America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.

[Shelli]

There is no Scripture which says anybody has a "right" to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.No founding documents giving any "freedoms" or "rights" to American citizens can add to or improve upon what true Christians have in Christ.True Christians in America do not need any "freedoms," "rights," or laws to worship and obey God.Shelli.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

AMEN! The Disciples could care less about this world, just the people in it who are in great need of salvation. Giving hope to those with no hope, They could care less who was in Power. People will use the Old Testament and use the Kings and Judges as an Example, BUT WE ARE LIVING IN THE DAYS OF NOAH! There is not righteous ruler, as I have pointed out most these Souther Christians are greedy Far Right Wing Christians. This country was founded on Masonic Grounds. We are in that Last Generation that shall not pass until all his Gentile Bride and Jewish Remnants are Gathered HaShem Y'shua HaMashiach. Restoring Israel, Israel becoming a State, the Jews Returning only mean they are fulfilling his Word his Prophecy. But his Kingdom is not of this world, will never be part of this World. His Kingdom descends NOT ASCENDS. God Bless his People, not the World. I'm tired of all these Christians who are deeply rooted into politics and military telling me I'm not a True Christian! The Holy Spirit is my advocate, my witness, my attorney and he will Vindicate me. AMENAn end to the WORLDLY SYSTEMS! AMEN!

 

[crooner]

ride on guys.I read a good book you might of read the Myth of a Christian Nation- Gregory BoydCrooner

 

[tim_from_pa]

(Shelli;23853)
There is no Scripture which says anybody has a "right" to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.No founding documents giving any "freedoms" or "rights" to American citizens can add to or improve upon what true Christians have in Christ.True Christians in America do not need any "freedoms," "rights," or laws to worship and obey God.Shelli.
So.... where would you rather live then if these rights are not important to you? You rather be a Christian in China or India for example where they have to worship under cover? I get a little agitated when someone shoots off like this and they don't know what a God-given blessing they have until it is taken away. I'd repent if I were you.Anyone else here hate America?

 

[preciousmessage]

(Unorthodox Christian;23859)
AMEN! The Disciples could care less about this world, just the people in it who are in great need of salvation. Giving hope to those with no hope, They could care less who was in Power. People will use the Old Testament and use the Kings and Judges as an Example, BUT WE ARE LIVING IN THE DAYS OF NOAH! There is not righteous ruler, as I have pointed out most these Souther Christians are greedy Far Right Wing Christians. This country was founded on Masonic Grounds. We are in that Last Generation that shall not pass until all his Gentile Bride and Jewish Remnants are Gathered HaShem Y'shua HaMashiach. Restoring Israel, Israel becoming a State, the Jews Returning only mean they are fulfilling his Word his Prophecy. But his Kingdom is not of this world, will never be part of this World. His Kingdom descends NOT ASCENDS. God Bless his People, not the World. I'm tired of all these Christians who are deeply rooted into politics and military telling me I'm not a True Christian! The Holy Spirit is my advocate, my witness, my attorney and he will Vindicate me. AMENAn end to the WORLDLY SYSTEMS! AMEN!
Yes brother, I get tired of hearing that I'm not grounded in Christian principles because I too am not rooted in politics and the military. But this type of thinking will be with us to the end, for it is with the mass of "Christianity."Years ago the prayer of the chaplain of the United States Congress at the opening of the session said, “Let peace reign within our borders. Yet may we be quick to resent anything like insult.” The spirit of popular Christianity today is not the spirit of the Prince of Peace. Jesus Christ and his disciples were basically called fanatics and alarmists for a message of peace. We need not be afraid of being called alarmists, for God has said, “Sound an alarm in My holy mountain; let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; for the day of the Lord cometh, it is nigh at hand.”The following quote is very interesting; written decades ago:When the Apostle Paul wrote, there was no such thing as a “Christian nation” on earth. The Emperor Nero was on the throne of the world, and Christians were slaughtered by him without mercy. It is doubtful if another such monster of cruelty ever lived before or since his day. Yet the power was “ordained of God.”Imagine the Apostle Paul calling for vengeance on Nero, and asking that Rome be assaulted with engines of war! Yet it would have been no worse than for ministers to call for the bombardment of Constantinople. For Christians to have resisted the Roman Government [in a war sense], because of the abominations of Nero, would have been to bring damnation upon themselves. What makes it any different now, when the provocation is not nearly so great as it was then?We are not apologising for cruelty and wickedness; but wickedness on the part of a heathen or a Mohammedan cannot be made right by wickedness on the part of professed Christians. Revenge doesn’t right a wrong. To resist the Government of Turkey is to resist the ordinance of God just as surely as it would be to resist the Government of England or the United States; and Christians will not resist or denounce even their worst enemies or bitterest persecutors. The time has come when Christ’s professed followers must decide whether they will follow Him or not; whether His words are practical, everyday life, or not.” End QuoteJake

