Ask Yourself: What Will You Do?

[Hidden In Him]

Greetings All.

I was meditating on this today, and realized it's a question the entire body of Christ really ought to be asking themselves now, given what is coming.

So stop and consider for a moment: What choice would you make if in fifteen or so years from now the governments of the free world began declaring that any Christian ministry that proclaimed homosexuality to be a sin was to be shut down, and those involved would potentially face jail time and/or the loss of their children, who would be confiscated by the State and handed over to child custody?

What would you do. Would you,
A. Recant and publicly proclaim homosexual marriage to be ordained of God
B. Continue proclaiming homosexuality to be a sin and face incrimination, or
C. Stop commenting on the issue to avoid prosecution, but without recanting

My wife shared with me a couple of dreams today related to this, and she makes the sixth person now who has shared dreams suggesting it is going to happen. As for when it may take place, the answer is implied in a dream I received from another sister several weeks ago, which I interpreted just yesterday.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

- "Dream 1:
I had a similar dream the other night, but couldn't remember it enough to really put it together. The only thing I remember of this dream the other night was may daughter's first steps instructor (speech therapist) was driving and got out of the car and opened the door for me to get out on the sidewalk with her.

For this dream, she invited me to a Birthday party for a vocal singer I have always admired and was the first winner of American Idol, Kelly Clarkson. So my hubby brought me, and I was just livid. I was so excited and she was super nice. But she was clearly against President Trump and ranting liberally against him in my dream. I was disappointed about that.

Interpretation:
These dreams are time-stamped, based on the following: You are here represented as your daughter, and these things will take place during a time when she is about the age you were when you first started taking "first steps" in ministry, as indicated by the woman in a "car" letting you out to walk on the sidewalk, i.e. to "walk." Since you said you were 18 when you started ministry training, it means roughly 16 1/2 years from now. The dream suggests that when this time comes, "singers" will be ranting against conservative values and conservative political leaders, more specifically those who stand against homosexual marriage, which is something Kelley Clarkson has championed since the beginning of her career:
Kelly Clarkson to Homophobic Twitter User: 'Love Shared Between Two People Should Be Praised' | Billboard
Kelly Clarkson stands up for gay couple, completely shuts down hater

Note, however, that "singers" here is likely not literal but a metaphor for those who have "a voice" in public. You represent Christians who will likewise have a "voice" in the matter, but are speaking out against homosexual sin rather than endorsing it, as the next dream suggests.

- "Dream 2: We were on a long trip and were visiting a small country town in Colorado where I was supposed to sing as a special guest. There was a white church with a steeple and a house next door with a fenced in yard. There were mountains in the background on the road, and my husband and I were meeting at the house by the church. There was a Native American in the fenced in yard and they had just moved there to Colorado and was very upset about the sermons he was hearing the Catholic Church preach over the phone. When he came inside where we were, it was set up like a church, even though the church was next door. So then I heard the pastor on the phone preaching on speaker, and the Native American was just walking around with it upset. There were a few changes to scripture I noticed the Catholic preacher was saying, but one was with Luke 5:32 or one of the similar verses. 'For I have not come to call the righteous to repentance, but the hypocrites (instead of sinners).'"

Interpretation:
- The house is a smaller church, likely a house church associated with a larger church proper, that still holds to conservative values. That it has a fenced in yard means it will be guarded, with Conservative churches being more cautious about who they let in by this time. The Catholic Church, having recanted and endorsed homosexual marriage by this time, will be retranslating or rephrasing passages so that those who endorse homosexuality are righteous and those who condemn it are "hypocrites," speaking out about homosexuality when they are themselves engaging in sexual sin. Thus the Catholic Church in the US will be citing "scripture" to teach that homosexuality is not actually a sin, and that it is those who are still calling homosexuals to repentance who are actually sinning because they are "hypocrites."

