"Asleep" in Christ

[Christina]

I have wanted to write a study on this subject for some time and never seem to get time I have taught it in part but this is such a complete good study I think I could never do any where near as well. So I hope you all read and learn................................................................................ "Asleep" in Christ: Part I - What occurs at flesh death today? Where are those who sleep in Christ Jesus now? Paul gave a rebuke in 1 Corinthians 15 to some at Corinth, because they had refused to believe in the resurrection of the dead, and thus also refused that GOD raised Christ Jesus from the dead.Where Are Those Who Have Died?What happens when the flesh body dies today? Is there a life after that event, and if so, what is it like now? Are those who have died in Christ in some outer chaos state of 'nothingness', with no awareness of anything? Some would have us believe that's the way it is, and even worse, that our loved ones who have died are in the ground out there somewhere. It can clearly be seen that a personality which showed vitality and activity in their flesh body when alive, suddenly departs when their flesh dies. Just where does that 'expression' of personality go? Our LORD told us in His Word where that "spirit" goes, and His apostle Paul was sent to give believers comfort in the resurrection Message.Our LORD and Saviour does not want His to be ignorant of this matter of the resurrection, for our Lord Jesus Christ Himself rose on the third day, defeating 'Death', and Jesus Yashu'a Messiah became the "firstfruits" of that resurrection unto Life (Matt.16:21; Matt.28; Acts 10:37-43; Hebrews 2:14; 1 Cor.15:20). "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16). If you were raised a Christian, as a believer on Christ, then no doubt you've heard that verse more than once. But because of the 'commandments of men', how that John 3:16 verse applies to those who "sleep in Christ" now is not often properly taught to Christ's Body, The Church (Ekklesia). Many have distorted what Paul clearly preached on the resurrection, and because of man's traditions, it has caused many brethren in Christ sadness and a wearisome hope for loved ones who have already passed on, when our Heavenly Father did not intend any faltering hope in Christ Jesus.The resurrection of the dead is the main subject of 1 Corinthians 15. It covers our Lord Christ's resurrection, how It applies to those who are now "asleep" in Christ Jesus, and for how those still alive at Christ's coming are "changed", at the "twinkling of an eye". I reference this 1 Corinthians 15 Scripture often in my studies for the same reasons Paul was having to renew this understanding among those at Corinth, because of some among them who twisted God's Truth.I may have to cover this subject in two separate studies because of its deep spiritual nature, so let's get to it, as we ask a Word of Wisdom from our Heavenly Father, in Christ Jesus' Name, Amen.1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:Those at the Church in Corinth had some problems staying focused on what Paul had taught when he had first preached The Gospel to them. Because of the pagan abominations happening around Corinth at that time, some had left off The Gospel of Christ. Elements of paganism obviously were twisting The Gospel among them. So Paul was trying to help renew That Spirit of The Gospel in them again, and he is making known within this 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter how Christ's resurrection is the beginning of Life for those who believe on Him.When Paul says he preached Christ crucified and risen "according to the scriptures", he's talking about The Old Testament Scriptures! The Old Testament Scriptures of God's Word is all that was written at the time. God declares new things before they come to pass (Isa.42). Yahaveh (YHVH), through His Old Testament prophets testified that His Son Immanuel ('God with us'), would come to die on the cross, be buried, and rise on the third day (see Psalms 22; Isaiah 53; Isaiah 7:14; Zech.13; Dan.9:24-26; Gen.3:15; Ps.16:10-11; Hosea 6:2; Isaiah 61:1-2; Zech.9:9; Jonah 1:17; Matthew 1:23)..........................Furthermore, our Lord Christ struck Paul (Saul) down on the road to Damascus, as Paul was His "chosen vessel" (Acts 9). Paul was an excellent scholar in the Old Testament Scriptures, having studied with one of the best scholars of his day (Gamaliel; Acts 22). Yet Paul was zealous in 'traditions' of the Pharisees, instead of being given the missing link of God's anointing through The Holy Spirit to put The Scriptures aright in his mind. Our Lord Christ did that for Paul, and thus Paul received The Gospel from no man, but directly from The Lord Jesus Christ.1 Cor 15:5 And that He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:6 After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.7 After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles.8 And last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.Our Lord Jesus was seen of Peter (Cephas) after He had risen, and then of the rest of the Apostles. Then Paul saw our Lord at a time when he was persecuting Christ's Church, and our Lord Christ claimed Paul as His "chosen vessel" with a commission to further The Gospel (Acts 9).1 Cor 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.By God's Grace, He sent His Son to die on the cross for the remission of sins of all who would believe. That Grace includes the preaching of The Gospel, the hearing of The Gospel, and believing It by Christ's sent ones who were witnesses. For those reasons, many of the Corinthians, and us, have also believed.1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?Now we get down to one of the problems Paul noticed among those of the Church at Corinth. There were "some among" them that were distorting the Truth about the resurrection, and how our Lord Jesus became "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Cor.15:20).The non-believing Jews sought to have Paul killed for preaching The Gospel. Because the sect of Sadducees refused belief in any type of resurrection, Paul only had to bring the matter up between the Sadducees and Pharisees when they were ready to do away with him (Acts 23:6). The sect of Pharisees accepted the doctrine of resurrection, but refused Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, and sought to execute those like Paul who were preaching The Gospel. We can easily see these parallels still existing today of those who distort The Gospel, i.e. that Christ rose on the third day after being buried in the sepulcher tomb which Joseph of Arimathea provided.What's Paul really asking those at Corinth here? To not believe that there is now a resurrection of Life after flesh death is to refuse that Christ Himself rose. It's as simple as that. Think about it. If there is no such heavenly operation put into effect by The Father, then how could He cause His Son Christ Jesus to rise on the third day, as written? When our Lord Jesus defeated 'Death' upon the cross, that's when that operation of passing from death to Life 'in Christ Jesus', began. It doesn't have to wait for Christ's second coming to happen, our Lord put it into operation after He rose!God gave us a clear example of what happens upon death of the flesh body in The Old Testament. Let's turn to Ecclesiastes 12:Eccl 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern...................................section 1

 

[Christina]

