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Featured Another horrendous story in the news

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by michaelvpardo, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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  2. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    Well, this isn’t exactly news. That haze happened last year. And yes, for a large part it was man-made: many fires were started by companies who wanted to clear land for palm oil plantations. One more reason to support environmentalist groups who stand up against this madness.
    As bad as this fire was, it hardly makes our days any darker than the days before us. I for once would not want live back in the centuries when my continent was ravaged by the pest and endless wars. Our times just seem to be particularly bad to us because we tend to forget about past sufferings and because – contrary to our predecessors in the olden days - these days we’ve got 24h news about catastrophes happening at the other end of the world.
    While I’m prone to be a doomer and gloomer myself, it does good to put things into perspective here and there.
     
  3. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    True enough, but we had newspapers, television, wire services and telephones 50 years ago (when I was a kid) and the news of a major earth quake or volcanic eruption, or violent revolution, or murder spree was really NEWS, both rare and frightening. There was, however, domestic terrorism back during my teen years from groups like the weather underground and other radicalized anti-war activists and civil rights extremists.
    I think that the actual news in that article was that over 100,000 were killed by the toxins. It seems a little strange to me that people in that part of the world have been using slash and burn agricultural techniques for millennia and yet we don't have any record of something like this happening in the past (or perhaps it did, but didn't make it to the Bing home page.)
    I've seen the world change a lot in 60 years, but I'm reasonably sure the greatest change is yet to come and that my eyes will see it.
    Do you wonder why deep water marine animals have been washing up on various shores in the last few years? Perhaps you already know and would like to offer some explanation. Its hard to know what's true and what isn't these days. I was taught that the majority of earth's oxygen was freed from CO2 by phytoplankton living in about the top 3 feet of water in the earth's oceans, but environmentalists have made the claim for decades that deforestation of the Amazon would ruin our oxygen supply (I was also taught that the rate of oxygen use by plants in respiration at temperatures above about 85 degrees was greater than the rate of its production, so that during the largest part of the year the Amazon jungle (and any tropical jungle) uses more O2 than it produces. Apparently biological sciences have changed radically since I received my degree.
    I understand that the time is coming when God will destroy those who are destroying the earth (as it says in the book of the Revelation), but just who is it that is destroying the earth? Big businesses? Weapons manufacturer's? Americans (who consume most of the worlds resources, though this is changing)? I don't deny global warming, but astronomical data indicates that this is happening all over our solar system and the last I heard was that the other planets are uninhabited. Perhaps its just those who have total disregard for God and His creation, but I suppose that we'll all find out soon enough. I'm not happy about the evil things going on in these days, but I'm delighted that it all will be over soon and what follows will be a kingdom of righteousness (though sparsely inhabited at first; a man will be as rare as the gold of Ophir.)
     
  4. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    Well, I suppose it’s a kind trick that God plays on our memory: we tend to remember the good better than the bad. Hence I too I’m prone to feel that the world still was rosy posy in the days of my childhood. But – as you’ve said for yourself – realistically speaking when I grew up in the 80ies there was a terrorist threat, the ozon-layer was dwindling (which thank God was then reversed by drasrically reducing the use of CFC) and people lived in constant fear of the cold war turning hot.
    Of course you are right that climate change and our ability to destroy the planet many times over pose an unprecedented threat. While there were always horrible earthquakes and volcano-eruptions, we are certainly already witnessing the onset of more extreme weather. If I remember right algae produce about 70% percent of the athmosphere’s oxygen and the rainforests a good deal of the rest. We’re in the process of destroying both these eco-systems and just one gone would make this planet pretty much uninhabitable. And since the last 200 years or so we’ve burned fossil fuels that have been millions of years in the making.
    However, I don’t think Christians ought to be defeatist about the destruction of God’s creation and just hope for this world’s misery to end soon.. We are called to be the light of the earth and good stewards! Not all of us can be ingenious engineers who come up with ideas for renewable energy etc. But all of us can work to minimize our own part in this world’s destruction by exercising our power as consumers. For a start we can cook with local organic produce rather than buying ready-made frozen pizzas with loads of cheap Indonesian palm oil in it. For more tips: http://cotap.org/reduce-carbon-footprint/
    If we as Christians are not willing to do whatever we can to make the world a better and safer place for all, including future generations, judgement day – whenever it may come - might well be just as harsh for us as for unscrupulous CEO’s and politicians who do their bidding and want to cancel the Paris climate deal .
     
