Any body in Heaven ?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

twinc

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2011
1,593
265
83
93
Faith
Country
United Kingdom
Is there any body in heaven - twinc
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well I am sure it isn't empty twinc ;)
 

twinc

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2011
1,593
265
83
93
Faith
Country
United Kingdom
Short answer ....NO ...with the exception of our Lord and Savior.

not many know or realise this or will accept -some even say the thief on the cross is in heaven - twinc
 

Suneses

New Member
Jun 4, 2018
14
8
3
60
Detroit
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
not many know or realize this or will accept -some even say the thief on the cross is in heaven - twinc


I know …

but as you are probably aware Jesus was speaking of paradise (in the future) not of heaven …..and the misplaced comma by translators has aided in the confusion.

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise

Should read … And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
 
Last edited:

GUANO

Member
Jun 5, 2018
30
13
8
40
Pasadena, CA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Heaven" generally isn't some place that anyone can physically "go". "Paradise" is not "heaven", though this is where the common mix-up lies.

First, it's important to understand how Christ Himself used the term, it generally goes: "and the Kingdom of God shall be like unto..." or "The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto...". This is the most important thing to understand about it. It is a figurative 'realm' that describes the forces that govern human behaviors and motivations on the grand scale. It is generally a 'place' used to describe some complex truth or principle (spirit) by using a language related to the natural forces that we perceive on earth (such as the sun, moon, weather, gardening, etc...).

When a man and a woman come together to form one flesh (a corporate body), where does it live? In it lives in "heaven". Where do the tribes and nations exist? In heaven. Are these beings alive? Not like us they aren't, but in dreams and visions they can appear as many things. Where do earth-born spirits such as your corporate church and 'employer' live? On earth, but in the atmosphere or 'aer' where it is recognized by other terrestrial spirits such as your local principality and other 'authorities'---Satan is the prince of the powers of the air and can just kinda "make things up". Whereas "family" and "nationality" are recognized by God and are governed by His immutable principles (such as DNA) and require no earthly authority to recognized it in our courts in order to exist.

The popular view of Heaven and Hades in Christianity is that of the pagan Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians, Assyrians, etc., and is primarily related to ancestor worship. The myths about heaven and hell are figurative allegories and the Old Testament actually uses this same language often as it's what the Hebrews also believed. The story of Hercules and the Epic of Gilgamesh are prime examples.

Here is the meaning (and this could apply to the soul that is alive or dead, doesn't matter):
Your spirit lives in the mind of those know you. Take for instance your child: you are the brightest light in their lives---you are the Sun in their heaven.
Now take for instance the Nation or "culture": Are you known by all? If so, you are a "star" among the hosts of heaven and you influence many, this is what it means to be a living god in the ancient sense. Are you lower than dirt? despised by all? You are in hell. You can exist in heaven or hell during life and after life. You can die, and then be raised into the heavens after-death such as the case of saints, prophets, and war heroes... After you die, your spirit is either raised into a prominent position in your family, culture, etc., or your memory "fades into the dust", and once you're forgotten completely, you're in the underworld---the collective unconscious.
 

Suneses

New Member
Jun 4, 2018
14
8
3
60
Detroit
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Interesting GUANO

While you have brushed on some truths in your post most of what you wrote is based on philosophical conjecture.

As a workman of the word my liberties are limited to II Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The word rightly divide is translated from the one Greek word orthotomeō,

orthos means “perfectly right” or “perfectly straight” tomeō, means “to cut”. This word orthotomeō literally means “a perfectly right cutting”. Its intricate nuance of meaning is that there is only one way to rightly cut the Word, all other ways are wrong. This is realized by adhering to specific keys and principles of biblical research, which I would be happy to post if you were interested…..but you're probably not.

It is not up to us to interpret the Bible, draw our own conclusion or philosophies of what we think, but rather to rightly divide it…… in other words see how the Bible fits together and interprets itself………….. When we do that it removes all the guesswork, all the error, all the opinions and all the private interpretation out of it, which will leave us with an accurate rendering of the truth as God intended.
Truth by its very nature is singular. You cannot have two different meanings for one truth it would be a contradiction of terms. Truth is not adaptive to opinions nor is it flexible to feelings …it is absolute, what was truth yesterday, is truth today, and will be truth tomorrow; facts can change, but truth remains the same …..always
 

GUANO

Member
Jun 5, 2018
30
13
8
40
Pasadena, CA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Interesting GUANO
The word rightly divide is translated from the one Greek word orthotomeō,

orthos means “perfectly right” or “perfectly straight” tomeō, means “to cut”. This word orthotomeō literally means “a perfectly right cutting”. Its intricate nuance of meaning is that there is only one way to rightly cut the Word, all other ways are wrong. This is realized by adhering to specific keys and principles of biblical research, which I would be happy to post if you were interested…..but you're probably not.
"rightly divide", "cut"---where do you think this weighing, dividing, or cutting takes place? It starts with an "H" and ends with an "eaven".
 