Section 2In these Ecclesiastes 12 verses, we are being given a view of flesh death approaching in later life, when many of the visions of our youth are but memories, and we prepare to go to our "long home". In the Hebrew the phrase "long home" is 'owlam bayith', meaning 'everlasting or perpetual' 'place or house' (Strong's nos. 5769; 1004). That means our Heavenly home. For one still in the flesh, it exists behind a spiritual veil today. If the "silver cord" is "loosed", it means the band which keeps the joining of our 'spiritual body' within our 'natural body' (i.e. flesh body), is totally removed ("loosed" - Hebrew 'rachaq', meaning 'removed'; Strong's no. 7368). The "golden bowl" being broken, and the "pitcher" being broken at the fountain, are metaphors for the flesh body which is formed from the clay of the earth. The analogy is to an earthen ware jar being broken, symbolic for the flesh clay body losing the breath of Life Which sustained it."Put all that into plain English please," you might say? Alright. Our flesh body is not the real part of our 'self' or 'soul'. The flesh was formed of the elements from the ground, and though our Heavenly Father performed a marvelous work with its design and operation, it was never meant to last forever. Because the flesh is earthy, it must have food from the earth to help sustain it, but it must also have the breath of Life (see Gen.2:7-8). As an unborn fetus in a mother's womb, we lived from the Life of the mother's blood. We moved around in the womb, kicked a little here, or a lot there, until we finally came out and took our first breath. That first breath allowed us Life independent of our mother. Our 'soul' while in our mother's womb was then able to express itself outwardly, immediately showing a personality all its own. The 'soul' (Hebrew 'nephesh') is our intellect, mind, or expression of character.Then what happens to our flesh and our soul when our "silver cord" is "loosed" at flesh death? -Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.The flesh body, being from "the dust" of the earth, goes right back "to the earth as it was". That means at death it immediately starts breaking down in decay, going back into the elements of earthly matter which it was formed from. That flesh part will never be needed any longer, ever; we're done with it at death.But the "spirit", which is the breath of Life spiritual part from God, immediately goes back to The Father Who gave it. The Hebrew for that word "spirit" in the above verse is 'ruwach' (Strong's no. 7307). That Hebrew word 'ruwach' is used and translated many different ways, but it is meant here in Ecclesiastes 12 as the spirit intellect in man which God gives (see Proverbs 16:2 & Psalms 104:29-30). Some interpret this part of man as 'air' only, like the earth's physical air which we breath. We will discover later in this 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter that there is more attached to man's "spirit", i.e. that it has the part of of us which we call 'self', personality, mind, intellect, or our 'soul'. This is the part of us some call our 'inner self', and it continues after the flesh body dies, as written in that Ecclesiastes 12:7 verse.Continuing back in 1 Corinthians 15...1 Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:To deny that man has a "spirit" which God placed in the flesh at birth, which returns to The Father at flesh death, is to deny the "resurrection of the dead". Not believing that as written, would also mean to deny that Christ rose from the dead.1 Cor 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.The basis of Christianity and Salvation through God's Promised Saviour Immanuel Jesus Christ, is our Lord's death on the cross and His resurrection from the dead. Our Lord's flesh was transfigured for a further proof that He rose from the dead (Matthew 28). Anyone who denies that has denied Salvation through Christ Jesus as The Saviour.What does Paul mean with the preaching of that point? If it sounds like he is linking the subject of where the dead in Christ are now, to our Lord Jesus' resurrection, then you're correct. Paul is doing exactly that to those who refuse to believe that man's 'spirit' resurrects at flesh death (Eccl.12:7). Paul is saying something like, "Why are you listening to my preaching of The Gospel if you don't believe the dead now rise? My preaching is in vain, and your faith also means nothing, if that's what you think. For it would mean that you also don't believe our Lord Jesus rose from the dead!" And that's exactly the false doctrine which some at Corinth had fallen into, by listening to "some among" them say there is no resurrection, instead of listening to The Word through Christ's apostle Paul.1 Cor 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: Whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.Paul continues the rebuke at Corinth to those who have believed on false prophets among them in denying that the resurrection is already in effect now. "Here we've been preaching to you how God raised up Christ Jesus from the dead, and you mean you really didn't believe The Gospel we first preached to you?" That's what it means to deny the resurrection. It's saying Christ did not rise. That would make Paul and all those who preach The Gospel liars to God's Face.Right now some might be thinking to themselves, "But Dave, what this Scripture really means is the resurrection must wait until Christ returns on His second Advent, ushering in His Kingdom. Until then, all who die in Christ are 'asleep' in their grave!" Afraid not! That is not Paul's Message here with this rebuke to those at Corinth, for even our Lord Jesus taught us what happens to those in Him after He rose:John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.In that John 5 Chapter, our Lord Jesus was hinting of His being delivered up to die on the cross, and then during His resurrection, He would go to the "spirits in prison", who were in a state like the "rich man" of Luke 16, i.e. in Satan's prison, the pit, and He would preach The Gospel Salvation to those who would also believe on Him as The Saviour. Then those who believed, would be brought out, and live according to God in the spirit! Where else is that written? I want to make sure to leave no doubt with this, so turn with me to 1 Peter 3...1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.When our Lord Christ resurrected, He was "quickened by the Spirit", and angels, authorities, and powers were put under His Authority (1 Pet.3:22). Our Lord gave us in Luke 16 that there is a "great gulf fixed" border in Heaven, right now, where the 'pit' of hell is on one side, and God's Paradise is on the other side, and that all "spirits" which pass through flesh death, go to one place or the other. According to our Lord in that John 5:25 verse, Christ preached to the "spirits in prison", and led many of them out.Another example in 1 Peter 4...1 Pet 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.When The Gospel Salvation Message is "preached", is Salvation through Christ Jesus offered along with It? Yes, of course. If the "dead" are literally 'asleep' in their graves, and 'know nothing', as some misinterpret Ecclesiastes 9:5, then how could they hear and understand The Gospel being preached to them by our Lord Jesus, as written above? So how is it that some say that the dead do not rise?Who are the real false witnesses concerning this subject of the resurrection? I'll say it; it's those who would rather listen to popular traditions and further them, either for gain, or out of ignorance through lack of deeper Bible study. That Christ rose from the dead is the major foundation of our belief in God's Promised Salvation, thus this matter is not a light thing to play with. So I'm telling you to 'rejoice' in Christ Jesus, because our loved ones who have died and have also believed on Him, are with Him now!1 Cor 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.If the dead do not rise right 'now', then Christ Jesus did not rise from the dead either. That's what Paul just said here. And if God didn't raise our Lord Jesus up on the third day, then neither do we have forgiveness of our sins through Him. It would mean we are left with no hope, and would still be in our sins with our 'faith' a vanity.Who wants us to refuse to believe that God raised up The Christ? The devil is that one which continuously hinges on denying the resurrection of Christ. Even the devil's own tried to bribe the soldiers guarding our Lord's tomb, to get them to testify that Christ's Apostles came in the night and stole His Body away (Matthew 28).1 Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. Where does refusing to believe in the resurrection of the dead place those in Christ who have already died? It would mean that their "spirit" didn't go back to God Who gave it, but instead that their flesh body went back to the dust, and that's it, no life after death, "perished", period ("perished" = Greek 'apollumi', 'to destroy fully'; Strong' no.622). Through Christ Jesus we know there is Life after death, for He conquered 'Death' on the cross for us.Adding the lie that those 'asleep' in Christ are out back in the graveyard somewhere, and not in Life with Christ in the Heavenly dimension, is denial of the resurrection. That includes the false teaching that the flesh body which decayed in the casket in the grave is resurrected in the future at Christ's return. We just learned from Ecclesiastes 12 that we have both a flesh body, and a spiritual body. That flesh body will not rise, as it's gone back to the earthly elements after it dies. So at death today, that's the only part that dies and perishes, i.e. the flesh body. Our "spirit" continues on to God. Then after that, the only possible death remaining is to the spirit body, i.e. mortal soul, being thrown into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's "thousand years" reign (Rev.20; Matt.10:28). Those who are "asleep" in Christ now, and those of His who remain on earth at Christ's coming, will not suffer that future "second death", which is the casting of the soul into that 'lake of fire'. Paul will explain more about these different bodies later in this Chapter.1 Cor 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.If Christ did not rise, and there is no resurrection of the dead, then where is our hope? We would be like the non-believers wouldn't we? How is their hope? Past this flesh life, they have none, because they have refused to believe on Christ for their Salvation. Since the flesh is all there is to life in their mind, they try to live flesh life to the fullest, thinking that when you die, well..., that's it, it's all over. So "let's party", they might say. What about us? What would it mean for all our persecutions and sufferings for our Lord Jesus, doing our best in following His Commandments and denying a fleshy lifestyle of the worldly? Wouldn't that be misery for us, if we had no hope in eternal Life through Christ Jesus?That's exactly what the non-believers consider of us. They think we're foolish for believing on Christ for our Salvation, and that we've ruined our lives by not taking part in their "drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die" type attitudes. They reason that because they don't believe in 'any' life after flesh death, thus many of them want to prolong flesh life with the attempt at cloning, etc. But we who belong to The LORD, are not miserable, because we have believed on Christ Jesus our Saviour, and He gives us The Holy Spirit Comforter to 'know' His Truth is Life, and not foolishness. Moreover, He gives us to 'know' Heavenly matters which puts the worldly wise to shame.1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.section 2........................................................