- But then I didn't get to sing. That was disappointing. The service ended without anyone even preaching at the house. To me, it looked sort of like a United Methodist Church. Because everyone was dressed up really nice, except the Native American that didn't even have a shirt on. It is like he was walking around listening to that Catholic church on the radio really disappointed, and then the service ended. But this group of people were talking about how the car we were supposed to use to get home was broke down, and we weren't going to be able to use that. The man took us into a house across the parking lot from the house with the church next door. It had a living room/bedroom, etc. Kids and infants. There were two women on the couch I didn't know and they both had unclean spirits. I cannot remember what they were saying, but I was rebuking the unclean spirits in Jesus name. One was delivered and one was not. I didn't get the feeling that [the church I saw in the first part of the dream] was the Catholic church the Native American was listening to over the phone. But I did have the feeling the house across the street with the possessed people were part of the Catholic church. There was also a child down the hall who was about to be depossessed.

Interpretation:
The United Methodist Church may be literal here, or it represents some other nominal Protestant church - a respectable church, as indicated by the fine dress. But that is what will cause the service to be canceled without anyone preaching. They will likely be too worried about their respectable place in society, and when the Catholic Church turns to calling opponents of the homosexual lifestyle "hypocrites," they will stop proclaiming the truth to avoid being viewed disrespectfully. The Native American is the only one not concerned with his "appearances," however. He is also the one most concerned about what the Catholic Church is teaching. He represents that there will only be a few Christians willing to go against what society thinks of their "culture," right or wrong; only a few will still be willing to stand by it. Hearing this news "on the radio" means it will be publicly broadcasted, and coming from the Catholic Church means they will apparently be tied to the government, since this news will cause your "car" to break down, so that you are not able to "use it" or operate in it anymore. Meanwhile, by endorsing homosexuality, those in the house across the street are Catholics, who because of their church's compromise will increasingly have unclean spirits. "On a couch" carries a sexual connotation. It means the two women on the couch will be lesbians, and unclean spirits being cast out of one but not the other means some will be in a place where they can delivered but some will not.

(Continued in the next post)

 

[Hidden In Him]

- Then it switched to my husband finding a car we could get home in. We were driving down the road away from the mountains in the distance on the road. There were thunders and lightenings over the mountain and it looked very menacing. We went under the overpass and saw a tow truck coming after us. My husband kept going and said he didn't want trouble, since the car was stolen. The tow truck turned around back under the overpass, and left us alone. But then, my husband crashed into this car with an older couple inside. We were being chased by the old looking tow truck, and he crashed into the back of their car because he didn't see them in front of him. The older couple were in fine clothes and looked like they came from the United Methodist Church. They seemed more concerned about us and the stolen car and wanted to help us. Their car was unharmed, but our stolen car looked like it was almost torn in half. But we were okay. My husband told me they would be paying us $25,000 even though talking to the couple, it looked like we were both going to be in big trouble. And I woke up.

- At this time, those preaching against homosexuality will come under threat. "Mountains" represent kingdoms and governments, thus "driving away from them" represents ministries trying to distance themselves from government regulation, but with dangers looming on the horizon for doing so, with the thunders and lightning over the mountain looking very menacing being a reference to threats to one's personal welfare. The tow truck represents government enforcement trying to catch up to lawbreakers and shut down their ministries, which in speaking out against homosexuality will now be "illegal."

The last part about the old couple means that ministries teaching things which are now illegal will become a danger to those which do not, by mere association. The older couple will sympathize with speaking out against homosexuality, but will not want to risk association, as suggested by the cars "crashing" into one another. The final suggestion is that instead of "reporting" the wreck to "the authorities," conservative ministries who sympathize but fear government reprisal will instead support those which proclaim homosexuality to be a sin financially, secretly helping them in their efforts to continue preaching the truth rather than "reporting" them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

For a related response, and what Israel Folau (a famous rugby player in Australia) chose to do, see the following:
Australian Prophecies, Part 2

 

[Helen]

Hi there

I would probably not change from where I am now.
I only ever address the issue one to one when asked.

I see homosexuals just the same as rapists, Pediphiles, incest etc
But your question was about the State closing churches...
I believe your 15yrs to be very generous ,the left are already after the churches and will find any excuse to close them, maybe homosexuality will be the excuse , if not they will find something else.