  5. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    I see that you're an evolutionist by your reference to fossil fuels and consequently don't believe the entire book of scripture, so continued argument is meaningless. But, I'll tell you that man's modern religions (including science when it is believed before God) were intended to put you in bondage to fear. This Earth will burn soon with a cleansing fire from God and all that offends will be removed. This very morning while I was out having breakfast at Perkin's and while I was out food shopping, the Lord was ministering to me on these very things and I must tell them before my on-line ministry is complete.
    The word of God says that in the latter days the sun will get much hotter than it was when the word was committed to men. In Christ's millennial kingdom, there will be no oceans, and men will be scarce. There will be arable lands because the Lord has spoken about this, sending rains to those who celebrate the feast of tabernacles, withholding rains from those who don't. This is all in scripture, but I'll leave it to you to find it. My own family were ancient foresters and I'm assured that there will be forests in limited places, because the Lord has promised a place of habitation to every unclean creature on the face of the earth.
    Do you know where the safest place is on earth? The plains of Sodom and Gomorrah. Do you know why? Because those lands have already been judged by God with fire and as an example to His church, and God will by no means judge a land with fire twice. Why do I say this? The word tells us that the Lord judged the Earth by water in the days of Noah, and set the rainbow in the clouds as a sign of His covenant promise to never do this again. The word, in the law of Moses, tells us that all things (not some things) are purified by fire and by water (those which can't pass through the fire are purified by water). The earth was purified once by water and some places were purified by fire already, but the entire earth will be purified by fire (once). Consequently, the safest places on earth are those that have already been judged by fire. The Bible gives us more than two such places, history reveals more. Although evil men designed and built thermo-nuclear weapons, those that were used against lands were used ultimately within the Sovereign plan of God. The safest places in Japan would most likely be Nagasaki and Hiroshima, (though these don't have the added protection of low altitudes.) There are even some geological records of places in the Western Hemisphere that have been judged at some time by fire (places where stone was somehow glazed by temperatures high enough to melt silica.)
    Most of these places are considered uninhabitable or at the very least, not particularly pleasant places to live, but what does God say with regard to His kingdom? There will be springs in the wilderness and the dessert will blossom. God will bless those lands where His people take refuge, but no place on earth will remain unaffected by His judgment.
    God gave signs in His word for the inhabitants of Palestine of things to look for when judgment was approaching. I'll give you one that God has taught me from what is called the discipline of physics. Carry a compass with you, and when you see Magnetic north changing rapidly in circles, there is a magma pocket with a coreolis driven convection current headed your way. The scripture tells us that the earth is going to bring forth fire and pitch (similar to the way the wells of the deep opened with water in Noah's day) so there's going to be a whole lot of fire, massive movements of the earth's crust, and when its all over, only one land mass. Christ's return will change everything on earth, not just spiritual life, but all life.
     
  6. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    Scripture and God’s book of nature are not in conflict, Whenever you think they are, you should contemplate the possibility that your interpretation of scripture may be wrong. Maybe this side can help you to show you how science (evolution or that the earth does indeed move around the sun, etc) and Scripture are in perfect harmony: http://biologos.org/


    It seems to me that you are more fearful than I am. When I read the Book of Revelation I remember verse 21:5: “See, I am making all things new!”

