Is Any Denomination Saved?

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Renniks

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Baptism conveys the Grace that it also signifies, thus remission of sins by dying with Christ and rising to new life in Him.
That isn't in the Bible. It's a man-made doctrine. Plenty of people in the Bible were saved without baptism.
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,"

"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

In Acts 10 people were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit. You want to claim baptism saved them?
 

Renniks

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Said no apostolic community ever. Whom to belive, you, or the teaching of the Church for 2000 years...
How can the Eucharist save anyone? The people Jesus told this to had not been given any instructions about the Eucharist. Were they to understand what no one taught them? No, they came to him for perishable food and he told them he was the food that would bring them eternal life. Belief in him was the food they needed to partake of.
 

Truther

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How did they skip Acts 2:38? I do not see how they did when they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead.



Since those whom had never believed in Him or even in His name are already condemned, I'd say yeah.. after they die, they are in hell.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
They skipped Acts 2:38 by not being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Also, very few of them have received the Holy Ghost.
Also, babies are not repenting before being baptized.
 

Jane_Doe22

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That isn't in the Bible. It's a man-made doctrine. Plenty of people in the Bible were saved without baptism.
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,"

"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

In Acts 10 people were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit. You want to claim baptism saved them?
How can the Eucharist save anyone? The people Jesus told this to had not been given any instructions about the Eucharist. Were they to understand what no one taught them? No, they came to him for perishable food and he told them he was the food that would bring them eternal life. Belief in him was the food they needed to partake of.

Renniks, what do you claim saves a person?
Is it their beliefs on baptism?
Is it their beliefs on the Lord's Supper?
 

Truther

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Renniks, what do you claim saves a person?
Is it their beliefs on baptism?
Is it their beliefs on the Lord's Supper?
The Holy Ghost remits sins?

Peter got Acts 2:38 backwards?

Golly.
 

Enow

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FYI: "Mormons" don't equate speaking in tongues to being babbling intelligibly. Rather, LDS Christians view the gift of tongues being the ability to speak in a language people do understand, particularly to help preach the Gospel. A missionary being better able to pick up Chinese to preach in China being an example.

Thank you for sharing.

I did not do the research, however, Joseph Smith had reported such false tongues among the assembly.

Mormon Q and A: Do Mormons Speak in Tongues

"We have also had brethren and sisters who have had the gift of tongues falsely; they would speak in a muttering, unnatural voice, and their bodies be distorted … ; whereas, there is nothing unnatural in the Spirit of God. (See History of the Church, 4:580; punctuation modernized; from “Try the Spirits,” an editorial published in Times and Seasons, Apr. 1, 1842, p. 747; Joseph Smith was the editor of the periodical.)"

"Speak not in the gift of tongues without understanding it, or without interpretation. The devil can speak in tongues; the adversary will come with his work; he can tempt all classes; can speak in English or Dutch. Let no one speak in tongues unless he interpret, except by the consent of the one who is placed to preside; then he may discern or interpret, or another may. (See History of the Church, 3:392; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith about July 1839 in Commerce, Illinois; reported by Willard Richards.)"

Although instructed, it stands to reason why that researcher found what he did because not all Mormons heeded such instructions.

However, I am of the mindset that because Joseph Smith did prophesy falsely and Mormonism does come off as another gospel, I am less incline to believe they actually had the gift of tongues with interpretation because Joseph Smith nor the church was reproved of what is not of Him.

Same with the Charismatic Catholic Church. It just doesn't align with what the indwelling Holy Spirit would not have left undone.

I have heard the report like this guy, but he did say the " "Spirit" so strong in that room " which is testifying to the presence in the room rather than in himself ( 1 John 4:1-6 ) which by this test is the spirit of the antichrist, and the fact that he is bearing witness of himself cannot be considered a true witness but a false witness. ( John 5:31 & John 7:18 )


I have heard of a church that has thought they had God's gift of tongues as it was being interpreted; then they hired a linguist to tape it all and translate it, but it all came back as gibberish nonsense. Joyce Meyers said how she interpret tongues is by getting the feel or the gist of what is being said is how she interprets tongues. It is no wonder why that other church thought they had the gift of tongues if members in there had thought as Joyce Meyers had thought on how to interpret tongues.

Now Joseph Smith may have spoken some truths about speaking in tongues and have given instructions for its use, but that doesn't necessarily mean all Mormons followed it, let alone make sure that they were speaking in tongues and not winging the interpretation either. It probably why even Joseph Smith had caught some using what he says is "fake tongues".