Any pastor that picks on homosexual sin to preach on has no wisdom in my estimation.... ( I do not believe God is speaking that right now) ...when the pastor has dealt with the gossip , back biting , and pornography which they say is rampant in the churches , as also is the getting rich on the backs of the congregation...then maybe take on the homo's , but, there is plenty of 'sins' that needs fixing inside the church membership first.

But , you know I am always one who is out of step with the mainline

 

[Hidden In Him]

But you question was about the state closing churches...I believe your 15yrs to be very generous, they are already after the churches and will find any excuse to close them, maybe homosexuality will be the excuse , if not they will find something else.

Thanks for the response, Helen.

This dream in particular was set in the States, and while I do believe they are after the churches, to close them down in the current environment (i.e. even if the Democrats in the 2020 election) would cause too much of a public outcry, IMO. Eight years from now? Possibly. But I'm simply going on the time stamp provided in the dream. I do also believe it is something that is in flux, and could be altered by how swiftly changes take place, both here and abroad.

I definitely do think homosexuality will be the excuse, however. That is one of the things that stands out most clearly to me in the dreams.

Any pastor that picks on homosexual sin to preach on has no wisdom in my estimation....when he has dealt with the gossip , back biting and pornography which they say is rampant in the churches , also the getting rich on the backs of the congregation...then maybe take on the homo's , but, there is plenty that needs fixing inside the church membership first.

Well yes, actually. I was about to disagree, but the more I think about it, the church will have no moral ground to stand on if they don't clean up their act first. I think that's implied in the part about the Catholic preacher calling them "hypocrites." It will only serve the enemy if we are not above reproach ourselves while proclaiming homosexuality to be a sin. I think that is part of why most Christians will stand back from it, fearing to bring criticism upon themselves.

 

[Mayflower]

I would say 15 years from now, I'll be 48...my children will be my strength. If I don't stand up for what is right, they most likely will not either. So I want to say I will always stand up for the truth that homosexuality is sin amongst other things. There is a degeneration going on in society. Good is being called evil and evil is being called good. It will only get worse, but my hope, for one, is built on nothing less then Jesus Christ in righteousness. Now I'm not one to offer information that can get me killed. Especially if all that is around are closed ears. But I would never deny it either. I would answer any who asked. Especially a child.

 

[Scoot]

My concern isn't whether or not we're not preaching against homosexuality from the pulpit in 15 years. My concern is that we're not preaching the gospel correctly from the pulpit now.

If we preach about homosexuality - who are we targeting? The unsaved? If so - preaching targeting homosexuality specifically is just another distraction, and probably doesn't apply to 99% of the unsaved that comes into the Church. That's not very effective.

If we're targeting the saved with the message - maybe we should be teaching them how to read their own bibles instead.

Jesus didn't need to touch on homosexuality. That wasn't because homosexuality isn't a sin - it's because homosexuality isn't their problem.

Homosexuals can recant homosexuality - they're still going to Hell. They deal with one sin, and there's thousands more there waiting to condemn them.

In the same way I suspect the Church doesn't need to preach against homosexuality specifically. I believe it needs to preach against sin all round and present a clear gospel message.

I personally love the way Ray Comfort does an example...

"I'm now going to witness to a Catholic",
"I'm now going to witness to a Muslem ",
"I'm not going to witness to a homosexual",

Each time - he ignores the elephant in the room - and instead goes to the 10 commandments - where he addresses liars going to hell, adulterers, blasphemers, etc.

I know there are other ways to share as well - but I love that he doesn't target the big area others are ready to defend. I suspect that most homosexuals expect Christians to target their homosexuality as being the problem - and that's where their defenses are. When that's ignored, and the challenge comes from somewhere else left field to what they expect (lying for example - which they are unprepared for) - their guard is down and they're more willing to accept a dialog.

When someone is convicted and they see truth - they will desire more truth, and the bible is there for them. I've heard of testimonies where homosexuals have come to trust in Jesus, turn to Him, and then they have found out that God hates homosexuality and that it's a sin through reading the bible themselves - not that it was preached - and through their own conviction and love for God they have turned away.

We need to lift Jesus up - not focus attention away from him and onto a specific sin. Sometimes I think that we underestimate the Holy Spirit's role in conversion and conviction.