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,275
3,091
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well, these guys at least:

At once I was caught up in spirit. A throne was there in heaven, and on the throne sat

one whose appearance sparkled like jasper and carnelian. Around the throne was a halo as brilliant as an emerald.

Surrounding the throne I saw twenty-four other thrones on which twenty-four elders sat, dressed in white garments and with gold crowns on their heads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth and Helen

larry2

Active Member
Jun 14, 2018
201
215
43
Arapahoe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is there any body in heaven
Hi twinc and blessings in Christ Jesus. Short answer is yes.

The thief in Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise.

Where did Jesus go that day?
Eph 4:9 Now that He (Jesus) ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Since Jesus must first descend, and the thief was to be with Him in paradise that day, paradise was in Abraham's bosom.

Where is paradise today?
Paul said in 2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Cor 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, . . (What is paradise doing in the third heaven now? Did Jesus possibly take paradise to heaven when He went to heaven? Eph 4:8.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (Isn't this a realistic hope for us?)
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Is there any body in heaven - twinc
Of course. Indeed it is crowded (with plenty of room left over).

How come you even ask?

1. God the Judge of All
2 Jesus the Mediator and Great High Priest
3. An innumerable company of angels (cannot be counted)
4. All the OT saints who have passed on
5. All the NT saints who have passed on
 
  • Like
Reactions: Philip James

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
"Heaven" generally isn't some place that anyone can physically "go".
TOTALLY, TOTALLY FALSE
"Paradise" is not "heaven", though this is where the common mix-up lies.
It is not Heaven per se but it is in Heaven without the shadow of a doubt.
The popular view of Heaven and Hades in Christianity is that of the pagan Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians, Assyrians, etc., and is primarily related to ancestor worship.
TOTAL NONSENSE
 

twinc

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2011
1,593
265
83
93
Faith
Country
United Kingdom
TOTALLY, TOTALLY FALSE

It is not Heaven per se but it is in Heaven without the shadow of a doubt.

TOTAL NONSENSE


as suspected and expected most seem to be all mixed up and confused and some even go so far as to attribute this to
inspiration and guidance from and by the Holy Spirit - this then is Christianity - sad is it not - twinc
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
as suspected and expected most seem to be all mixed up and confused ...
You failed to properly quote my post and produced a false impression.

Claiming that Heaven and Hades are pagan concepts, that Paradise is not in Heaven, and that there is no one in Heaven, is not only nonsensical but heretical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hidden In Him

Suneses

New Member
Jun 4, 2018
14
8
3
60
Detroit
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
rightly divide", "cut"---where do you think this weighing, dividing, or cutting takes place? It starts with an "H" and ends with an "eaven".


II Timothy 3:16 & 17

16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


The word perfect is the Greek word artios meaning completely fitted.
The words throughly furnished is the Greek word exartizō (which is a derivative of artios) and means to fit out, to prepare perfectly, to complete for a special purpose.

If you are waiting for H and ends with eaven ….for your spiritual direction... you're going to have a long wait.
God has already given us all things that pertain to life and godliness in the written Word….and fully equipped us.
I'm not saying God is limited to His Word but any other revelation/instruction will not contradict it.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Short answer ....NO ...with the exception of our Lord and Savior.
You forget that Enoch and Elijah entered Heaven a long time ago, and Stephen entered Heaven the minute he died on earth. But to suggest that Christ is the lone occupant of Heaven is to disregard the clear revelation of Scripture.

It is simply amazing that there are people who believe that Heaven -- God's Heaven -- is unoccupied when there are countless angels and saints in Heaven right now.
 
Last edited:

Suneses

New Member
Jun 4, 2018
14
8
3
60
Detroit
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You forget that Enoch and Elijah entered Heaven a long time ago, and Stephen entered Heaven the minute he died on earth. But to suggest that Christ is the lone occupant of Heaven is to disregard the clear revelation of Scripture.