At any rate, no one should be swooning over any person or church claiming to speak in tongues when the focus and the spotlight should be on preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified and nothing else in His name for why we are all to prove all things & abstain from all appearances of evil.
 

Philip James

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That isn't in the Bible. It's a man-made doctrine.

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

- St Paul

And of course the very verse you quoted says 'by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,"
 

Philip James

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In Acts 10 people were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit. You want to claim baptism saved them?

This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

- St. Peter
 

Enow

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We are indeed ALL called to repentance from our false ideas / sins / habits /etc.

Relying on Jesus Christ, Our Good Shepherd, to help us do that.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

Being His disciples mean to testify of the Son in seeking His glory, not of a church nor another man nor even ourselves.

1 Corinthians 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.... 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment....18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe...... 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:...
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
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Philip James

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How can the Eucharist save anyone?


Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

The people Jesus told this to had not been given any instructions about the Eucharist. Were they to understand what no one taught them? No, they came to him for perishable food and he told them he was the food that would bring them eternal life. Belief in him was the food they needed to partake of.

Indeed belief in Him is required. To believe in Him is to accept His words are True. Thus the apostles (who surely were confused by this discourse as well) remain with Him and learn at the last supper just how Jesus will give them His body and blood ...

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 
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Enoch111

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How silly
The hat on your avatar's head or the slogan which goes with it? Did you know that the only suitable hats for *good Catholic* Pelosi, and *good Jewish* Schiff and Nadler would now be dunce caps?
upload_2020-2-15_13-2-34.png

Getting back to the title of the thread, it borders on duncism.
 

Enow

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They skipped Acts 2:38 by not being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Also, very few of them have received the Holy Ghost.

I don't think all Catholics are from Jewish backgrounds, brother, for you to apply that to them.

Look at how the Gentiles were saved; as in before they were water baptized, before they came forward to confess Him with their mouths, they believed the words of Peter and had received the promise of the Holy Spirit for believing and thus were saved.

Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Also, babies are not repenting before being baptized.

I do not believe infant baptism is supported by scripture either.

However, we should look at scripture denying water baptism as a means for salvation. Paul declares this;

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

That power of God in salvation simply by believing in Him was evident by how the Gentiles were saved in Acts 10:40-48

Peter says the same thing although many misread his words otherwise, because of verse 20.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Water is used to putting away the filth of the flesh so Peter was speaking against water baptism here in how we are saved. Then he goes on to say it is the answer of a good conscience toward God which is to believe in Him by the resurrection of Jesus Christ is how we are saved.

Then people misuse Mark 16:16 by only thinking of water baptism instead f the baptism with the Holy Ghost that the father sends at our salvation.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Since it is by not believing is how they are damned, then water baptism does not play a role.

However it is an ordinance for new believers to follow in being His disciples. And that is not all a church is supposed to do with that discipleship either. They are to be taught in the word to be rooted in the word so they may grown in the knowledge of Him and rest in His promises that He will help them to follow Him by laying aside every weight & sin, proving all things by Him to abstain from all appearances of evil in being witnesses of Him in the world.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Thank you for sharing.

I did not do the research, however, Joseph Smith had reported such false tongues among the assembly.

Mormon Q and A: Do Mormons Speak in Tongues

"We have also had brethren and sisters who have had the gift of tongues falsely; they would speak in a muttering, unnatural voice, and their bodies be distorted … ; whereas, there is nothing unnatural in the Spirit of God. (See History of the Church, 4:580; punctuation modernized; from “Try the Spirits,” an editorial published in Times and Seasons, Apr. 1, 1842, p. 747; Joseph Smith was the editor of the periodical.)"

"Speak not in the gift of tongues without understanding it, or without interpretation. The devil can speak in tongues; the adversary will come with his work; he can tempt all classes; can speak in English or Dutch. Let no one speak in tongues unless he interpret, except by the consent of the one who is placed to preside; then he may discern or interpret, or another may. (See History of the Church, 3:392; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith about July 1839 in Commerce, Illinois; reported by Willard Richards.)"

Although instructed, it stands to reason why that researcher found what he did because not all Mormons heeded such instructions.

However, I am of the mindset that because Joseph Smith did prophesy falsely and Mormonism does come off as another gospel, I am less incline to believe they actually had the gift of tongues with interpretation because Joseph Smith nor the church was reproved of what is not of Him.