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

precious message GOD BLESS YOU! I'm happy more Christians are more Up to Heaven, you know how people use that term You're a down to earth guy. Well I have a new term, or a less commonly used term, More up to Heaven. You know the Truth brother and I love it and it brings joy to my heart and my spirit and soul to know brothers think alike with Me! It's a wonderful sight to see brothers in our Lord Y'shua HaMashiach know the Truth, live against the grain(the World) and stay with his Word. God Bless HaShem Y'shua HaMashiach(In the Name of Jesus Christ)

 

[preciousmessage]

(tim_from_pa;23944)
So.... where would you rather live then if these rights are not important to you? You rather be a Christian in China or India for example where they have to worship under cover? I get a little agitated when someone shoots off like this and they don't know what a God-given blessing they have until it is taken away. I'd repent if I were you.Anyone else here hate America?
I cannot speak hypothetically in regards to where one would rather live. You are making assumptions and diving into the motives of one's heart. I do not hate America, yet America cannot supersede the principles of Christ. "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Christ said, "My kingdom is not of this world." Is Canada, America, England, Mexico of this world or not of this world? On a side note: I know of a Pastor who was a missionary in Africa for over 20 years. When he came back he found that the temptations were much greater because of the tremendous prosperity of America. He said that Americans are very lukewarm when it comes to Christianity in contrast to the revivals in third world countries, who have nothing. If God so calls me to go over seas, so be it. But even America needs the gospel. Peace to you. Jake

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

AMEN the Letter to Laodicea in Revelation about Being Lukewarm, was like a foreshadow of America.

 

[preciousmessage]

(Unorthodox Christian;23952)
precious message GOD BLESS YOU! I'm happy more Christians are more Up to Heaven, you know how people use that term You're a down to earth guy. Well I have a new term, or a less commonly used term, More up to Heaven. You know the Truth brother and I love it and it brings joy to my heart and my spirit and soul to know brothers think alike with Me! It's a wonderful sight to see brothers in our Lord Y'shua HaMashiach know the Truth, live against the grain(the World) and stay with his Word. God Bless HaShem Y'shua HaMashiach(In the Name of Jesus Christ)
Amen, well stated! Joining together in the unity of faith is certainly a blessed thing brother. I like the term, "More up to Heaven." You know that saying, "You're so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good." I disagree, the more heavenly minded the more good one can do for mankind. It is the "love of God that constrains me." ... "He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all." John 3:31. blessings to you in Christ,Jake

 

[Pariah]

That is true, Shelli.

 

[preciousmessage]

(Shelli;23853)
There is no Scripture which says anybody has a "right" to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.No founding documents giving any "freedoms" or "rights" to American citizens can add to or improve upon what true Christians have in Christ.True Christians in America do not need any "freedoms," "rights," or laws to worship and obey God.Shelli.
Well stated Shelli. We only have to look to Christ hanging upon the cross of Calvary. According to the world, He had no freedom or rights. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." According to scripture, we deserve death, not freedom, and the Bible speaks of the gift of God, not the rights of man. Jake

 

[Shelli]

(tim_from_pa;23944)
So.... where would you rather live then if these rights are not important to you? You rather be a Christian in China or India for example where they have to worship under cover? I get a little agitated when someone shoots off like this and they don't know what a God-given blessing they have until it is taken away. I'd repent if I were you.Anyone else here hate America?
Tim,Soooo....,Where did you read me to say I "hated America?" And, why are you changing the subjuect to a comparison of livability between America and other countries?You mentioned some "rights" in your first sentence above. Are these "rights" of actual necessity for you as a Christian? You seem to have missed the point of the thread. Can you find Scripture which says you have a "right" to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?What exactly are you saying I should "repent" of? Am I to "repent" for saying truth you do not feel good about ... ?Shelli.