But in saying this - that is not to say that we don't call out homosexuality as being a sin or ignore it. Not at all!

And I'm not saying don't oppose it and resist the movement. On the contrary we are to resist sin - in all it's forms. What I'm saying is that I believe we should treat it like any other sin. Liars, gossipers, thieves, adultery, abortion, and fornication. We should stand against all of these.

Israel Folau mentioned numerous sins and homosexuality was only one of them. Of course - the media focused on only one - and ran with it - but I think he made a valid point by listing it among many.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I would say 15 years from now, I'll be 48...my children will be my strength. If I don't stand up for what is right, they most likely will not either. So I want to say I will always stand up for the truth that homosexuality is sin amongst other things. There is a degeneration going on in society. Good is being called evil and evil is being called good. It will only get worse, but my hope, for one, is built on nothing less then Jesus Christ in righteousness. Now I'm not one to offer information that can get me killed. Especially if all that is around are closed ears. But I would never deny it either. I would answer any who asked. Especially a child.

Great response.

Let me give mine here, which might ease the fears of some who might otherwise not be willing to admit it. But for reasons which I will explain, I would personally have no choice but to go with option 3 (i.e. "C"). My belief and my calling is that I will be raised up to teach the end-time army of God and likely also to prophecy as a member of it, and I cannot afford to cast that calling aside to make a stand and risk prison. I would have no choice to do what Israel Folau did and withhold my opinions publicly, while refusing to recant. Those familiar with me would know very well what I believed, and I would secretly support those preaching the truth if God gave me opportunity.

It's why I am encouraging others to stop and think about what would be right for them personally. We all have a job to do, and it will require wisdom on each of our parts to make the right choice.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We need to lift Jesus up - not focus attention away from him and onto a specific sin.

Greetings, Scoot.

I understand what you are saying here about preaching Jesus, but what the enemy wants us to do is preach a Jesus who accepts sin and endorses it. He wants men of God standing in the pulpit and pronouncing, "In the name of Jesus Christ, I now pronounce you husband and husband... I now pronounce you wife and wife." Satan knows this is blasphemy, so if he can coerce the church into condoning sin he will have corrupted the faith. It will no longer matter how much they focus on Jesus because the Jesus they now preach endorses sins that will lead to demonic infestation and send men to Hell.

Were it not for the specific issue here that is going to serve as the diving line between true and false, I would certainly agree with you however.

God bless, and thanks for the post.

 

[Scoot]

Greetings, Scoot.

I understand what you are saying here about preaching Jesus, but what the enemy wants us to do is preach a Jesus who accepts sin and endorses it. He wants men of God standing in the pulpit and pronouncing, "In the name of Jesus Christ, I now pronounce you husband and husband... I now pronounce you wife and wife." Satan knows this is blasphemy, so if he can coerce the church into condoning sin he will have corrupted the faith. It will no longer matter how much they focus on Jesus because the Jesus they now preach endorses sins that will lead to demonic infestation and send men to Hell.

Were it not for the specific issue here that is going to serve as the diving line between true and false, I would certainly agree with you however.

God bless, and thanks for the post.

Please take that phrase in context with the rest of what I wrote. I'm talking about preaching Jesus- not "a Jesus". I believe there is a distinct difference - and I believe that is at the very center of this issue you're talking about.

I actually agree with you completely, and you've hit the nail on the head when you said "what the enemy wants us to do is preach a Jesus who accepts sin and endorses it". That is the centre of the issue here.

Please bear with me as i try to explain myself. (I am so sorry - I wish I could with fewer words and apologise for the wall of text. I've gone over this numerous times to try and cut it shorter).

These issues can still be touched on with the true Lord Jesus Christ being in the center - and with the true gospel message preached. In fact - I believe that's the foundation of where it starts.

I believe that people are distracted on symptoms (or results) of a deeper lying issue. (in this case, the distraction is what to do about homosexuality vs persecution). It's a fair question - but I think the answer comes from elsewhere.

These people you refer to are preaching falsely because they preach a false gospel message with a false Jesus. It didn't start with accepting homosexuality - it started with a false gospel message and a false Jesus. It can only be fixed by dealing with the root of the issue - not the branches.