 

[Christina]

Section 3 When our Lord Jesus Christ was raised up from the dead, He became the First to resurrect to a Glorious Body. We know that Enoch and Elijah did not die, and that God buried the body of Moses. All others have died, and will continue to die in the flesh, all the way up to our Lord's coming on the "seventh" angel sounding (Rev.11:15).1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.The power of death started with Adam for breaking God's Commandment. Except for Elijah, Enoch, and possibly Moses, since then all die. Likewise through Christ's resurrection, "all" shall be made alive. Yes, that includes the ungodly also, but it does not mean they receive Salvation as one 'in Christ'. Some of those will still have to make it through Christ's "thousand years" reign. Many of them will not, as per Revelation 20. Therefore, the phrase "every man in his own order:" means according to God's Plan of Salvation, not ours. Even as Paul stated in Acts 24 -Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.Look up those KJV terms "just" and "unjust" in your Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. The resurrection of the dead applies to both the 'righteous', and to the 'wicked'. The wicked must be raised also just to stand in front of Christ for Judgment, if not for any other reason (2 Cor.5:10). It's also important to realize that Satan and his fallen angels only, have already been judged and sentenced to 'perish' (Jude 1; Rev.20; Ezek.28:18). Only Christ Jesus has sole Authority to pass judgment unto everlasting damnation, which is the casting of the soul into the 'lake of fire', and called the "second death" (Rev.2:11; 20:6; 20:14; 21:8; see also Matthew 10:28; John 5:22).It's easy for those in Christ to fall into the trap of pre-judging the wicked to condemnation of everlasting hell fire, when our Lord has not done so yet. That practice has helped further some of the false traditions which clouds proper understanding of the "resurrection of the dead" per this 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter. Of course those 'in Christ' pray and hope for deliverance from the hands of the wicked, but we must be careful about seeking 'eternal revenge' which only belongs to God. Other than Satan and his angels, all others are still under our Lord's warning of being damned to perish in the lake of fire for doing wickedness (Matt.25:37-46). None have yet been cast into that "lake of fire" of Revelation 20:10-15. Am I saying that the truly wicked are going to receive everlasting Life in Christ Jesus? No. I'm saying that we know by The Word which ones have already been judged to perish, i.e. Satan and his evil angels (Matt.25:41). But for all others, we need to restrain our 'own' ideas of eternal vengeance upon those not judged by Christ yet. Vengeance belongs to our Heavenly Father, not us (Deut.32:35-43; Ps.94:1; Nahum 1:2; Rom.12:19; Rom.13; Rom.14). This does not mean for those in Christ to just lay down either. We are to be a little 'salty' for Christ (Matt.5:13). Enforcing God's Law against the evil, as given to those whom God setup in authority on earth, is still required (Rom.13). But the term 'to judge' is often misunderstood within Scripture. A flesh judge of The Law sentencing a murderer to death is not 'judging' a 'soul' to eternal condemnation in the 'lake of fire'. Only Christ can judge a soul to perish for the eternity, which is the "second death" (Matt.10:28).1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.This "end" Paul is speaking of here, is the ending of this second world age we are now in today. Christ's "thousand years" Millennium reign upon earth is included as the last part of this second world age (Rev.20). The beginning of The Father's Kingdom is the Eternity, and "third heaven", or third and last world age, which Paul spoke of in 2 Corinthians 12. That age is when God will make all things new, i.e. the "new heavens and a new earth" as written (Isa.65:17; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13). But first, Christ must reign, putting all enemies under His feet, as per Rev.20 and here in 1 Corinthians 15. So I hope you realize that between that previous 1 Cor.15:23 verse and this 24th verse, there is a long stretch of time. Read these 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 verses in the way our Lord Christ read from Isaiah 61 in the Temple at the start of His Mission as Saviour (Luke 4:16-21).1 Cor 15:25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.Our Lord Christ Jesus will reign, and 'all' knees will bow to Him as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS (Isaiah 45:23; Rom.14:11; Philippians 2:10; Rev.19:16). The final enemy that will be "destroyed", or vanished (Greek 'katargeo'), will be Satan himself, as "Death" is another one of his many titles (Rev.6:8; 1 Cor.15:54). Satan's destruction along with the wicked is written at the end of Revelation 20, and 21:8. That event is the "second death", and occurs at the end of Christ's "thousand years" reign, before He delivers up The Kingdom to The Father for The Eternity.1 Cor 15:27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, "all things are put under Him", it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.When it was written in Psalms 8:6 that GOD The Father (YHVH) has put all things under Christ's feet, The Father Himself is excepted in that, as His Son will reign in Authority over His enemies (Psalms 2; Isaiah 53; John 5:19-23; Eph.1:17-23). That is how The Father has declared Authority over all things, and during that "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 by Christ Jesus and His elect servants. (See also John 1, as 'The Word' is Jesus Christ, and all things were made through Him).1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.All will be subdued, and bow the knee to Christ Jesus when He reigns upon the earth. All will confess that Christ Jesus is Immanuel 'God with us', GOD's Promised Saviour (Isa.7:14; Matt.1:23). When our Lord Jesus has fulfilled that "thousand years" reign upon earth, then He will deliver The Kingdom to The Father. Our Heavenly Father will then return to this ancient earth which He created (Rev.21:3; Zechariah 8; Ezekiel 48:35).1 Cor 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?Don't let this KJV translation from the Greek confuse you. Keep to the subject Paul has been teaching us on, which is those who refuse the resurrection of the dead, and thus also that GOD raised His Son Christ from the dead. Paul is still mocking those who refused to believe in the resurrection. In so many words, he's saying, "If you don't believe that the dead now rise, then you don't believe that Christ Himself rose from the dead. So what in the world are you baptized in The Name of Christ for? If Christ did not rise, then that is being baptized for the dead!"Further, "If you don't believe that Christ rose, but you still see fit to get baptized in His Name, then why do you suffer 'jeopardy' (perils) everyday, if it is for the dead, that is, if you don't believe Christ rose?" For one not believing that Christ rose, then to get baptized in His Name, it would be doing works in the name of the dead. Boy, ole' Satan must really love those who would do that! Paul's rebuke to those at Corinth for listening to those false prophets among them must have really stung them, showing their ignorance on a silver platter even. Imagine today, if a non-believer who refuses that Christ Jesus rose, gets baptized in Christ's Name!?*@!. (I won't discuss it here; but it happens.)But GOD The Father did raise His Son Jesus Christ up from the dead. Those who believe on Him and are baptized in His Name, suffering dangers in this world to work for Him, are baptized into Life, not death!1 Cor 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.Paul is saying, "I protest your boasting in tribulations and trials for Christ, since some of you don't believe Christ rose. But I suffer daily persecutions for Christ Jesus, yet I have His Promise of Life, which some of you have refused!" Moreover, what Paul did suffer through at Ephesus by the children of Satan ("beasts"), because of the work GOD did through him there, would mean nothing, "if the dead rise not"!Many of those events of our Lord's work through Paul at Ephesus was much like the spiritual warfare in the days of Moses against Pharaoh's false priests. One Demetrius, a silversmith who crafted pagan idols for the false goddess Diana, had a strong contention against our Lord's Work through Paul (Acts 19:24 forward).Truly; don't be deceived. Companionship with corrupt men has been the ruin of many a good man. Paul and those with him did not go through Ephesus to have companionship with corruptness, but to preach The Gospel of Christ and help our Lord deliver many out of that corruption of false idol worship and associated practices. He knew he was walking literally into the halls of death at Ephesus, and even had prepared in his heart to die, as one already sentenced to death:2 Cor 1:7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us;How could Paul and those with him have such resolve in their hearts against the fear of death? How did they overcome that fear in such a dangerous place? They overcame it through The Blood of Jesus Christ, knowing and believing in His Promise of Life!Do you think many of those in Christ who faced death on the battlefield were also helped by our Lord to overcome their fear of death, just as Paul and Christ's disciples were? Yes, without any doubt whatsoever. Paul knew what the "resurrection of the dead" through Christ Jesus meant. We as belonging to Christ Jesus today, should also.I'll stop here for this study, and pick it up again beginning at 1 Corinthians 15:34, as we will learn more about the "resurrection" in Part ll of this study.Peace be to you in Christ Jesus,Dave Ramey

