Are we divine ???

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APAK

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We are called God’s own people….

(1Pe 2:9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (ESV)

(1Pe 2:9) But you are his chosen people, the King's priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light.(ERV)


Peter says that believers use the divine nature of God - his power and knowledge.

(2Pe 1:3) His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

(2Pe 1:4) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (ALL ESV)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

What say you?

Bless you,

APAK
 

bbyrd009

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i've even seen the argument taken as far as "we are divine from birth" Scripturally, ya.
Lots of support for this concept, UR is built on it, etc
 
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APAK

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i've even seen the argument taken as far as "we are divine from birth" Scripturally, ya.
Lots of support for this concept, UR is built on it, etc

This thread also serves to think beyond it, into/about the future of our 'spiritual' connection or nature to Jesus and the Father in the heavens after our 'complete' transformation. It has to flow logically and in harmony with scripture.

Thanks for the input

APAK
 

bbyrd009

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It has to flow logically and in harmony with scripture.
well, this ends up being a pretty loaded phrase, right, i mean the UR ppl would insist that their doctrine flows logically from Scripture too, even though they really mean "the Scripture we choose to acknowledge" i guess
 

GodsGrace

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You need a definition for divine.
With no definition, the answer would be no.
We are not God and we are not like God.
And we will not be spiritually complete on this Earth.
1 John 1:8-10
John said we sin.
God does not sin.
 
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bbyrd009

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in the heavens after our 'complete' transformation.
i'm not sure what definitions of "in the heavens" or "after our 'complete' transformation" we are using here, iow i'm not sure where the first one occurs nor when the second one occurs in your lexicon, so this might be clarified first
 
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bbyrd009

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You need a definition for divine.
With no definition, the answer would be no.
We are not God and we are not like God.
And we will not be spiritually complete on this Earth.
1 John 1:8-10
John said we sin.
God does not sin.
oh, i wouldn't be too quick there, God expressed remorse, etc, for actions He did, right

"And we will not be spiritually complete on this Earth."
what? what do you mean here?

"We are not God and we are not like God."
(they have become like Us,...)
 

APAK

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i'm not sure what definitions of "in the heavens" or "after our 'complete' transformation" we are using here, iow i'm not sure where the first one occurs nor when the second one occurs in your lexicon, so this might be clarified first
Yea the lexicon...'complete transformation' is akin to when we are in our gloried bodies.

In 'the heavens' is give to provide some leeway that there is not necessarily one place/space called 'heaven.' With 'heaven,' there many be 'layers' or levels of heavens....viola..'the heavens'

APAK
 

APAK

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You need a definition for divine.
With no definition, the answer would be no.
We are not God and we are not like God.
And we will not be spiritually complete on this Earth.
1 John 1:8-10
John said we sin.
God does not sin.

GodsGrace:
Well the reason why I deliberately did not define 'divine,' no snobbery intended, is for folks to think and form their own definition, hopefully using scripture.. and then support their rationales ....arguments..etc.

For example most would agree we have a human nature and so did Jesus while on earth.....then the thought process develops..I hope...
Just because we have a human nature and capable of sin, as a believer, it is 'covered' in the eyes of God.....

Note: Having a human nature does not disqualify us from being say 'divine'....that is one argument

Bless you,

APAK
 

Helen

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So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

What say you?

Bless you,

APAK

I've only read the OP so will read the rest after I post here.
( then I don't cheat on someone's divine wisdom. :D)

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?
No I don't think so. And I am a bit "iffy" using the word divine. It's a bit too RCC for me. ( no offence to BOL )
Divine nature I can say yes to. At new birth we move positionally from the nature of Adam to the nature of Christ.

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

NO...He laid it down to come here as a man, just as the first Adam was. Yes Jesus too,moved in the Fathers divine nature.

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?
No, not of ourselves. We live and move and have our being "in Him"

If not, then do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?
Yes we do "use" live in the same Spirit as Christ.