 

[tim_from_pa]

But this type of thinking will be with us to the end, for it is with the mass of "Christianity."
Just for the record, what I believe is not in the mass of Christianity since most have no clue what I am talking about (as evidenced), nor is it worldly. I am looking forward more than many of the coming of our Lord to set up His Kingdom here on Earth.However, I'm telling you all, that the people of the United States, Great Britain and other Christian countries especially in NW Europe had their physical roots in Israel. God used all of us to spread His message--- the founding of the United States was under divine guidance and prophecy as without it Christianity would not have the impact it does today with just individuals being saved in all heathen nations. I am just as frustrated as the rest of you regarding the worldly system and how things are corrupted, but that has to do with human nature.Tell me, if all nations are worldly (as if it matters not to God whether they exist or not) then does Israel in the Middle east have a right to exist? Are they worldly, too, and if so, can God change that?

 

[tim_from_pa]

What exactly are you saying I should "repent" of? Am I to "repent" for saying truth you do not feel good about ... ?
Well Shelli, if what you said had an ounce of truth in it, I would believe it since I believe in truth. It has nothing to do about feeling good. Obviously you have no clue of the divine intervention that brought about America and as it now stands, I would estimate you severely misunderstand about 7/8's of the Bible.

 

[preciousmessage]

(tim_from_pa;23966)
Just for the record, what I believe is not in the mass of Christianity since most have no clue what I am talking about (as evidenced), nor is it worldly. I am looking forward more than many of the coming of our Lord to set up His Kingdom here on Earth.However, I'm telling you all, that the people of the United States, Great Britain and other Christian countries especially in NW Europe had their physical roots in Israel. God used all of us to spread His message--- the founding of the United States was under divine guidance and prophecy as without it Christianity would not have the impact it does today with just individuals being saved in all heathen nations. I am just as frustrated as the rest of you regarding the worldly system and how things are corrupted, but that has to do with human nature.Tell me, if all nations are worldly (as if it matters not to God whether they exist or not) then does Israel in the Middle east have a right to exist? Are they worldly, too, and if so, can God change that?
Greetings,May we stick close to the word of God. According to Galatians 4:21-31 there are two covenants, and there are two cities pertaining to the same. Jerusalem which now is pertains to the old covenant, "and is in bondage with her children." It will never be replaced by the City of God, the heavenly Jerusalem, which is "above" and is "free." Galatians 4:25:26. Many are building great hope on the present Jerusalem. For when they read the old covenant, the same veil remains unlifted. 2 Corinthians 3:14. Whoever looks to the present Jerusalem for blessings is looking to the old covenant to Mount Sinai, to slavery. There is no salvation in the old covenant and never has been. There will be a gathering of Israel to Jerusalem, but it will not be to “Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children;” it will be the gathering of all the saints of God—the New Israel—to the New Jerusalem. Those who unite with Christ belong to the "Israel of God." The natural descendants of Abraham were never considered as the true Israel, and heirs according to the promise, unless they were like him, righteous. When Christ told the Jews that if they believed in him they should know the truth and the truth should make them free, they replied, “We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man.” John 8:33. But Jesus showed them that they were in a worse bondage than any human slavery, namely, the bondage of sin (verse 34); and to their repeated statements that they were the children of Abraham, he replied: “If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God; this did not Abraham.” “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.” Verses 39, 40, 44.God made a covenant with Abraham, promising to give Him “all the land of Canaan” (Gen. 15:3-28; 17:4-8), which constituted him “heir of the world.” Rom. 4:13. This promise was “through the righteousness of faith.”It was “to Abraham and his seed,” and assured the land to them “for an everlasting possession.” "And God gave him no inheritance in it, not even to set his foot on." Acts 7:5. Since the promise of the land of Canaan was to Abraham "and" his seed, Christ being the "Seed", then Abraham must come with the promise. Therefore, it must be after the resurrection of Abraham that he inherits the land with Christ. New Jerusalem above is free, not the earthly. "Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Revelation 21:2. Jake