 

[Red_Letters88]

(kriss;57751)
Timing RedThe Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.
I agree the dead in Christ are already with him. But if the dead in Christ RISE first- then that would have to mean- they have been asleep. The soul goes back to its maker. But if you believe that as soon as we die- we are judged accordingly- wouldnt this also contradict timing of these things?

 

[tomwebster]

(Red_Letters88;57756)
I agree the dead in Christ are already with him. But if the dead in Christ RISE first- then that would have to mean- they have been asleep. The soul goes back to its maker. But if you believe that as soon as we die- we are judged accordingly- wouldnt this also contradict timing of these things?
No body is judged until the end of the millenium at the Great White Throne. Christians that die are in heaven on the good side of the gulf. Non-Christians are on the far side of the gulf. Luke 16The flesh body that is placed in the grave doesn't go anywhere, ever. It goes back to dust, we don't need or want it again. Ecc 12

 

[Jordan]

(tomwebster;57757)
(Red_Letters88;57756)
I agree the dead in Christ are already with him. But if the dead in Christ RISE first- then that would have to mean- they have been asleep. The soul goes back to its maker. But if you believe that as soon as we die- we are judged accordingly- wouldnt this also contradict timing of these things?
No body is judged until the end of the millenium at the Great White Throne. Christians that die are in heaven on the good side of the gulf. Non-Christians are on the far side of the gulf. Luke 16The flesh body that is placed in the grave doesn't go anywhere, ever. It goes back to dust, we don't need or want it again. Ecc 12Revelation 20:11-13

 

[Red_Letters88]

(tomwebster;57757)
No body is judged until the end of the millenium at the Great White Throne. Christians that die are in heaven on the good side of the gulf. Non-Christians are on the far side of the gulf. Luke 16The flesh body that is placed in the grave doesn't go anywhere, ever. It goes back to dust, we don't need or want it again. Ecc 12
I still dont get how people say- Someones alive and awake right after they die- the way I understand it- is everyone will be asleep- the next thing they know they will be at the throne for judgement. It seems a little weird to say Christians enjoy heaven automatically and non-Christians have to wait until judgement. You see what I mean?

 

[tomwebster]

(Red_Letters88;57760)
I still dont get how people say- Someones alive and awake right after they die- the way I understand it- is everyone will be asleep- the next thing they know they will be at the throne for judgement. It seems a little weird to say Christians enjoy heaven automatically and non-Christians have to wait until judgement. You see what I mean?
Read the Luke text in a KJV with a Strong's Concordance available. :study:

 

[tim_from_pa]

Let me add my two cents about the resurrection. There is resurrection of BOTH the just and unjust according to Jesus. The just go to eternal life. The unjust face the second death by fire. Since it is death, I assume this is annihilation by fire but I was raised originally believing hell is eternal, but then that is not death, but tormented life. Either way, that's not good!

 

[tomwebster]

(Red_Letters88;57763)
thanks for not answering...
Trying to help you find your own answer. :study:

 

[Red_Letters88]

(tomwebster;57757)
No body is judged until the end of the millenium at the Great White Throne. Christians that die are in heaven on the good side of the gulf. Non-Christians are on the far side of the gulf. Luke 16The flesh body that is placed in the grave doesn't go anywhere, ever. It goes back to dust, we don't need or want it again. Ecc 12
Heres what Im getting to Tom: Kriss emphasizes timing. You emphasize the gulf barriers and judgment timing.But my question remains: If we ALL (Christian and not) have to WAIT till the judgment seat of Christ/ GWT.....then why would you all claim that Christians Immediately enter heaven- while the non believer just has to sit and wait for judgment. I just thought of how I may be misunderstanding- Christians pass from death to life- in a way avoiding the great "judgment" to come?

 

[Jordan]

(Red_Letters88;57760)
(tomwebster;57757)
No body is judged until the end of the millenium at the Great White Throne. Christians that die are in heaven on the good side of the gulf. Non-Christians are on the far side of the gulf. Luke 16The flesh body that is placed in the grave doesn't go anywhere, ever. It goes back to dust, we don't need or want it again. Ecc 12
I still dont get how people say- Someones alive and awake right after they die- the way I understand it- is everyone will be asleep- the next thing they know they will be at the throne for judgement. It seems a little weird to say Christians enjoy heaven automatically and non-Christians have to wait until judgement. You see what I mean?For nonChristians to be judged, they have to wait after the Mellineum Reign... Since I don't know people's heart.Some will go to the Mellineum Reign to be taught, and some don't. (Like Kenites - sons of Cain Ref: Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9, Revelation 14:11)

 

[Christina]

I think I see what you are saying but Asleep means dead physically not sleeping then we are toldto abent from the body is to be present with the Lord then we are also told of a Gulf than can not be crossed I think what you are asking is where are the dead raised from if its not from the grave then it must be the gulf. Because it can not be the body as it returns to dust it was made of. They are with God so another words those in the gulf who are already dead (asleep) are raised first. Then those of us here will be changed all to be gathered to the Lord.PSSoul sleep is a minority belief that the soul sleeps unconsciously between the death of the body and its resurrection on Judgment Day. The concept of “soul sleep” is not a biblical doctrine.

