Are Christians Sinners?

[April_Rose]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

 

[Zadok]

Yup, "the wages of sin is death" (Rm 6:23), christians are dying to beat-the-band as much as non-christian's.
Makes you wonder what they are 'saved' from, doesn't it.

 

[April_Rose]

Makes you wonder what they are 'saved' from, doesn't it.

No it doesn't. Christians are saved from Hell no matter how many or what kinds of sins that they commit. It doesn't excuse them, but Jesus still paid the penalty for them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

Good point. Words mean what they mean *in context.* So, in one context we can call evil people "sinners," who practice sin on a regular basis. But in another context we may call practicing Christians "sinners" even though they don't regularly practice sin.

The Christian may do one or more big sins, and be called a "sinner," or they may simply live imperfect lives, as we all do, and be called "sinners." It really depends on the context.

Traditional Christianity calls for the Christian to avoid heinous sins, and to live a life of prayer, praise, and endurance in love. When we fall short we would call ourselves "sinners," but only with the understanding that we can get back up, brush ourselves off, and start again. God's love doesn't end when we sin.

 

[Zadok]

No it doesn't. Christians are saved from Hell no matter how many or what kinds of sins that they commit. It doesn't excuse them, but Jesus still paid the penalty for them.

You skipped over the fact that christians are dying all the time, because the "wages of sin is death"

Are they free from Hell?
Show me the scripture you're referring to.

Here is the BIG ONE that christians hate to be asked -
Are you inside of outside the gates of hell?, that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16:18.

 

[April_Rose]

You skipped over the fact that christians are dying all the time, because the "wages of sin is death"

Are they free from Hell?
Show me the scripture you're referring to.

Here is the BIG ONE that christians hate to be asked -
Are you inside of outside the gates of hell?, that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16:18.

Sorry, I'm afraid that I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Zadok]

Sorry, I'm afraid that I don't know what you're talkinsg about.

you mentioned christians are free from hell, I'm wondering what scripture you are using to support your assertion.
Just one will do, as a foundation for understanding.

 

[April_Rose]

you mentioned christians are free from hell, I'm wondering what scripture you are using to support your assertion.
Just one will do, as a foundation for understanding.

This one. John 3:16.

 

[Zadok]

This one. John 3:16.

Oh, that one?
Where is the word 'hell' in there?
Christians are perishing all the time. I don't know any immortals yet, that have eternal life.

 

[Sabertooth]

Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

When a murderer truly repents, God forgives them [see 1 Kings 21].

In most cases, they still have consequences down here. Most murderers must still go to prison, even if they are forgiven in God's sight. So even though we can get right with God, sin still has consequences that are better to avoid, if at all possible.

 

[April_Rose]

Oh, that one?
Where is the word 'hell' in there?
Christians are perishing all the time. I don't know any immortals yet, that have eternal life.

Are you for real right now or are you just trolling? Sorry, I can't always tell.

 

[April_Rose]

When a murderer truly repents, God forgives them [see 1 Kings 21].

In most cases, they still have consequences down here. Most murderers must still go to prison, even if they are forgiven in God's sight. So even though we can get right with God, sin still has consequences that are better to avoid, if at all possible.

Agreed, and I see where you're coming from.

 

[Zadok]

Are you for real right now or are you just trolling? Sorry, I can't always tell.

Are my scripture-based questions making you uncomfortable?

 

[dev553344]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

This is the best scripture I found that describes this problem of them that think they are righteous or justified:

Luke 18:9-14

New King James Version

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

From what I can determine, the Bible leads me to the below conclusions about your good post.

I will do things that are wrong, but True Christians who have turned to Christ for His Holy Operation of Faith, these people will have had their Heart Spiritually Circumcised of evil influence, and are also released from worldly Laws written upon stone, or paper. Paul taught that through Christ, people are free from the Law, and where there is no Law, it is impossible to break or violate it. This is how one becomes freed from the Law . . . by the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.

So will I do things that are wrongful? Yes. But wrongful against what? If there is no Law to break, then against [what] am I able to determine that I am wrongful? Our wrongfulness is absorbed by Christ as a one-time, final sacrifice for all sin. So through this Work of Christ, people are made absolutely, totally, and utterly Pure. Anyone with a Circumcised Heart is capable of entering into the innermost Sanctuary of God. For through the Work of Christ, we have been united with God Himself.

