Amillenialism and Acts 1:11

[friend of]

Acts of the Apostles 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Question for Amill/Preterists

How was this scripture fulfilled? Did Jesus return yet?

 

[Deborah_]

Amillennial answer:
We are still waiting for Jesus to return.

Surely this is obvious?

 

[Episkopos]

Amillennial answer:
We are still waiting for Jesus to return.

Surely this is obvious?

Let's go with that!

 

[Dave L]

Acts of the Apostles 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Question for Amill/Preterists

How was this scripture fulfilled? Did Jesus return yet?

Jesus presently reigns on David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem above until the resurrection on the last day. He then delivers the kingdom up to the Father where he continues to reign in the new heavens and earth forever.

 

[CNKW3]

Acts of the Apostles 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Question for Amill/Preterists

How was this scripture fulfilled? Did Jesus return yet?

This will be fulfilled in his second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[CNKW3]

Question for Premills, postmills or whatever you are.

What passages do you use that speak of Christ setting foot back on earth again?

 

[CoreIssue]

This will be fulfilled in his second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That is the rapture coming.

 

[Enoch111]

What passages do you use that speak of Christ setting foot back on earth again?

Dozens. You could start here (Zech 14:3,4) and then do your necessary research. But 1 Thess 4 is about the Rapture, not the Second Coming.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[CoreIssue]

Pre Tribulation Rapture

 

[CNKW3]

That is the rapture coming.

Call it whatever you want but it is when Christ will return also described by Paul in this way..
1 Corinthians 15:23-24 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[CoreIssue]

Call it whatever you want but it is when Christ will return also described by Paul in this way..
1 Corinthians 15:23-24 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The pre-tribulation rapture first. Then the two witnesses and then:

Revelation 20:4-5 New International Version (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya]">[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection is from the rapture until the end of time.

The second is at the time and 1000 years after the resurrection of the martyrs.

Definitely not amillennialism.

 

[CNKW3]

Dozens. You could start here (Zech 14:3,4) and then do your necessary research. But 1 Thess 4 is about the Rapture, not the Second Coming.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

So there are dozens and you give me one. If there are dozens a list of ten should not be that difficult. But let’s look at the one you gave.

Zechariah prophesied long before Christ first coming so is it not reasonable to believe he is talking about the first time Christ came to earth?

In the first 13 chapters we find the following prophecies...

1. 3:8; 6:12,13 talk about the Branch
2. He is also to build the temple of the Lord. What is the church that Jesus built referred too? The temple or Gods building. 1 Cor 3:9; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:21
3. He is to rule upon his throne. He rules and reigns today as priest and king just like it said.
4. 9:9. The king is coming and he will be bringing salvation, lowly, riding on a donkey.
5. 11:12,13 speak of the servant being bought for a price of 30 pieces and that payment being cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.
6. 12:10 speaks of mourning for the one they pierced
7. 13:6,7 speak of seeing the wounds in his hands that were given by his friends and how the shepherd was smitten and the sheep scattered.

So far every single one of these prophecies is about his first coming and it is no different in chapter 14. The text never mentions him being on mount olive as a second coming. You made that up. The text never says that.

It does say this...
He is to fight. At no time past or future is Christ fighting a carnal war. His is spiritual. He said that if his kingdom were of this world his people would fight. His fight is not with swords. He fights through the church/kingdom that he built. A kingdom that will never be destroyed. The Romans came and took Jerusalem but now they are long gone but the church isn’t.

Zechariah 14:8-9 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

This has already happened. At Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out at the beginning of the church. Christ confirms it in John 7...

John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


So you see that the whole book of Zechariah is about a first coming and what Christ would do at that time. He would be a servant bringing salvation smitten and wounded but ultimately victorious through his resurrection and the church.

So, try another one of your dozens of passages because this one doesn’t say what you claim it does. Do you have any New Test passages saying Christ will set foot back on the earth? Let’s look at those.

 

[CNKW3]

The pre-tribulation rapture first. Then the two witnesses and then:

Revelation 20:4-5 New International Version (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya]">[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection is from the rapture until the end of time.

The second is at the time and 1000 years after the resurrection of the martyrs.

Definitely not amillennialism.

So you won’t be in the rapture because the text says it is only the beheaded. And the text speaks of a 2000 year long period. Where does everybody get a 1000 year reign with Christ? The truth is that these numbers are symbolic of completion. Numbers, especially in highly figurative books like revelation, have meaning and are not meant to be taken literally. Like 144,000. All figurative.

 

[CoreIssue]

So you won’t be in the rapture because the text says it is only the beheaded. And the text speaks of a 2000 year long period. Where does everybody get a 1000 year reign with Christ? The truth is that these numbers are symbolic of completion. Numbers, especially in highly figurative books like revelation, have meaning and are not meant to be taken literally. Like 144,000. All figurative.

I repeat, the martyrs are resurrected, not raptured, at the second coming.

The church is resurrected in rapture before the tribulation.

The problem with declaring figurative is it is in the eyes of the holder what the words may. You have no proof for literal interpretation.

 

[tzcho2]

This will be fulfilled in his second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Who told you that? Does your church preach that? Did you hear this or read it on the internet? Don't try to say just the bible because I don't believe you got this idea all by yourself.

 

[Davy]

So there are dozens and you give me one. If there are dozens a list of ten should not be that difficult. But let’s look at the one you gave.