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?
Now I am getting confused in the questions..they are too alike! :)

What say you? I have 'done said it'. lol

Now I will read the other posts.
 
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Helen

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i've even seen the argument taken as far as "we are divine from birth" Scripturally, ya.

Lots of support for this concept, UR is built on it, etc

Can't agree there...because I don't think we are divine. ( you may be. :) )
I believe we are saved...but I'm not sure about this divine word...it sounds a bit mystic for me.
No Christian can go around saying " I'm divine"..because we aren't ....and as you know, I am a dyed in the wool UR and I've never heard this, for sure not a 'foundational' concept . :)
 

Helen

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well, this ends up being a pretty loaded phrase, right, i mean the UR ppl would insist that their doctrine flows logically from Scripture too, even though they really mean "the Scripture we choose to acknowledge" i guess

I have to disagree again ( fun isn't it lol )

UR is far from being built on logic. o_O
But I do agree when you say " the scripture that we knowledge"

There are some scripture I have put up high "on my shelf", because they don't sync with other scriptures... when I find a contradiction, I shelve it...I never throw anything out...but I often doubt the translation that was put on what God said..and what the translator heard.
If people prayed more and more importantly waited and listened to the Lord... they would in time get in sync with Fathers heart. (Not man's interpretation of it. )

Many hugs ...H :D
 
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Helen

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( saved)
for that matter try and Quote it as a perfect preposition; you can't.
They are all "future" right

You are posting faster than I can read the thread...I just this moment finished the one above!!

I agree the revelation of "being saved" is future, at the end...but not the fact of, that is now...why, because in the word He says so..over and over...

It's time you started agreeing with God.... and me. Ha!! :)
 
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GodsGrace

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You are posting faster than I can read the thread...I just this moment finished the one above!!

I agree the revelation of "being saved" is future, at the end...but not the fact of, that is now...why, because in the word He says so..over and over...

It's time you started agreeing with God.... and me. Ha!! :)
Jesus said we must be born again.
He meant now.
John 3:3
 
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bbyrd009

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Can't agree there...because I don't think we are divine. ( you may be. :) )
I believe we are saved...but I'm not sure about this divine word...it sounds a bit mystic for me.
No Christian can go around saying " I'm divine"..because we aren't ....and as you know, I am a dyed in the wool UR and I've never heard this, for sure not a 'foundational' concept . :)
"
Time and again the Bible urges its readers to focus only on that which is real, on "That Which Is", and steer clear from mumbo-jumbo, superstitions and nonsense. To the modern world Yahwism may seem like just another religion but to the ancients it wasn't. The Jews were known as the people without a god (meaning without an effigy) and it appears that Christians in the Roman empire may have been accused of atheism (again meaning without a visible deity; see Cassius Dio 67.14).

Even though the name YHWH is etymologically difficult to explain, to a Hebrew audience it may have looked very much like He Who Causes "That Which Is" To Be.

The brilliance of Yahwism

Yahwism, therefore, can be most aptly viewed as a kind of proto-science; it's the syntax of science and focused on reality first and foremost. And no, Yahwism is not a religion that appeared to work really well; it's the syntax of science that worked really well which received the name Yahwism. Where the vast majority of pagan religions venerate society's stratification, Yahwism emphasizes the importance of the individual (hence the idea of YHWH's Christ being Jesus of Nazareth; the quintessential Average Joe). Pagan religion wants blind obedience; Yahwism wants insight and responsibility. Pagan religion wants a reverential and essential gap between the holy and the profane; Yahwism dictates that God wants to fellowship with mankind — and just pause to dwell on that for a bit.