It is simply amazing that there are people who believe that Heaven -- God's Heaven -- is unoccupied when there are countless angels and saints in Heaven right now.





As one who was raised a RC until about age 14 I am aware of the teachings that surround this subject ………I use to believe the same because that’s what I was taught.

Although I am sure that I am not going to change yours or anybody else’s thinking regarding this subject…. that is not my intent. I will point out what the Bible states and maybe, like myself when I learned the truth, you will make a new decision.

Angels – Yes there are a host of them in heaven….But saints (so named by the Church) friends, loved, ones, Old testament believers… New testament believers….. No

The Word of God does not support that teaching only religion teaches that.

Death sucks! And I would love to believe that my parents my brother my GF are all in heaven …that would be great… but it would be a lie. Our comfort is not in what we believe Our comfort is in what God‘s word states in I Thes 4:13-18

1Th 4:18 - Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Stephen –Acts 7:59 & 60

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.



When a believer dies his spirit goes back from whence it came. we have holy spirit (the gift) it goes back to God…soul life ceases and body goes back to dust.

It does not say Stephen went to heaven …it says it fell asleep (metaphorically) he died. He is awaiting the return of Christ like all others who have fallen asleep during this grace administration. Then they will be raised up and those who are alive will be gathered together in the air.

Enoch – Hebrews 11:5 (Genesis 5:21-24,)

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.


The word translated is the word transported or transferred …taken from one place to another. WHY: that he should not see death. Not speaking of his own death …Enoch had never seen anyone pass away.

The word see is the Greek word eidon = to look at with actual perception with one’s eyes …or literally to see someone die.

Enoch had never seen anyone die and because he pleased God all the time, God transferred him from one place to another so he would not see his loved ones die.

Enoch eventually died himself

Hebrews 11:13

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


Elijah – II Kings 2:9-18


Verse 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.


This phrase does not indicate that Elijah was taken to a place of everlasting life. The word heaven has several usages in the Bible. “The dew of heaven”, “the stars of heaven”, “the birds of heaven”……biblically heaven is anyplace in the sky’s above the earth.

Elijah was taken from the earth into the sky by a wind….that is…. he was moved from one place on earth to another. The other prophets understood this and wanted to go look for him. Elisha knew that God would have hidden Elijah …did not want them to look for him.


*Philip was also caught away in Acts 8:39,40a


John 3:13

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Angels – Yes there are a host of them in heaven….But saints (so named by the Church) friends, loved, ones, Old testament believers… New testament believers….. No
Since the New Jerusalem (the heavenly Jerusalem) is presently in Heaven, and God and Christ are in it, we also see countless saints and angels in Heaven.

And this is what Scripture reveals (Heb 12:22-24):

But ye are come
[PRESENT TENSE] unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,

the heavenly Jerusalem, [our eternal home revealed]
(1) and to an innumerable company of angels,
(2) To
the general assembly and church of the firstborn, [NT SAINTS]
which are written in heaven, and
(3) to God the Judge of all, and
(4) to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[OT SAINTS]
(5) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
(6) and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hidden In Him

Suneses

New Member
Jun 4, 2018
14
8
3
60
Detroit
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Since the New Jerusalem (the heavenly Jerusalem) is presently in Heaven, and God and Christ are in it, we also see countless saints and angels in Heaven.

And this is what Scripture reveals (Heb 12:22-24):

But ye are come
[PRESENT TENSE] unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,

the heavenly Jerusalem, [our eternal home revealed]
(1) and to an innumerable company of angels,
(2) To
the general assembly and church of the firstborn, [NT SAINTS]
which are written in heaven, and
(3) to God the Judge of all, and
(4) to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[OT SAINTS]
(5) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
(6) and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


What do you do with the scripture in the epistles (which are addressed directly to the Church of the body in this grace administration) that state that the dead are dead (asleep) until the return of Christ for the church of the body. …..

Did God contradict Himself?

If this is present tense as you stated (which it’s not ….because New Jerusalem does not take place until Revelation) then the Bible would have to contradict itself.

Keep in mind Hebrews was written to the Christian Jews of the dispersion and is not addressed to the church in the sense that we know the Church established on Pentecost. It is addressed to born again believers, but those who have never walked in the freedom of the new birth, those who are still zealous for the law.