 

[Christina]

(Red_Letters88;57766)
Heres what Im getting to Tom: Kriss emphasizes timing. You emphasize the gulf barriers and judgment timing.But my question remains: If we ALL (Christian and not) have to WAIT till the judgment seat of Christ/ GWT.....then why would you all claim that Christians Immediately enter heaven- while the non believer just has to sit and wait for judgment. I just thought of how I may be misunderstanding- Christians pass from death to life- in a way avoiding the great "judgment" to come?
Red I do not know how I misunderstood your question my head must be somewhere else I guess it was the raising of the dead that confused me ....What you are missing is the Milleium the 1000 years before the GWT judgement There is a 1000 years of teaching between Christs second coming and the GWT judgement. This is when people who never heard the deserving are taught by the lord and those who reign with him we are in spirit bodies during this time. And heaven and Christ are here on earth.Then after the 1000 years Satan is losed again for a short time to test them as we had to be tested. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Then comes the White throne Judgement Satan and hell destroyed then the new heaven and New earth and there is no sin

 

[Christina]

"Asleep" in Christ: Part II:How are the dead raised and with what body?The first part of this study in 1 Corinthians 15 revealed how Paul was having to renew The Gospel in the hearts and minds of many at the Church of Corinth. Some there had corrupted the simple understanding of our Lord Christ's Resurrection, and thus the resurrection of the dead in general. Paul even gave us examples of his trials at Ephesus among "beasts", i.e. those who follow Satan. He and his fellow brethren who went there held the "sentence of death" in their hearts, as already being prepared to die in the flesh (compare 1 Cor.15:32 with 2 Cor.1:7-9). And that so that they would be more willing to follow GOD through Christ, and not man.In this study, Paul will explain deeper as to what body those who resurrect 'put on' after death in the flesh. Some believers may consider this Biblical subject as too difficult to grasp, and impossible to know or understand. Most often, that attitude is the result of this matter not being fully taught to them directly from God's Word. Our Heavenly Father gave It to His to know, through Paul His "chosen vessel". And as the state of death of the flesh is a natural phenomenon of the 'flesh realm', likewise the resurrection of the "spiritual body" to the Heavenly dimension where God dwells, is even more natural.Let's continue this 1 Corinthians 15 study in verse 34, 1 Cor 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."Wake up out of your stupor!", that's what Paul is saying to those at the Church of Corinth, and... also for many believers today which are in Biblical ignorance. Use plain old common sense, and put away the doubt that some would have us lodge upon. Some do not realize the importance of Christ's Mission as Saviour and His Resurrection from the dead. Those "have not the knowledge of God". Thus Paul was speaking to "some" among the Church at Corinth who had crept in, and were distorting The Gospel of Christ Jesus. For those who once believed, it's to their own "shame" also, because they would rather listen to doubters and fad makers, than the simple Word of God as written. (Recall back in 1 Corinthians 15:12 that "some" among those at Corinth were denying the resurrection of the dead?)1 Cor 15:35 But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"Since those at Corinth were having difficulty in understanding the resurrection of the dead, Paul felt it necessary to explain this spiritual matter in detail. In the Greek, this question can be worded as, "In what way are the dead raised? And with what sort of body do they appear with?"Our Lord Christ's Transfiguration should not be confused with this particular working Paul is getting ready to explain here. Our Lord Jesus' Body was transfigured to further show that God raised Him. The body of Moses was buried in Moab by God Himself, yet Moses later appeared on the mount with Elijah in front of Christ's disciples (Deut.34; Matt.17). In other words, we know Moses really did die in the flesh, but his body may have been transfigured also, likewise as Enoch and Elijah were taken, and were not (see Jude 1:9). But all others part the flesh with that earthly body going back to the dust as written (Ecclesiastes 12:5-7).1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:The Greek for "fool" as used here can mean 'ignorant', 'egotistic', or 'unbelieving' ('aphron'; Strong's 878). Paul's just saying, "Don't be silly and ignorant of The Truth."This verse begins a simple analogy as to how the resurrection happens compared with a sown seed that germinates and grows. The word "quickened" is Greek 'zoopoieo', meaning 'to vitalize'. Thayer's Greek Lexicon has it as 'to cause to live, to produce alive, to restore to life', etc. (Strong's 2227).One major difference to keep in mind with this analogy of a seed which is 'dormant', and then springs a new life from within when it is sown in the ground and germinates, is that the flesh and the spirit are two distinctly different dimensions. Paul will make that distinction later on in this Chapter also. The main point of this sowing analogy, is that even God has ordained His Power to make even a dormant (dead) plant seed show a new life when it germinates to another plant. But even that dead plant seed or kernel is not the body that will spring forth with new life (i.e., "thou sowest not that body that shall be"). That dead kernel or seed came from an older plant which had already died. It's easily seen when a seed such as a kernel of corn is planted, and it becomes a 'new' tall plant with ears of corn growing from it. That germinating growth within the seed feeds off of the dead outer shell until it takes root in the ground.We know our flesh natural body cannot be compared exactly to a plant seed in that operation, so don't get too literal with this analogy. The main point here is that the seed had to die first, before a 'new plant' bearing fruit could come forth. Likewise it is with our own flesh body, when our 'spiritual body' will merely step out of its old flesh body at death. Instead of a seed producing 'another' new 'flesh' plant like the one it originally came from, our spirit body will not be a product... of a new flesh body. If one believes our resurrected body will be of the flesh order, then they have believed on a false doctrine like that of reincarnation. Some may not like to hear that, but nevertheless, that's the belief the evil one has tricked many into, if they believe in being raised into a new 'flesh' body after death.

 

[Christina]