There are over a hundred references in the Old Testament alone of the Lord stating that He will or wants to be with us (Genesis 26:3, Exodus 3:12, 1 Chronicles 28:20, Isaiah 53:5, Job 29:5), and although we moderns are probably used to that idea, there is nothing like this to be found in any of the cultures that surrounded Israel during Biblical times. The name Immanuel expresses purely a Yahwistic concept (Isaiah 7:14), as obviously does the Word of the Lord becoming flesh, dwelling among us (John 1:14), and appointing disciples "that they might be with Him" (Mark 3:14)." The amazing name YHWH: meaning and etymology

there were some other, more pertinent observations in here somewhere (to get "us" to "divine" iow) but those may be in one of these two,
"Also have a look at our articles on the Greek word πιστις (pistis), meaning "faith" and the word θεος (theos), meaning God." as i have recently read both

and we should also reflect upon you shall be like gods i guess

@aspen "Yahwists" were an early sect of Christians, by many accounts anyway
 
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APAK

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Can't agree there...because I don't think we are divine. ( you may be. :) )
I believe we are saved...but I'm not sure about this divine word...it sounds a bit mystic for me.
No Christian can go around saying " I'm divine"..because we aren't ....and as you know, I am a dyed in the wool UR and I've never heard this, for sure not a 'foundational' concept . :)

ByGrace:
So, when we are in our gloried bodies won’t we continue and use (partake of the spirit of God - divine nature) to be with /communicate with Christ and he the same with us? We must communicate somehow, right? It won’t be by mouth, because neither Christ or us with use one to speak and nourish ourselves, right?

You thoughts..?

Bless you,

APAK
 

Helen

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ByGrace:
So, when we are in our gloried bodies won’t we continue and use (partake of the spirit of God - divine nature)

As I see it, Yes we will.., but that will be then...it will be post "marriage supper of the Lamb" ..it will be post being "made One"..."and God being all and in all"

This is now...now we have the Holy Spirit :- “Which is the earnest of (= guarantee) our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.” Eph 1:14

That is how I read it. :)
 

APAK

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As I see it, Yes we will.., but that will be then...it will be post "marriage supper of the Lamb" ..it will be post being "made One"..."and God being all and in all"

This is now...now we have the Holy Spirit :- “Which is the earnest of (= guarantee) our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.” Eph 1:14

That is how I read it. :)

Sure..I was just making the connection that THE HOLY SPIRIT that we have TODAY or as you said NOW, will be the same spirit we will use in the heavens with Christ and the angels. God will be all in all...the spirit of God permeates the heavens..... nothing changes in the sense of the divine nature....it will be magnified for us in our glorified bodies and we lose our earthly human nature.

Bless you,

APAK
 
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Dcopymope

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We are called God’s own people….

(1Pe 2:9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (ESV)

(1Pe 2:9) But you are his chosen people, the King's priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light.(ERV)


Peter says that believers use the divine nature of God - his power and knowledge.

(2Pe 1:3) His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

(2Pe 1:4) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (ALL ESV)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, does that make us divine from rebirth?

On earth, did not Jesus ‘use’ the same divinity of his Father from birth?

If so, then are we not ‘as’ divine as Jesus, when he was born?

If not, they do we have and use a different spirit than Christ?

Or is it the same one that Jesus used yesterday and today – that of the Father’s spirit?

What say you?

Bless you,

APAK

How does the above scriptures you cited as 'proof' of our divinity line up with this scripture?

(Isaiah 43:10-11) "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. {11} I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

Do you think this statement will magically become null and void once we are 'transformed'? Scripture gives no indication that it will, nor has it ever been the case today or 'in the beginning' in heaven or earth. If the creation was ever as divine as God, then God wouldn't have had anything to be concerned about to begin with and he wouldn't need to send his son to atone for our sins. The transformation is not a mystery. Its all about transforming this current body into that similar to an angel, making us immortal. It will not nor will it ever make you sinless. What makes the creation sinless is Jesus Christ and him alone. Your spirit allegedly being "divine" now or in the future will have jack spit to do with it. The 'transformation' will have jack spit to do with it.