    Sorry, but nowhere in scripture to I find a notion of the sun getting hotter or of “Christ’s millennial kingdom.” I see the Book of Revelations telling me that John of Patmos saw “(…) the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years.” (Rev 20:4) The Saints reigning with Christ for a thousand years is not the same as Christ reigning for a thousand years. Christ being God He reigns for all eternity. As for the “thousand years”: Scripture has a thing with numbers and to figure what they may mean you will have to see how the Bible uses them elsewhere. Surely you don’t believe God only owns the cattle on 1000 hills, but does not own the cattle on the 1001th hill. Clearly Psalm 50:10 wants to say that God owns the cattle on all of the hills, the complete number. Therefore the traditional Christian belief I myself hold is that the Saints and Christ are reigning right now in the “thousand year” church-age. They will reign until that age is complete, there’ll be a second coming of Christ, judgement day and then God will be all in all. (! Cor 15:28). While I am not in the Catholic habit of assuming that I can know for sure who’s a saint and who is not, I can think of a number of admirable Christians who died for their faith and whose faith bore ample fruit. Martin Luther King is just one of the more recent ones.


    You are lucky then that none of your ancestors thought “Oh, the end is nigh anyway. Why bother planting new trees for the ones that I logged down?”. Not that we can plant new oil. When that runs out our children and grandchildren will just have none left.
    Ever since the first days of Christianity there have been Christians around who were sure the end is nigh. And others who reminded them that not even the Lord Himself claimed to know the day ot the hour. It would be nice if the end-timers among us would at least consider the possibility that they may be just as wrong as those before them and that this planet may well need to sustain some more future generations..

    Safety will be the least of your concerns when God finds you relishing in death and decay rather than cherishing His very good creation as you should do (Gen 1:31). When we hear about palm oil plantations having driven orang utans near extinction, and that does not fill us with mourning and the will to do something about it, we must be bad stewards indeed. And I certainly don’t want to be found a bad steward.
    What gets me is that one neither has to be an ‘evolutionist’ nor an amillennialist to see that Christ does not want us to sit on our hands while waiting for the second coming. You can keep all your beliefs and still be concerned about God’s creation.
    So if one makes the victims of the Indonesia haze a simple pawn in the end-game, secretly rejoicing that surely their tragedy must mean that Christ will come soon and then Christians will be glorified, IMHO it shows that one has not quite understood what it means to love Christ and keep His commandments: This is my commandment: that you love one another as I have loved you. No one shows[greater love than when he lays down his life for his friends. (John 15:12)
    Obviously some Christians would not even lay down their industrialized junk-food and oil-guzzling cars for their fellowmen. Mind you, I myself am not free of guilt: Even though I go to work by bike and stick to a mostly eco-friedly diet, I still eat fish here and there, well knowing that industrial fishing destroys both sea-life and the livelihood of small African fishermen.
     
  7. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Junobet says: Sorry, but nowhere in scripture to I find a notion of the sun getting hotter or of “Christ’s millennial kingdom. Quote

    You have missed the unmistakable verses about the sun; Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 5:1-3 + many others that can only be attributed to a Coronal Mass Ejection, an explosion of the suns surface, that will literally fulfil all the graphic prophesies about the Lord sending fire to judge the world.
    Revelation 20 clearly states there will be a Millennium Kingdom of Jesus as King. Why refute it?
     
  8. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I hadn't realized that the site had gone cultic. Good luck with that though.
    Perhaps you should just read through the scripture once and just try to believe what it says plainly, then you can try to reconcile it to scientific fantasy. I've studied the sciences and find evolutionary science rather foolish and even contradictory. Perhaps I'm hindered by my IQ, they say when you're up in the top 5% that your mind works in ways that may not be reliable (though it isn't the people in the top 5% who say such things), and I have certainly experienced things which have made me question my sanity. The world is not what it appears to be, but you're free to live whatever way you like and believe whatever you want. I prefer to believe God.
     
  9. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    I don’t think to believe Genesis when it plainly says that God’s creation is good is in any way ‘cultic’. To regard the natural world as bad is part of the manichean heresy.

    It is of course possible that in 2000 years of Christianity you’re the first Christian who’s intelligent enough to have fully understood both Scripture and the natural world. But you’ll forgive that I doubt that.
     