 

[Zadok]

From what I can determine, the Bible leads me to the below conclusions about your good post.

I will do things that are wrong, but True Christians who have turned to Christ for His Holy Operation of Faith, these people will have had their Heart Spiritually Circumcised of evil influence, and are also released from worldly Laws written upon stone, or paper. Paul taught that through Christ, people are free from the Law, and where there is no Law, it is impossible to break or violate it. This is how one becomes freed from the Law . . . by the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.

So will I do things that are wrongful? Yes. But wrongful against what? If there is no Law to break, then against [what] am I able to determine that I am wrongful? Our wrongfulness is absorbed by Christ as a one-time, final sacrifice for all sin. So through this Work of Christ, people are made absolutely, totally, and utterly Pure. Anyone with a Circumcised Heart is capable of entering into the innermost Sanctuary of God. For through the Work of Christ, we have been united with God Himself.

Yet, no one has yet entered the Innermost, because no one yet has kept "the law of the spirit of life" (Romans 8:2):
What Colossians 2: 9-15 is to you, all of Romans 8 is to me, it has it all, even Universalism in vs 21:
ROMANS CHAPTER 8 KJV

 

[April_Rose]

Are my scripture-based questions making you uncomfortable?

The scripture that you are showing me has nothing to do with my question.

From what I can determine, the Bible leads me to the below conclusions about your good post.

I will do things that are wrong, but True Christians who have turned to Christ for His Holy Operation of Faith, these people will have had their Heart Spiritually Circumcised of evil influence, and are also released from worldly Laws written upon stone, or paper. Paul taught that through Christ, people are free from the Law, and where there is no Law, it is impossible to break or violate it. This is how one becomes freed from the Law . . . by the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.

So will I do things that are wrongful? Yes. But wrongful against what? If there is no Law to break, then against [what] am I able to determine that I am wrongful? Our wrongfulness is absorbed by Christ as a one-time, final sacrifice for all sin. So through this Work of Christ, people are made absolutely, totally, and utterly Pure. Anyone with a Circumcised Heart is capable of entering into the innermost Sanctuary of God. For through the Work of Christ, we have been united with God Himself.

Please don't take offense to this but you are the ones confusing me. We might not be held accountable to God's law but shouldn't we still be expected to follow it?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Yet, no one has yet entered the Innermost, because no one yet has kept "the law of the spirit of life" (Romans 8:2):
What Colossians 2: 9-15 is to you, all of Romans 8 is to me, it has it all, even Universalism in vs 21:
ROMANS CHAPTER 8 KJV

Colossians 2:9-15 and Romans 8 explain and enhance one another, for sure.


Highlights of Romans 8 (for those interested - any translation will do):

KJV - "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

NLT - "The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit."

NLT - "And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God."

NLT - "For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God's children. And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God's glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering."

NLT - "Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

NLT - "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory."

NLT - "Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself. Who then will condemn us? No one--for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God's right hand, pleading for us."

 

[Zadok]

Colossians 2:9-15 and Romans 8 explain and enhance one another, for sure.


Highlights of Romans 8 (for those interested - any translation will do):

KJV - "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

NLT - "The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit."

NLT - "And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God."

NLT - "For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God's children. And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God's glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering."

NLT - "Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

NLT - "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory."

NLT - "Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself. Who then will condemn us? No one--for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God's right hand, pleading for us."

The law of the spirit of life only works if you enact it, by not living after the flesh - Romans 8:13 is where massive cognitive dissonance sets in.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Please don't take offense to this but you are the ones confusing me. We might not be held accountable to God's law but shouldn't we still be expected to follow it?

Absolutely! True Christians live by the Laws of the Spirit of Life. These are Laws that are placed within us, Laws that replace the Curse of Adam and Eve that has beset us all. It is these Laws that are spoken of in Ezekiel 11 and 36, Laws that are placed within us through the Circumcision of Heart that only Christ provides.

Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

The Human Nature is that of a Servant, so when the Curse of the Sinful Nature is cut out and removed, the Human Nature is happy to serve the new Divine Nature that has replaced the Sinful Nature.

2 Peter 1:4 KJV - "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

I have found that knowing the definition of the Human Nature is key to understanding the Mysterious Plan of God.