Same with the Charismatic Catholic Church. It just doesn't align with what the indwelling Holy Spirit would not have left undone.

I have heard the report like this guy, but he did say the " "Spirit" so strong in that room " which is testifying to the presence in the room rather than in himself ( 1 John 4:1-6 ) which by this test is the spirit of the antichrist, and the fact that he is bearing witness of himself cannot be considered a true witness but a false witness. ( John 5:31 & John 7:18 )


I have heard of a church that has thought they had God's gift of tongues as it was being interpreted; then they hired a linguist to tape it all and translate it, but it all came back as gibberish nonsense. Joyce Meyers said how she interpret tongues is by getting the feel or the gist of what is being said is how she interprets tongues. It is no wonder why that other church thought they had the gift of tongues if members in there had thought as Joyce Meyers had thought on how to interpret tongues.

Now Joseph Smith may have spoken some truths about speaking in tongues and have given instructions for its use, but that doesn't necessarily mean all Mormons followed it, let alone make sure that they were speaking in tongues and not winging the interpretation either. It probably why even Joseph Smith had caught some using what he says is "fake tongues".

At any rate, no one should be swooning over any person or church claiming to speak in tongues when the focus and the spotlight should be on preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified and nothing else in His name for why we are all to prove all things & abstain from all appearances of evil.
These quotes literally echo what I said: that LDS Christians believe that the gift of speaking in tongues is for being able to talk to people, particularly to share the Gospel. It's not something to be random babbling or entertainment.

FYI: I am a "Mormon". Been practicing and researching things for decades. I totally acknowledge that you have different views and I ain't going to lift a finger to change that (I consider such to be disrespectful). But I do like clarifying what I and other folks actually believe. And it ain't a party with people babbling and shouting nonsensical stuff.
 

Renniks

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Renniks, what do you claim saves a person?
Is it their beliefs on baptism?
Is it their beliefs on the Lord's Supper?
God saves. The condition for salvation is faith in Jesus as our savior/ Messiah/ Redeemer and King. Nothing needs to be added.
 

Giuliano

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I had trouble following most of your post.
But I've listened to enough Catholic radio to know that they consider the sacraments necessary for salvation. That's unbiblical.
I wonder why the Pope is not married if Catholics think "the sacraments" are necessary for salvation. . . .
 

Giuliano

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God saves. The condition for salvation is faith in Jesus as our savior/ Messiah/ Redeemer and King. Nothing needs to be added.
No repentance? No obedience? Let's not be silly and say we have faith in Jesus and then not be willing to do as he commanded us. That's a make-believe kind of faith.
 
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Renniks

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You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
- St Paul

And of course the very verse you quoted says 'by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,"
By the washing of regeneration,
and renewing of the Holy Ghost; by the former is meant, not the ordinance of water baptism; for that is never expressed by washing, nor is it the cause or means of regeneration; the cause being the Spirit of God, and the means the word of God: and besides, persons ought to be regenerated before they are baptized; and they may be baptized, and yet not regenerated, as Simon Magus; nor is it a saving ordinance, or a point of salvation; nor can it be opposed to works of righteousness, as this washing is; for that itself is a work of righteousness; see ( Matthew 3:15 ) and if persons were saved by that, they would be saved by a work of righteousness, contrary to the text itself.
 

Renniks

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This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

- St. Peter
Exactly, the water does nothing. It's the appeal to God that is required and through Christ's resurrection that we are saved.
 

Giuliano

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How can the Eucharist save anyone? The people Jesus told this to had not been given any instructions about the Eucharist. Were they to understand what no one taught them? No, they came to him for perishable food and he told them he was the food that would bring them eternal life. Belief in him was the food they needed to partake of.
The same curse that brought death to man in this world also brought the curse on vegetation. I believe Jesus can remove that curse of thorns and thistles from plant life, and I also believe when people eat and drink properly consecrated Bread and Wine, it is helping remove the curse of death in the believers.

If any man cannot believe God can change the bread and wine into Bread and Wine, can he believe God can change his corruptible body into the incorruptible?
 
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Renniks

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Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.



Indeed belief in Him is required. To believe in Him is to accept His words are True. Thus the apostles (who surely were confused by this discourse as well) remain with Him and learn at the last supper just how Jesus will give them His body and blood ...

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to in the one he has sent.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
Not works. Belief alone saves.