When I look at the bible I see many attributes of God. 3 that stand out to me are that He is Holy, Righteous and Love. I know many focus on the love aspect of God, whilst ignoring (or straight out denying) His holiness and his righteousness. At this point they're not longer focusing on God - they have created a false God in the image they want. (A God of love, but no holiness, no wrath, no righteousness). Along with that comes a false gospel message.

And I think this is the center of the issue. The issue dividing us is not homosexuality or what to preach on it. That's a fruit of the real issue - which is a false gospel message (which you have given a perfect example of - "a Jesus" who accepts sin and endorses it).

If I look at Jesus through the true gospel message of the cross, and God our Father - His Holiness in which He can't sin, and can not look upon sin, His righteousness - where He must judge sin - and judge righteously, and then His love - which was fulfilled in Jesus on the cross - how can I or anyone else seeing the gospel in it's true light turn around and promote any form of sin? The natural reaction of someone's saved spirit is to hate sin. We may slip, we may struggle with it, our flesh may desire it - but our spirit hates it.

Homosexuality (or whatever sin it is) isn't the issue - a false gospel message is the core issue. If I want to head off the problem in 15 years time of homosexuality - I believe it starts with heading it off now with the false gospel messages that are preached. Some preachers are preaching incorrectly about homosexuality not because they have the wrong idea on homosexuality - they have a false gospel message. Others preach correctly about homosexuality but never get around to the gospel message because they're too wrapped up in arguments about homosexuality and other sins.

If people are lead to the true gospel message - and see the true Lord Jesus Christ - and are convicted by the Holy Spirit - He will do the work with the issues on individual sins. In the majority of cases, I doubt we need to touch on homosexuality.

So back to your original question - I'd lean towards "C" Stop commenting on the issue. If I can preach the gospel message without breaking a law - I will choose that route first. If there's no option but to break a law - then I will go down that path.

We still need to speak truth - and that includes the truth about homosexuality - but we're not going to get people saved by getting them to see truth on homosexuality and giving it up. They're still going to hell. I fear that we'd be wasting our resources on the wrong battle. I believe there's wisdom in when, and there's wisdom in how much time we spend on a particular topic instead of on Jesus, and wisdom if those issues are going to get us in trouble if there's something more powerful at our disposal.

Your question is extremely relevant and worth raising - I just believe that the answer is found with Christ in the center, and not by dealing with the issue of homosexuality head on.

I also believe the issue won't be whether or not we can speak out against homosexuality - but whether we will be able to present the true gospel message without prosecution in 15 years time. The world hasn't realised it yet - but their issue with the Church isn't our stance against homosexuality - it's our stance with Jesus Christ.

Maybe I'm reading into your question differently, and if so I apologise. (Sometimes I misunderstand the point someone else is trying to make), but in my opinion option C is the one. Stop commenting on that issue. Center on Christ. If homosexuality comes up as a question - then address it.

If I am seeing things wrong, or am off the mark, please challenge me.

 

[Enoch111]

B. Continue proclaiming homosexuality to be a sin and face incrimination...

This is the only option open to Christians. God's truth does not change. And homosexuality is more than just sin. It is perversion.

 

[Philip James]

Hearing this news "on the radio" means it will be publicly broadcasted, and coming from the Catholic Church means they will apparently be tied to the

Hmm,

Much more likely 15 years from now, the government will be stealing Church property and prosecuting bishops and priests who refuse to comply...

For a sample of what actual Catholic radio sounds like, i suggest: EWTN Global Catholic Television Network: Catholic News, TV, Radio | EWTN

Peace be with you!

 

[Timtofly]

Once sin becomes a right, one's liberty has been taken away. The sinner embracing their right has lost liberty in Christ and back under the Law. Preach Christ and Him crucified. The government without a conscious will kill you just for that alone.