Part 2 section 21 Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.Now Paul is going to mark the difference between various flesh bodies, and how God set different operations into existence. Each "seed" has its own type of nature. We cannot expect to plant an apple seed and get a lemon tree plant. The two are genetically different. So it is with animals, and also with mankind, each given a body to which it was purposed by God in His flesh creation.The point being made with these two verses about the flesh, is also of how God created and formed man's 'flesh image' to be in the likeness of His Image and that of the angels (Genesis 1:26-27). The 'image' for flesh man didn't originate with that man Adam. The Image of Man began with GOD's Own Image, and His Son was The Perfect Pattern of That Heavenly Image of Man on earth as The Saviour (Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:12-15; Exod.24:10-11; Ezekiel 1:26; Matt.1:23 with "Emmanuel"). Paul is going to 'cross borders' so to speak with this Message of That Heavenly Image of Man a bit later. Right now, he's still giving analogies as to the differences between bodies within this flesh dimension.1 Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.By this "celestial bodies", it is meant as heavenly orbs above the earth, as in outside away from this earth, but "bodies terrestrial" means today's earthly nature, such as flesh. The "glory", or splendor of the heavenly orbs is of one 'order', and the glory or operation of the earthly is another. Each celestial body of nebula, planet, star, solar system, and galaxy each have their own type of order and appearance, and reason for existence in God's material part of His creation. The sun and the moon, which are of the same material dimension, are obviously different, and have different operations and purposes. Yet they both operate within the same material dimension. It's important to realize Paul is not speaking of God's Heavenly dimension Abode with the word "celestial". Paul is simply giving an example of how there are different orders even within this same material dimension, i.e. the sun being a celestial body, and this earth being a terrestrial body, yet both in the same material dimension.Also in the Heavenly dimension order, there are different glories also. The "it" part below is speaking of our spirit body which exists in the Heavenly Order.1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:Likewise, with all the different orders of existence God created, so it is when our flesh body dies or at the change of the "last trump", our "spiritual body" is suddenly revealed in the Heavenly order. "It" was put into an earthly flesh body at conception, being sown in corruption, "it" will be raised in incorruption of the Heavenly Order.This is where many get confused with the differences between the 'soul' (spirit intellect), and the spiritual vehicle body that transports the 'soul' intellect. Let me say that again. The 'soul' (Hebrew 'nephesh' but used in various applications), which is our 'personality' or 'intellect', is attached to a "spiritual body" within the flesh. When God formed our flesh in our mother's womb, He placed a 'spiritual body' within it, which has our 'soul' intellect or 'self'. Paul will clarify this distinction between the natural body and the spiritual body in the next few verses.The spiritual body is "sown in corruption", meaning it is placed inside a flesh body that gets weak, sick, and dies. We all well know about the weakness which the flesh body is under. At death of the flesh body, the spiritual body "is raised in incorruption". The Greek word for "incorruption" is 'aphthrsia', meaning 'incorruptibility, unending existence' (Strong's 861). Our spiritual body was sown into the flesh in "weakness"; it will be "raised in power", meaning of the power of the Heavenly dimension. (Don't get ahead of me just yet with this, for with some in that Heavenly dimension, their 'spiritual body' can still perish in the "lake of fire", and "be no more", as Revelation 20:15 and Psalms 104:35 puts it).This "it" is the spiritual body with which the dead also must appear with before Christ's Judgment Seat, as per the following 2 Corinthians 5 verses:2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.When Paul stated "all" will appear in front of Christ per that 2 Cor.5:10 verse, that's exactly what he meant. All... the "just", and the "unjust", will appear before the Judgment Seat of our Lord Christ Jesus, to receive reward for serving Him, or punishment for serving the evil one (see Acts 24:15). As stated in Part I of this study, only Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire". None else have yet.1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.Paul is noting the distinction between 'two' bodies we each have. This word "natural" is Greek 'psuchikos', meaning 'animate' which is the part we have in common with the animals, i.e. a gross sensuous nature. And the word "spiritual" is Greek 'pneumatikos', meaning 'non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross)' (Strong's 5591, 4152). Ethereal means of the Heavenly dimension.We each have 'both' bodies while in the flesh, together at the same time, for as Paul said here, "...there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body". That means present tense, as in 'right now'.So at death of the flesh, the "spiritual body" which already is inside our flesh vehicle, merely steps out with its 'soul' intact, and separates from the flesh at death, the "silver cord" being "loosed" (Ecclesiastes 12:5-7). This is a very natural operation which God setup, and we should never fear it, even though the devil's own do everything they can to distort this Truth, and cause many to fear it.1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul;' the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."The "first man Adam", meaning the fleshy pattern for man created from the Heavenly Pattern Image of God and the angels for this second earth age, was made "a living soul" by God placing a soul with a spirit body, into an earthly formed flesh vehicle (Gen.1-2). The "last Adam", meaning Jesus Christ Begotten as The Perfect Pattern of Man of the Heavenly, was made a Glorious Spirit, quickened by God's Spirit when He raised His Only Begotten Son from death on the cross. The "last Adam" is also The Pattern believers on Christ will be made similar to, and are the "sons of God" (1 John 3). That means as children of God, in the Heavenly state like the angels of God (Mark 12:25).This final Heavenly state of "the last Adam" which Paul is speaking of here is not just the imperishable 'spiritual body' which will not be subject to the earthy elements of hot, cold, sickness, etc., but it is the final Pattern of glory for God's Eternal Kingdom. That spiritual bodily Pattern is modeled after The Son (1 John 3).1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.For the deeper Bible students, this first state is speaking of when God created Adam "also" flesh, and placed his soul into a flesh formed body (Gen.2; Gen.6:3). There was another heavenly world/earth age before this second one which God began at Genesis 1:2 (see the Genesis studies). Our Heavenly Father destroyed that pre-Adamic age when Satan rebelled and brought this age of flesh so as to offer Salvation through His Son Who died on the cross for the remission of our sins. So the flesh state is first for this second worldly age, and then after death of the flesh comes the spiritual state. Likewise also, the first patterned flesh man is of the earthy state Adam, but the Pattern for the "second man", as quickened by God's Spirit is The Heavenly Christ Jesus. Though believers on The Saviour will go through a similar change in being quickened in their spiritual body to the Heavenly, we shall never be 'a Christ', but we are "sons of God", calling out "Abba", which means 'Father' (Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:15).1 Cor 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.In John 3 our Lord mentioned that one must be "born again" to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (John 3:3-9). If you'll get your Strong's Concordance out and look, you'll discover that "born again" in the Greek means 'born from above' ('anothen'; Strong's 509). Well, born 'from above' where? It means our soul being placed inside our flesh by God and being born of 'water' of woman's womb. We must also receive God's Spirit inside us by believing on His Saviour Jesus Christ. So as we have held the "image of the earthy", i.e. flesh body, so will we hold the "image of the heavenly". It occurs when our 'spiritual body' goes back to The Father at flesh death, as written in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7.1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.This is how we know for certain, that our spiritual body with our soul is ethereal, and of the Heavenly, and not of flesh, period. A spiritual body in the Heavenly cannot be a body of "corruption" like the flesh body is. Simply, flesh cannot go there where God is. This is why Isaiah got so nervous when his 'spirit' was allowed to see God in a vision (Isa.6). Isaiah figured himself to be dead, for he knew none could see God without having died in the flesh. Therefore, this verse is yet another example that the flesh and the spirit are two separate and different dimensions of existence. Because angels have appeared to flesh man during this flesh age, and also because of the example of the Heavenly manna feeding flesh children of Israel in the wilderness, we know this is how God's Eternity will be different, but will still include a material earth (see 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65; 66; Rev.21).

 

[Christina]