Zechariah prophesied long before Christ first coming so is it not reasonable to believe he is talking about the first time Christ came to earth?

In the first 13 chapters we find the following prophecies...

1. 3:8; 6:12,13 talk about the Branch
2. He is also to build the temple of the Lord. What is the church that Jesus built referred too? The temple or Gods building. 1 Cor 3:9; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:21
3. He is to rule upon his throne. He rules and reigns today as priest and king just like it said.
4. 9:9. The king is coming and he will be bringing salvation, lowly, riding on a donkey.
5. 11:12,13 speak of the servant being bought for a price of 30 pieces and that payment being cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.
6. 12:10 speaks of mourning for the one they pierced
7. 13:6,7 speak of seeing the wounds in his hands that were given by his friends and how the shepherd was smitten and the sheep scattered.

So far every single one of these prophecies is about his first coming and it is no different in chapter 14. The text never mentions him being on mount olive as a second coming. You made that up. The text never says that.

It does say this...
He is to fight. At no time past or future is Christ fighting a carnal war. His is spiritual. He said that if his kingdom were of this world his people would fight. His fight is not with swords. He fights through the church/kingdom that he built. A kingdom that will never be destroyed. The Romans came and took Jerusalem but now they are long gone but the church isn’t.

Zechariah 14:8-9 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

This has already happened. At Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out at the beginning of the church. Christ confirms it in John 7...

John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


So you see that the whole book of Zechariah is about a first coming and what Christ would do at that time. He would be a servant bringing salvation smitten and wounded but ultimately victorious through his resurrection and the church.

So, try another one of your dozens of passages because this one doesn’t say what you claim it does. Do you have any New Test passages saying Christ will set foot back on the earth? Let’s look at those.

You are preaching a doctrine of men, not God's Word.

Strongly... disagree on your placing all of those Scriptures in the past at Christ's 1st coming.

Jesus has not yet come to inherit David's throne, for it is an earthly throne, not a heavenly one. At present Jesus is sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven (. Matthew 25 tells us when Jesus will come to sit on His throne of His father David...

Matt 25:31
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
KJV


The following rule is still yet to come...

Ps 110:1-2
110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit thou at My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
KJV


That is where Apostle Paul was pulling from in 1 Cor.15 when he said Jesus must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. That is what the future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 is about. That Ps.110:2 shows He will do that reign right here on earth, in the midst of His enemies. In Revelation 3:9, He even told His elect of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those of the synagogue of Satan to come worship (Him) at their feet. That has never... happened to this day, and will not until Jesus returns to take reign over all the earth.

That "living waters" of Zechariah 14 that will flow out from Jerusalem is about God's River of Genesis 2 re-established on earth emitting from the millennial sanctuary of the future (Ezekiel 47). That has never... been fulfilled to this day.

That great battle of Zechariah 14:1-3 has yet to happen. That is about the battle of Armageddon on the last day of this present world. The last day is when the "day of the Lord" happens, and is also the day of Christ's 2nd coming to gather His Church, and do battle per Revelation 19.

Acts 1 reveals to us how Jesus is to return. The angels told His Apostles that were upon the Mount of Olives that He will return in like manner as He ascended into Heaven from there. Zechariah 14 shows Jesus' RETURN, with His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives. That event will then form a great valley running from east to west, something that definitely has not yet happened there in the middle east.

Zechariah 14:9 says The LORD will be king over ALL THE EARTH, that in that day there shall be only one LORD. Today, there are still many different gods being worshiped by man. Thus there definitely is not just ONE LORD being worshiped on earth today! And NONE of those other forms of worship going on today recognize Jesus of Nazareth as God! Even Judaism refuses to admit Jesus is God The Son.

I could go further in that Zechariah 14 chapter showing how it has not yet come to pass today. It's not all that difficult. all one has to do is actually STAY with what those Scriptures state using common sense. But Alas, playing religion with men's doctrines demands that common sense understanding be thrown out the window.

 

[CoreIssue]

Who told you that? Does your church preach that? Did you hear this or read it on the internet? Don't try to say just the bible because I don't believe you got this idea all by yourself.

Amillennialism.

Everything is figurative so it can mean anything they want.

 

[marks]

So you see that the whole book of Zechariah is about a first coming and what Christ would do at that time. He would be a servant bringing salvation smitten and wounded but ultimately victorious through his resurrection and the church.

OK, color me silly, but . . .

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
(1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
(4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

When did God gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle?
Said battle resulting in the city captured, and so on.
The Lord fighting against those nations as in the day of battle.
And He stands on the mount of olives.
And there is a new valley.

?

 

[marks]

So you won’t be in the rapture because the text says it is only the beheaded. And the text speaks of a 2000 year long period. Where does everybody get a 1000 year reign with Christ? The truth is that these numbers are symbolic of completion. Numbers, especially in highly figurative books like revelation, have meaning and are not meant to be taken literally. Like 144,000. All figurative.

Figurative of what, may I ask?

How about these 144,000? Are these not 12,000 men from the physical descendants of Jacob?

Much love!

 

[CoreIssue]

OK, color me silly, but . . .

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
(1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
(4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

When did God gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle?
Said battle resulting in the city captured, and so on.
The Lord fighting against those nations as in the day of battle.
And He stands on the mount of olives.
And there is a new valley.

?

Solidly Revelation and second coming.