 

[Shelli]

(tim_from_pa;23967)
Well Shelli, if what you said had an ounce of truth in it, I would believe it since I believe in truth. It has nothing to do about feeling good. Obviously you have no clue of the divine intervention that brought about America and as it now stands, I would estimate you severely misunderstand about 7/8's of the Bible.
Tell us about this "divine intervention" which brought America into being, and "as it now stands."Can you refute my original statement that Scripture does not speak of any "right" for people to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?Can you actually find any part of my original post which is untrue? Or, are you just emotionally upset, and are flinging out some accusations to make your ideas look better ... ?Go ahead, and speak up like a strong man of God.Shelli.Shelli.

 

[preciousmessage]

(tim_from_pa;23967)
I believe in truth. It has nothing to do about feeling good.
Hi Tim,Consider the following:"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16.Respectfully, I believe there has not been "one" scripture given by you to make your case "in righteousness" in this whole thread. I personally cannot make a case for any doctrine (teaching) without using God's word. My own word means next to nothing without Christ Jesus as the Word.A quote that has been very helpful to me personally:"Opinions really have no place in the teaching of the Gospel, nor in anybody’s Christian experience. They have no connection whatsoever with faith. “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” Rom.10:17. Whatever the Word of God says is sure, and therefore we may know it. ... Nevertheless we are not to condemn any person. The Church of Christ is not in the least like any society formed by men, where certain tests are applied to any applicant for membership, and those who do not meet the minds of the members are rejected. It is the body of Christ, and, like Christ Himself, it is a school, to which all are called to come and learn." End Quoteblessings in Christ to you,Jake

 

[tim_from_pa]

Tell us about this "divine intervention" which brought America into being, and "as it now stands."
Here's a site that explains it easily---- go to the yellow 5 steps box.http://www.britishisrael.co.uk/old/You can also read my downloadable book, instead of challenging the revelations the bible gives.Next of all, you mentioned a document giving freedoms and rights earlier. That's not what it says. It says:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
So, according to the document, who gives these rights? The government? NO, that's the thinking of the vast majority of the clueless population. God does. It's government's duty, as a servant, to PROTECT these rights. I look to the US government for nothing granted to me in these three areas. It's their job to protect them as "we the people".Now, does God give life? Let's check our bibles on this one shall we?
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Eph 1:4-6
There's life and liberty in Christ. Like parents that plan a child, they intend for him/her to be born and have life. What did Jesus give? Death and bondage? And as for happiness:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23
I think what the issue here is that when you say nobody has a "right" according to scripture, I think you are misinterpreting that as meaning demands from the person's side. The declaration of Independence on the other hand acknowledges life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness because God already has given people this right (not because they demanded it) by virtue of the fact that they are created and exist. That's why I used the predestination scripture to illustrate life and liberty because that decision was made before the person existed, God ordained life to the person. That act is the "right" that the Declaration of Independence is talking about.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

I believe that during the Diaspora, Jews moved into Europe, now with that said, many mixed with Gentiles while Others stayed within their People. The ones that stayed with their people are the literal jews, the Jews who are mixed with Gentilian Blood are still Gentile. In Deuteronomy or Levitus I believe a Jew couldn't intermix with a non-jew, or an Israelite with a non-Israelite. The Jews in New York, California all over the US are either Judaic Kabbalic Proselytes or Literal Jews from the blood line of the Patriachs or Hebrews. With that said those who believe that America and Britain are the Promise land are fooling themselves. These are havens for the People of God to dwell in. IN the last Days THE TRUE REMNANT JEWS, HEBREWS, THOSE OF JACOB will come back to the Promised Land. Not these White Jews that claim they are Jews! I feel I'm digressing, but Tim forgive me, I noticed how extreme I was towards you. God Bless

 

[tim_from_pa]

I feel I'm digressing, but Tim forgive me, I noticed how extreme I was towards you. God Bless
I think you are just taking things too much internally. I did not sense this at all, in spite of the fact that I am pretty much of a prescient person. I'm debating doctrine here---- and I tend to separate the message from the messenger. Back to the debate..... any other thoughts?