Part 2 section 31 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.If Paul hadn't covered enough of this spiritual matter already towards the end of this Chapter, he's going deeper. So it's not time to drift off with this study.Not all of those 'in Christ' will have passed on to the spiritual state before our Lord Christ finally returns. Many brethren in Christ are still going to be here on earth in their flesh body up to the second coming of our Lord Christ Jesus, along with the 'spiritually dead' (unbelievers and deceived). How do we know? Because as Paul states, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:...", that's when everyone will be in the Heavenly dimension on earth. The "dead" in this verse, meaning the 'spiritual dead' who are still alive on earth in the flesh, will also be raised into an incorruptible 'spiritual body', and we all are going to be different ("changed" = Greek 'allasso', i.e. 'to make different'; Strong's 236).Thus the Heavenly dimension will be revealed to all, and all knees will bow to Christ Jesus as KING and LORD. By this... working is 'how' even those who pierced Him on the cross will be able to see Him when He comes (Rev.1:5-7; John 19:37; Zechariah 12:10). We all will be in our 'spiritual body' at that point.By counting the number of trumpets in Revelation, we know this "last trump" is the seventh and last angel sounding of Revelation 11:15, and is when all the kingdoms of this world will become Christ's. That also means our Lord is coming here; we're not going anywhere up in the atmosphere, as the Heavenly will be revealed upon the earth when all put off their flesh body shell (see Zechariah 14). Many confuse these 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 verses with the so-called 'secret rapture' doctrine, of being 'taken out' before Christ comes. That 'secret rapture' idea is not written, as Paul even gave us the timing here for the "last trump" when everyone alive on the earth will also have their flesh cast off and their spiritual body revealed. The separation between God's servants through Christ Jesus will then occur... upon the earth (again see Zech.14; Matthew 25; Rev.20; Ezekiel 44).Those who preach the false 'secret rapture' doctrine of flying away like to link that doctrine with these verses, and with 1 Thessalonians 4, so let's turn there for a moment:1 Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.Paul didn't want our brethren at Thessalonica to be ignorant of the resurrection either, like some at Corinth were. He's saying, "I want you to know where those who have died in Christ are (i.e. "asleep"), and not to be ignorant as the heathen are, who don't believe in the resurrection, and are thus without hope. Don't even sorrow for those in Christ who have died," he is saying.1 Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.If those in Christ believe that God raised His Son from the dead, then also those in Christ who have already died, our Lord Jesus will bring with Him when He comes back to earth. Plain enough.Now 'how' can Jesus bring those believers who have already died with Him if they're not already where He is beforehand? Give Satan enough time, and he'll figure out a way to twist these verses, and he has, with a so-called false 'secret rapture', i.e. that some on the earth rapture up to meet Christ before the great tribulation, and then come back down with Him, like a bouncing ball.1 Thes 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.Those in Christ who are still alive in the flesh and remain upon the earth until His coming, shall in no way 'precede' ("prevent") those who are asleep in Christ which have already parted from their flesh bodies at death. How's that? It's because those "asleep" in Jesus are already with Him (see what Christ said to the malefactor crucified with Him in Luke 23:42-43). The Greek word for this "prevent" in the New Testament Manuscripts is 'phthano', and it means 'to be beforehand, i.e. anticipate or precede' (Strong's 5348). That means believers still in their flesh bodies upon earth will not 'go before' those in Christ who have already died. That's very insightful, because according to God's Power He setup governing the resurrection of the dead, one must leave their flesh body behind to resurrect to the Heavenly, just as God raised His Son Jesus Christ from the dead (excepting our Lord's Body being transfigured; ours will not be, but will be cast off). This is how the saints (those "asleep") per Zechariah 14 can, and will return with Christ, when He sets foot upon the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise firster Zechariah 14:4-5, Christ's feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives, which is on the "last trump", the seventh of Revelation 11:15. But the "dead in Christ" (not the 'spiritually dead'), i.e. those already "asleep", resurrect when they leave the flesh now. This is just as Paul stated that those who are alive and remain will not 'precede' ("prevent") those who have already gone on to be with our Lord Jesus (see also 2 Cor.5). Paul is just giving a short summary, and means "the dead in Christ shall rise first" when they die. Separate the colon ( above into separate subjects. That's what a colon does in English grammar.Why in the world the KJV translators chose that word "prevent" for Greek 'phthano' which means 'precede', is beyond me. If you speak another language, then how would you translate 'precede' to that other language? One certainly wouldn't use meanings which imply to 'prevent' a working of God. So we could only reconcile that word 'prevent' as meaning, "you can't prevent those who die in the flesh today from their spiritual body leaving it!" We can't stop the resurrection of the dead from happening, for God has ordained it to happen immediately when one dies! (Eccl.12:5-7 again).1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.This "shall be caught up" phrase is the sole Greek word 'harpazo', and it means 'to seize (in various applications)' (Strong's 726). As used in this verse, it means those in Christ will "flee" as a great gathering, to where our Lord Jesus Christ will be. We are 'seized' to Him in our spiritual body. Greek 'harpazo' does not mean 'up', as the KJV translators missed much in this verse, but the direction will be more of 'over there'. Where's 'over there'," you might ask? Let's look in Zechariah 14, which tells us of our Lord Christ's return:Zech 14:4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.This is where those in Christ which are still alive and remain in their flesh body at His coming will go to at the 'change' into their "spiritual body". So where's the Mount of Olives? It's where Jerusalem is today, and is also the spot where our Lord Jesus ascended to Heaven from (Acts 1). This certainly will be no 'secret rapture', nor anything like that. It will be a "gathering" together to Christ, as Paul explained in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 with the Greek word 'episunagogue' (Strong's 1997).The word "air" in that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse is Greek 'aer', and it is - 'from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow)' (Strong's 109). The definition is about the breath which God put into man that sustains our flesh, but is spirit. In John 3:8 our Lord Jesus also used 'wind' as an analogy for the 'spiritual body'. A more correct translation of this "to meet the Lord in the air" would be the act of being seized to The Lord 'in the breath', or Breath of Life spirit body. In other words, it just means to flee to our Lord where He will be upon the earth when He appears, and we will flee to Him in our revealed Heavenly dimension "spiritual body".But for the Biblical unlearned, they are easily swayed into taking the KJV translator's expression as meaning to go up into the atmospheric clouds to meet Christ, above the earth, and live in the 'clouds' forevermore. Obviously, per the Zechariah 14 verses above, our Lord Jesus returns to set foot upon the earth where His Kingdom Rule will be established. That is not up in the 'clouds' to live friend. Paul was using an expression with this "in the clouds" phrase, as meaning a great gathering together of Christ's Body, The Church.Back to 1 Corinthians 15...1 Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.For those who have already tired of this long study and left or put it down, they will have missed the deepest mystery Paul touches on in this verse. These next few verses are the highlight of the teaching on the resurrection of the dead. Not to get off the subject with this, but it seems many times within our Lord's Word, part of His protection of deeper Truths within It, is that many of them appear in the middle, or weaved within and without historical verses, or just before the Chapter ends. It means those who have taken the time, been patient in The Word, and kept to being thorough all the way to the end, will not miss the "pearls" of God's Treasures. Thus a true disciple of Christ requires self-discipline in The Word.I put the words above in the 1 Corinthians 15:53 verse in bold because... each one of those words in the Greek has a different and separate meaning about our "natural body" vs. the "spiritual body", and a 'mortal' soul vs. an 'immortal' soul. This is very important to take back to the Greek. Otherwise we won't really know what Paul is speaking of here.The word "corruptible" is Greek 'phthartos', and means 'decayed, i.e. (by implication) perishable' (Strong's 5349). That applies to our weak flesh body which goes back to the earthly elements it came from when it dies. The word "incorruption" is Greek 'aphthrsia', and means 'incorruptibility, genetive case unending existence' (Strong's 861). It means the "spiritual body" which we covered back in verses 42 and 50. This "spiritual body" doesn't get sick, feels no pain, won't die like the flesh, but is a body of the Heavenly order by God's Power. This incorruptible spirit body is what we 'all' have dwelling within our flesh. Even the wicked have this kind of spirit body within their flesh today. It separates from our flesh body at death by the parting of a "silver cord" (Eccl.12:5-7).To explain this more simply, whichever dimension of existence our soul is in, it requires a vehicle to get around in that state of existence. For this flesh material dimension, it requires a "corruptible" (Greek 'phthartos') flesh body. In the heavenly Order by God's Power, the soul requires a "spiritual body" vehicle to get around in (Greek 'aphthrsia'). But there's more...Our soul must go through a change in Christ Jesus to have Everlasting Life. The word "mortal" in the Greek is 'thnetos', meaning 'liable to die' (Strong's 2349). This 'mortal' is a 'condition' of the 'soul', or soul intellect. So what's the word "immortality" which the 'soul' must put on to have Eternal Life? "Immortality" is Greek 'athanasia' meaning 'deathlessness' (Strong's 110). The spiritual state of our 'soul' must put on "immortality" to be with The Father and Son forevermore. It must become totally free from the power of death. Per Revelation 20:14, we know the power of "death" will not be destroyed until the end of our Lord Christ's "thousand years" reign upon the earth. That means the "spiritual body" of some at that future time, along with their "mortal" soul, can still be under the power of 'death'.Now put all that together you say? All, the "just" and the "unjust" will be changed into their 'incorruptible body' (aphthrsia) at our Lord Christ's coming. But the 'soul' of the "unjust" will be in a state which is still 'liable to die' (thnetos). Thus in God's Word, there is such a matter as both a 'mortal' soul, and an immortal soul. "How can a 'spiritual body' in the Heavenly with a soul perish," you might ask?Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.This is what our Lord meant with "both soul and body" still able to be destroyed in "hell" ('hell' is Greek 'geena' here; used as a metaphor for the "lake of fire" event of Rev.20). The destruction of one's 'soul' in the "lake of fire", even while they have left the flesh, and are in their 'spiritual body', is... the "second death"...Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Those who overcome in Christ Jesus during this flesh age will not experience the "second death". The 'second death' is the perishing of the "spiritual body" (aphthrsia) along with the "mortal" (thnetos) 'soul', in the "lake of fire". The power of death, and the one (Lucifer) given control over it, along with the wicked and their holding place (hell, pit, the abyss, prison, etc.), will all perish in that lake of fire.Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.Moreover, those who overcome in Christ will be of the "first resurrection", which is the 'soul' putting on 'athanasia', i.e. 'immortality' or deathlessness; a spiritual body with a soul that cannot die, ever! "Well done, thou good and faithful servant:...", as our Lord would say in Matthew 25.Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Those of verse 15 above are the ones who will be in a 'spiritual body' during Christ's "thousand years" reign, but with a 'soul' that is 'thnetos', or still 'liable to die' in the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's reign (Rev.20). Satan and his angels have already been sentenced to perish in that 'lake of fire'. None else have yet (see also Rev.21:8).So if there is a "first resurrection" as written, then is there another resurrection later, i.e. a second one? In other words, will some during Christ's reign who are still in a "liable to die" spirit body and soul, put on 'athanasia' ('immortality') in Christ Jesus later? Yes:Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Based on what our Lord revealed through Paul about the state of the soul in a "spiritual body" during that "thousand years", some who will have a 'mortal' soul throughout, will later put on 'immortality'. Those will come to Christ Jesus as their KING and LORD and be like the "first resurrection". Those will not perish in the "lake of fire" with Satan, hell, and the wicked. Thus, they will 'live' again in the everlasting immortal sense, to be with The Father and Son Eternal.Continuing in 1 Corinthians 15...1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.So when all born into the flesh are finally 'changed' and done with that "corruptible" flesh body, and then step into their "spiritual body" that is of the Heavenly and is "incorruption",... and when those in Christ with "mortal" souls puts on "immortality", only then will occur the saying, "Death is swallowed up in victory".As long as you grasp the difference between the four states or conditions we each must go through in Christ, then the many fads and leaven traditions formed by man's 'topical' understanding on the resurrection of the dead, become exposed for what they are.The "strength of sin is the law". Please let that soak in. If you also understand about the first earth age, and that this second age, which is of flesh, is not how God originally setup His creation, then that's why the carnal nature cannot please God as written (Romans 8, where Paul also covered much about that first formation of the heavens and the earth, long 'before' Lucifer rebelled). The carnal state cannot be mindful and stable in adhering to God's Law. For Eternal Peace to happen, man must be freed from that perishing nature. Our Father sent His Son Jesus Christ to get us out of the bondage of the carnal, and bring us to Himself, and live according to God in the spirit.1 Cor 15:57 But thanks be to God, Which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.This teaching our Lord Christ gave us through His apostle Paul should produce greater strength and peace of mind for one in Christ. That especially for these latter day times. Those at Corinth were receiving the "strong meat" of this teaching of our Lord through Paul, in the Greek language (Hebrews 5). Thus they understood these different meanings of the flesh vs. the heavenly body states. Many of our brethren, who also love The Father through His Son, are not being taught this fuller meaning from the New Testament Greek by Christ's apostle Paul. They have accepted something else, based on a 'topical' understanding of this Chapter as given by the KJV translators. If you've understood this, then what else have you missed by not going back to the original Bible languages using a simple Strong's Concordance?So that's a very important Chapter in God's Word, and helps explain God's Operation of the resurrection of the dead. I hope and pray through Christ Jesus that your 'spirit' begins to remember this order which is according to God's Plan of Salvation.Peace be to you in Christ Jesus,Dave Ramey