Times up anyway. Too late for government to act against the religious. Too many other rights on the minds of people these days. No police officers are going around killing homosexuals these days. No police officers going around closing down abortion clinics. Violence has many other rights being trampled, to target these days. Churches will be shut down over covid19. How convenient is that? Not that humans are trying to figure out how to tempt God, as well.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When I look at the bible I see many attributes of God. 3 that stand out to me are that He is Holy, Righteous and Love. I know many focus on the love aspect of God, whilst ignoring (or straight out denying) His holiness and his righteousness. At this point they're not longer focusing on God - they have created a false God in the image they want. (A God of love, but no holiness, no wrath, no righteousness). Along with that comes a false gospel message.

I think I understand you a little better here, and I agree. If we were preaching the right Jesus now, maybe there wouldn't be such a problem later, yes?

So back to your original question - I'd lean towards "C" Stop commenting on the issue. If I can preach the gospel message without breaking a law - I will choose that route first. If there's no option but to break a law - then I will go down that path.

Certainly, and I find that a well-balanced approach. We shouldn't needlessly offend by just focusing on people's sins instead of God's grace.

Maybe I'm reading into your question differently, and if so I apologise. (Sometimes I misunderstand the point someone else is trying to make), but in my opinion option C is the one. Stop commenting on that issue. Center on Christ. If homosexuality comes up as a question - then address it.

I think the only point of contention we have is that circumstances will force Christians to address it, because it will be raised to the level of THE question which everything hangs on in the minds of most people, unfortunately. And thus we will not be able to run from it. The enemy will be using people constantly to get in Christian's faces, to find out where they stand on the issue. Hence the warnings inherent in the dreams.

But aside from that I'd say we're in agreement.

God bless, and thanks again.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hmm,

Much more likely 15 years from now, the government will be stealing Church property and prosecuting bishops and priests who refuse to comply...

For a sample of what actual Catholic radio sounds like, i suggest: EWTN Global Catholic Television Network: Catholic News, TV, Radio | EWTN

Peace be with you!

I'm glad that the Catholic Church has stood strong in opposing homosexuality, PJ, I truly am. But there are serious problems inherent in the church where this issue is concerned, and I think they are going to eventually come home to roost.

I discussed this some in the following; Posts #1 and #2 especially, though this is by no means an exhaustive treatment of the subject. But respond to the links on Post #2 if you would like to. I would like to hear your thoughts if possible:
Australian Prophecies, Part 3

 

[Brakelite]

Hi hidden. Interesting. If I may add a little of what I saw in that first dream. The woman was going to teach, but didn't get the chance. Why not? While the native American was sighing and crying over the abominations being done in Israel, the gospel was being neglected. To much focus on the evils being done in our midst and we can lose our true identity. We are called to be witnesses for Christ, not witnesses for sinners. We are called to uphold righteousness by faith in Christ, not to exalt the evils of the world. Yet there is a correlation between the evils in the church (see Isaiah 58) and openly denouncing them, and the gospel.
Revelation 14:6-12 is a passage of scripture directly focusing on the ministry of the last day church. It is called the everlasting gospel, and is a combination of denouncing the sins of fallen Babylon (In a spiritual sense in context of the last days, an apostate fallen Christian Church but in league with the state as you suggested) but without losing any impetus in calling people, all people of whatever nation, kindred, tongue etc, to worship the true Creator.
Israel Folau hit a nerve. And he is to be lauded for standing up in his time. What he had going for him also was the ACL without which he would have been struggling. But their support and their complete 100% vindicating of all that Folau spoke about gave Folau the moral and mental encouragement to stay strong in the face of overwhelming opposition. It is unlikely any of us will have such a good organisation to back us up in the future. The ACL will be first on the target list in Oz. Here's a recent sample of the common sense and high standard of integrity they uphold here and their willingness to put it out there..

As for the dream itself and the coming collision between the true church and the union of apostate church and state, you might appreciate this...
From Crete to Malta - Walter Veith / Amazing Discoveries (ADTV) --[UPDATED version]-- - YouTube

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi hidden. Interesting. If I may add a little of what I saw in that first dream. The woman was going to teach, but didn't get the chance. Why not? While the native American was sighing and crying over the abominations being done in Israel, the gospel was being neglected. To much focus on the evils being done in our midst and we can lose our true identity. We are called to be witnesses for Christ, not witnesses for sinners. We are called to uphold righteousness by faith in Christ, not to exalt the evils of the world. Yet there is a correlation between the evils in the church (see Isaiah 58) and openly denouncing them, and the gospel.