  10. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    If you think these are unmistakable verses about the sun, you certainly lack the poetic mind this ancient literature requires. The prophesies of Isaiah’s Assyrian cycle already have come true by the way: Assyria’s star sank between 612 BC and 599 BC. And obviously I am not talking about an astronomical occurrence right now, but – as anybody familiar with Biblical metaphors will immediately realize - about a political one. It wasn’t the last empire to rise and fall and God knows how many more there’ll be rising and falling until judgement day. What to do to be prepared for that day at all times? Isaiah tells us not to put our trust in Empires but in God, who wants us to seek justice and take care of the poor and oppressed.

    The sentence “Charles reigns with Oscar for 10 years” doesn’t necessarily mean that Charles only reigns for ten years. Charles may well reign 20 years, ten of which he reigns with Oscar, ten of which he reigns alone or with somebody else. See?

    The Bible very clearly tells us that Christ reigns not just for a thousand years, but forever. It says so even in the Book of Revelation: Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” (Revelation 11:15) In regard of this world's misery many people find it hard to believe that right now Christ reigns with the Saints, and understandably so. But here you go: being Christian means to be optimistic and confident even in the face of suffering.
     
  11. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    How did you get to be on staff? The scripture tells us that the entire creation is groaning, is that because all things are good the way they are? God cursed the soil for man's sake, did you miss that part? Start taking the bible seriously, and then we can talk. I'm finished with ministry to doubters and critics of God's word, and judging by the markers that He's shown me, I won't have to do so for much longer.
     
  12. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Tick tock.
     
  13. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    You are getting all worked up, because somebody thinks that that what God deems very good is worthy of appreciation and protection? That’s what God made us for: to behold the beauty of His creation and give Him praise!


    I strongly suggest we read scripture with less gloom and more joy in our hearts: Romans 8 tells us that “creation has been groaning with the pains of childbirth”. In my book childbirth is a good and life-affirming thing. Paul also tells us that creation is “eagerly awaiting the revelation of God’s children” and that “the creation itself would also be set free from corrupting bondage in order to share the glorious freedom of God’s children.” It’s indeed human nature – our selfish greed as seen in said palm oil companies - that put creation under corrupting bondage in the first place. Somebody who lives by the Spirit is not selfish and greedy any more. Do God’s children rejoice when they hear about the suffering of others? Do they cheer on war and destruction? No, it’s the peacemakers that will be called God’s children (Mt. 5:9) and it is not those who tick tock the loudest but those who actually take good care of His household who will be rewarded when the master returns (Luke 12:42-44).
     
  14. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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  15. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    Sadly it seems you neither understood what I nor what Paul wrote. As for earthquakes and volcano-eruptions: surely you are aware that these aren’t recent phenomenons. In fact vulcanic and seismic activity are the very reason the earth with its continents and islands looks like it looks now. Here are just two of the many examples from the past. Dark days for the people of Pompeji and Lisbon and yet the end wasn’t nigh:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake
     
  16. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, it seems that you don't understand much of anything, but that's okay, you won't be confused for very much longer. Judah is awake and raising the standard of Jesus Christ.
    This very morning I spoke with a saint from the RCC who is hearing from the Lord the word to go forth and share his faith (not at all typical for members of that church); Ephraim is waking up. I've never met an adult Roman Catholic so anxious to share Christ, and I was a child in that church. If there is one here that is unafraid of what's coming, there are certainly more, and they shall stand because the Lord is able to make them stand.
    You're going to hear a rumbling tomorrow, and feel a shaking, but it hasn't come to you in judgment and you need not fear. Put away doubt, put away cowardice, let Christ be your confidence and the word your teacher, for the days are short and getting shorter. Blessed is the Lord, blessed is His coming. The whole Earth shakes and trembles. A fire goes before Him, a consuming fire. The latter rains fall, the harvest is ready, and blessed are those who are not ashamed of Him. Amen.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    We are experiencing the 'birth pangs of the new era'. There are wars and rumors of wars, famines, plagues and natural disasters. See that you are not alarmed, such things are bound to happen, for the end is yet to come. Matthew 24:9

