Colossians 2:9). Because of His divine nature, Jesus is sovereign, above all things with an authority given Him by the Father. As such, Jesus is also Head over the church. He has reconciled all things to Himself through His death on the cross, making believers alive to God and setting them on the path to right living. This proper view of Christ served as the antidote for the Colossian heresy as well as a building block for Christian life and doctrine both then and now.

hope this helps !!!

If you would take the time Christophany to, first of all, read the entire pericope, and secondly, try and understand the profundity of the mystery and wisdom of Christ, you wouldn't jump to, and espouse, such absurd and ridiculous conclusions.
Paul is by no way intending to explicate that Jesus is God. His language expresses a being that is being exalted by God, to which God was pleased to endow him with His spirit, and subsequently exalt him to the authority and position where he resides now. Such vocabulary and delineation does not define a deity, but rather establishes a relationship between God and a creature, to whom all authority and power has been given, ordained before time began.
You shamefully fail to see the implausibility of the existence of a trinity, in regard to the fact that one of the persons is consistently omitted from all doxologies towards, and purposes defined for, the Godhead. Such imbalance in regards to the glory and purpose of Christ, undermines, and even precludes, the option that all 3 persons of the pagan trinity are co-equal in any manner whatsoever. Only God the Father exalts and bestows, and only Christ is glorified from a creaturely status, no mention of the Holy Spirit anywhere in all the doxologies towards the Father, and the honoured Son.
Your exegesis is disgraceful.

 

[ChristisGod]

If you would take the time Christophany to, first of all, read the entire pericope, and secondly, try and understand the profundity of the mystery and wisdom of Christ, you wouldn't jump to, and espouse, such absurd and ridiculous conclusions.
Paul is by no way intending to explicate that Jesus is God. His language expresses a being that is being exalted by God, to which God was pleased to endow him with His spirit, and subsequently exalt him to the authority and position where he resides now. Such vocabulary and delineation does not define a deity, but rather establishes a relationship between God and a creature, to whom all authority and power has been given, ordained before time began.
You shamefully fail to see the implausibility of the existence of a trinity, in regard to the fact that one of the persons is consistently omitted from all doxologies towards, and purposes defined for, the Godhead. Such imbalance in regards to the glory and purpose of Christ, undermines, and even precludes, the option that all 3 persons of the pagan trinity are co-equal in any manner whatsoever. Only God the Father exalts and bestows, and only Christ is glorified from a creaturely status, no mention of the Holy Spirit anywhere in all the doxologies towards the Father, and the honoured Son.
Your exegesis is disgraceful.

the heretical teaching is unitarianism, a false god and christ, a false gospel as well.

Your ad hominems duly noted.

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

If you would take the time Christophany to, first of all, read the entire pericope, and secondly, try and understand the profundity of the mystery and wisdom of Christ, you wouldn't jump to, and espouse, such absurd and ridiculous conclusions.
Paul is by no way intending to explicate that Jesus is God. His language expresses a being that is being exalted by God, to which God was pleased to endow him with His spirit, and subsequently exalt him to the authority and position where he resides now. Such vocabulary and delineation does not define a deity, but rather establishes a relationship between God and a creature, to whom all authority and power has been given, ordained before time began.
You shamefully fail to see the implausibility of the existence of a trinity, in regard to the fact that one of the persons is consistently omitted from all doxologies towards, and purposes defined for, the Godhead. Such imbalance in regards to the glory and purpose of Christ, undermines, and even precludes, the option that all 3 persons of the pagan trinity are co-equal in any manner whatsoever. Only God the Father exalts and bestows, and only Christ is glorified from a creaturely status, no mention of the Holy Spirit anywhere in all the doxologies towards the Father, and the honoured Son.
Your exegesis is disgraceful.

Well said and I believe compliments most of what I attempted to convey...thanks..it's encouraging brother..APAK

 

[ChristisGod]

Well said and I believe compliments most of what I attempted to convey...thanks..it's encouraging brother..APAK

the unitarians are coming out of the woodwork. at least I know your theological bent which is to denounce Christ of His Glory as God. John 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1

 

[ChristisGod]

@APAK

And your eisegesis speaks for itself as nothing you stated is in Colossians 2:10

Colossians 2:8-10
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

you made it up out of thin air.

 

[DNB]

the heretical teaching is unitarianism, a false god and christ, a false gospel as well.

Your ad hominems duly noted.

hope this helps !!!

Your lack, and ability, of argumentation was duly noted!

 

[kcnalp]

Your lack, and ability, of argumentation was duly noted!

Such irony!

 

[ChristisGod]

Your lack, and ability, of argumentation was duly noted!

The OP stands irrefutable. Duly noted.

 

[DNB]

@APAK

And your eisegesis speaks for itself as nothing you stated is in Colossians 2:10

Colossians 2:8-10
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

you made it up out of thin air.

The quintessence of eisegesis is isolating passages in order to substantiate a position. This is indicative of trinitarian hermeneutics, they are unable to find a paragraph, that in its entirety, asserts that Jesus is God. All any trinitarian has ever been able to produce, are remote and truncated verses, that context-wise, and intelligence wise, have absolutely no merit whatsoever.
Having the '...fullness of deity dwell within him...' juxtaposed with verse 12 '... having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead....'

This, clearly does not denote a deity of essence, but of character and purpose. We are all created in God's image, each of us have the potential for perfection, and reflecting the full image of God. Jesus loved God with all his heart, mind and soul, thus he attained perfection. ...an act that would be pathetically absurd if Christ were God. You're not getting the point. God's Atonement does not require that He comes to earth first, to love Himself, and therefore, to propitiate Himself. You trinitarians blaspheme the wisdom of God with your narrow minded eisegesis.