Yes, in a way I think they are losing their identity, through sort of a compromise. The service is on until news comes of the RCC apparently (or so I interpreted it) proclaiming the State line; that it is and should be illegal to preach against homosexuality.

Israel Folau hit a nerve. And he is to be lauded for standing up in his time. What he had going for him also was the ACL without which he would have been struggling. But their support and their complete 100% vindicating of all that Folau spoke about gave Folau the moral and mental encouragement to stay strong in the face of overwhelming opposition. It is unlikely any of us will have such a good organisation to back us up in the future

Yes. If he was treated that badly, you can expect far worse, and so will we here probably.

Here's a recent sample of the common sense and high standard of integrity they uphold here and their willingness to put it out there..


As for the dream itself and the coming collision between the true church and the union of apostate church and state, you might appreciate this...
From Crete to Malta - Walter Veith / Amazing Discoveries (ADTV) --[UPDATED version]-- - YouTube

Past my bedtime and I'm fading out, so let me look at this stuff tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the links, btw. I've actually been after additional info on all this stuff, first and foremost.
So God bless! Talk to you tomorrow.

 

[Scoot]

I think I understand you a little better here, and I agree. If we were preaching the right Jesus now, maybe there wouldn't be such a problem later, yes?

I think we're understanding each other a little better.

And yes - I believe this is what Paul warns us about this in 2 Cor 11:4

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!​

And again in Galatians 1:8

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed​

I strongly suspect the problem with churches and people calling themselves Christians who support homosexuality isn't that they misunderstand the sin of homosexuality - but they have received and preach a different Jesus and a different gospel message altogether.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Israel Folau hit a nerve. And he is to be lauded for standing up in his time. What he had going for him also was the ACL without which he would have been struggling. But their support and their complete 100% vindicating of all that Folau spoke about gave Folau the moral and mental encouragement to stay strong in the face of overwhelming opposition. It is unlikely any of us will have such a good organisation to back us up in the future. The ACL will be first on the target list in Oz. Here's a recent sample of the common sense and high standard of integrity they uphold here and their willingness to put it out there..

As for the dream itself and the coming collision between the true church and the union of apostate church and state, you might appreciate this...
From Crete to Malta - Walter Veith / Amazing Discoveries (ADTV) --[UPDATED version]-- - YouTube

Managed to watch the two videos (skimmed the 2nd but watched most of it, especially all cited material). The first is very well done. Unfortunately I think sound reasoning will not apply in the years ahead. Media will justify the mistreatment of Christians on the basis that they are themselves unjust, implying that they will deserve it. So the rights of conservative Christians will be constantly dismissed with the counter of, "They want to deny others their rights, yet want their own rights preserved..."

As for the second, I believe the unification movement may make some big steps soon, although as you know we will likely disagree on its implications. I hold the Whore and the Beast to be two entirely separate and distinct entities. But they will certainly be allied with one another until the end, when the 10 kings of the Beast will hate the Whore and burn her with fire.

But that's too long a discussion to deal with here. I may answer your other post on the Antichrist thread however. We might be able to exchange a few things there (though I'm guessing we part ways quickly, LoL).

Thanks for the videos. The first is exceptionally well done. Good, sound, clear apologetics. So unfortunate that they are going to throw out sound reasoning when the time comes regardless.

 

[Philip James]

. I would like to hear your thoughts if possible

Hi HIH,

I'm not sure that you would. And I don't wish to be unkind, so I will just say:

The Church cannot change its teaching that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and immoral.
If it did, it would completely undermine its own authority and destroy the Church ( which, of course, is the enemy's desire).
Any concerted effort, within the Church, to get it to do so, would almost certainly end in schism. (As may already be happening in Germany. Lord help us!)

Rather, as she continues to speak the Truth, and refuses to submit to the darkness that the world is now fully embracing, the world's rage against her will reach a fever pitch..
A godless leader, no doubt with popular support, will attack and take control of the Vatican...

God save the Queen!