 

[Vherince]

First of all, we are not going to the heaven of angels. That is very clear in the Bible.1 Thessalonians 4:14-15 "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. [15] According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."So, evidently, Christians are alseep. "Asleep in Christ" if you establish it that way. What about sinners and pagans and the like?2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;"Satan and his angels dwell in hell AWAITING Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"The sting of death is its torment over our souls. If we fall asleep in Christ then death does not affect us. That means that sinners must then go to Hell before Judgment.Going into sleep TOTALLY destroys the purpose of entering Heaven. That is why after the Resurrection we will go to the Third Heaven, which is the ultimate presence of the LORD our God.2 Corinthians 12:2-4a "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise." Note that in KJV paradise is capitalized.So the Third Heaven is Paradise because Paul is evidently repeating himself. What's Paradise? It's where a select few who miss sleep in Christ such as the criminal (Lk.23:43). Where is this Paradise?Revelation 2:7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." The Tree of Life is also on the New Earth in the New Jerusalem as we learn from the last part of Revelation. So, Paradise is synominous with Third Heaven and New Earth. You must assume that the new Earth that is talked about in Revelation is just the Third Heaven; you can verify it because Revelation declares that God is actually be with man; the Third Heaven is the ultimate presence of God.That's my $.02.

 

[Christina]

Asleep simply means dead those that have died are already there thats why they cant be preceeded. Satan is not in hell he is being held by Michael in heaven his evil sptrit roams the earthhis fallen Angel coherts are in the pit temporalily.Satan has not yet been sent to hell that dies not happen util Christ returnsRev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. This Star is Satan he is the king of the Locust army (see Joel) this locust army is his army of fallen AngelsRev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon. Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[Vherince]

Er, Satan is, after Judgment, sent to the Lake of Fire, which by all means is totally different than Hell. For one, Hell (or Death) is temporary, the Lake is eternal. Revelation 20:10 "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."Hell ended once the sinners were taken out of it to be punished forever. Or that was at least my understanding.