    Michael Pardo, you know what is coming: the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, and today being the Day of Trumpets, is a likely time.
    However the prophets have given us several indications of things to happen before that Day and the date. But not the year!
    Malachi 4:5...Elijah will come before the great and terrible Day.... Not in evidence as yet. Maybe, just to the Jews. though?
    Joel 2:30-31 I shall set portents in the sky.....before..... Yet to happen.
    Psalm 83:1-18 .....The Islamic peoples form a confederation and conspire against Israel. This could be in place now, it's something we may not be told about.
    Haggai 2.....he mentions the 24th day of the ninth month 3 times, in conjunction with the Lord shaking the heavens and the earth and I see this date as when the Lord will take action. This year it falls on 23/24 December.
    I have articles on this and on all the Bible prophesies, free at logostelos,info
     
  18. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe. Scientists noted changes in the "great spot" on Jupiter very recently and these are the first noted since the spot became visible to Astronomers. They don't know what it means exactly, and I don't suppose that they are too concerned just yet.
    This past week the local news, radio, TV, internet, all picked up a story about some kind of error in the Babylonian calendar which altered the worlds' understanding of "the horoscope." If you look at the stories, they relate the fact that the ancient calendars were based upon Lunar months and so had a short month, a 13th month, to correct for our orbital period around the sun. The news stories don't present all the facts accurately, but this 13th constellation has been read into horoscopes for centuries and into the "heavenly gospel" written in the stars. The constellation's name is Ophiuchus and it is known as "the serpent bearer" because there are constellations on its right and left "hands" called "Serpens Cauda" and "Serpens Caput," translated as serpents tail and serpents head, respectively. While searching through some images of this portion of the sky, it became clear that some astronomer had caught something different in a photo, but right now there is only speculation as to what it is.
    [​IMG]

    This is the link that I copied from: https://coraskywalker.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ophiucus5.jpeg
    I made a joke of it at work, saying that God must like Foster's (the thing resembles a beer can to my old and muddled mind), but things are happening in the world and off of it that seem somewhat inexplicable and its going to get scary for people real soon. Even Steven Hawkins has made a recent statement about not welcoming "aliens" to the Earth which seemed a bit odd to me (he has much more serious issues to address.)
    I thought it an odd coincidence, but I was interrupted a few days ago while doing some reading in the first few chapters of Genesis in the ESV, and while I was speaking, my thumb accidentally managed to navigate to Isaiah chapter 65. Since I don't actually believe in simple coincidence, I read through chapters 65 and 66 and these deal with the restoration of Israel in the millennial kingdom and the judgment upon the apostate. The time is what it is and I've just been waiting for it. I never intended my life to be lead by my dreams, but when the events of my dreams occur they mark events that I associate with them, some of them biblical, some just personal. I appreciate all that the Lord does for me, but I still have to make my own decisions along the way, and if I knew everything that would happen in my own life I couldn't be said to have walked by faith.
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    I don't put much store in star signs, no need for God to arrange the constellations for us to know His plans. They are used for occult purposes, to their confusion!
    Re Isaiah 65 and 66: Read again Isaiah 65:1-16 and Isaiah 66:1-21, from the view of their fulfillment being BEFORE the Millennium. This is proved by the many prophesies that must happen before Jesus Returns. Like Isaiah 66:19 refers to the 144,000. and tells us what their task is.

    We are honored by being the generation that will see it all, Matthew 24:34. I look forward with great anticipation to the wonderful blessings that God has promised to His Christian peoples.
     
  20. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Well, I appreciate and agree with your comments (though I believe that it was star signs that lead the "wise men" from the east to seek out the Christ: Venus is the wandering star which is associated with kingly authority).
    I woke up this morning to some news about tremors on the west coast and though some might call it an educated guess, because of the prior activity in one of the CA parks, I praise our Lord for His faithfulness to the testimony of His called ones. There was also an eruption in Mexico about 17 hours ago, but I didn't read about it until I went on line to check e-mail this morning.
     
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