Balaam...false or true prophet?

[Stranger]

This man is quite an enigma to me. His story is recorded in (Num. 22-25). His way is recorded in (2 Peter 2:15-16). His doctrine is recorded in (Rev. 2:14). His death is recorded in (Josh. 13:22) After reading all of these sections, what do you think? Was Balaam a false or true prophet? Myself, I am on the fence at this time.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

an enigma period, ya. A prevalent opinion is that something crucial was edited out, but i'm not buying that...we can read other passages about condemnation for what appears to be no sin committed, Job, the prophet who was told by another prophet to stay and eat after he had been told to not stay and eat in 1 Kings 13...

 

[Helen]

I also was reminded of the story in 1 Kings 13 about the old prophet that lied to the young prophet ..and got him killed. Both these prophets failed and fell short. Even though their prophetical word when God was speaking through them was 'right on'. When not anointed by God to act within their calling...they showed very much 'flesh and blood'.

Balaam 'to me' is in the same boat..when anointed was God's man of the hour...when not, he was a fleshly man.
We could say this about those we have today, Benny Hinn's or otherwise.
No man of God is super human in his own strength...and as it says- "the gifts and callings of God are not withdrawn..." It whole thing rests upon the heart felt integrity of the character of the man himself. None of the above were in the league of Daniel, Joseph, Moses...God allows us to see the weakness in Elijah as he first prophesies powerfully, it is fulfilled by God, but then he runs and quakes in fear...being human.
That is one of the things I love about the bible...God doesn't hide the weaknesses of Gideon, David, Moses, Abraham or anyone! God hangs it out for all to see.
If 'man' wrote the bible I am sure they would have painted them all as super saints.

Balaam-- a true prophet when anointed, but a flawed weak character. ( as Jonah who was a very reluctant prophet) ... Maybe many of the 'weaker' prophets didn't sign up for the anointing or life that God laid upon them..there a thought.

 

[Stranger]

I also was reminded of the story in 1 Kings 13 about the old prophet that lied to the young prophet ..and got him killed. Both these prophets failed and fell short. Even though their prophetical word when God was speaking through them was 'right on'. When not anointed by God to act within their calling...they showed very much 'flesh and blood'.

Balaam 'to me' is in the same boat..when anointed was God's man of the hour...when not, he was a fleshly man.
We could say this about those we have today, Benny Hinn's or otherwise.
No man of God is super human in his own strength...and as it says- "the gifts and callings of God are not withdrawn..." It whole thing rests upon the heart felt integrity of the character of the man himself. None of the above were in the league of Daniel, Joseph, Moses...God allows us to see the weakness in Elijah as he first prophesies powerfully, it is fulfilled by God, but then he runs and quakes in fear...being human.
That is one of the things I love about the bible...God doesn't hide the weaknesses of Gideon, David, Moses, Abraham or anyone! God hangs it out for all to see.
If 'man' wrote the bible I am sure they would have painted them all as super saints.

Balaam-- a true prophet when anointed, but a flawed weak character. ( as Jonah who was a very reluctant prophet) ... Maybe many of the 'weaker' prophets didn't sign up for the anointing or life that God laid upon them..there a thought.

I agree and am leaning this way also. How can Balaam be a false prophet when he never gave a false prophecy. He always said he could not say but what the Lord told him. And that is always the prophecy he gave. And Balaams sin did not involve prophecy, but involved trying to hinder or stop the people of Israel through the use of Moabite women and idolatry.

And Balaam was not an Israelite, he was a Gentile. One might ask, how could one be a prophet and not be of Israel? Well, how could Melchisedek be a high priest of God outside of Abraham.

You are correct. Though a man be a prophet he can still be in the flesh. And can do damage to the people of God. And so in the end he dies with the enemies of God.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Balaam - Wikipedia

has some relevant stuff.

 

[Job]

Balaam...false or true prophet?

I believe God used Balaam to accomplish what needed to be accomplished. His was just a mouthpiece, nothing more. Balaam wasn't a teacher of righteousness. Quite the opposite actually.

Revelation 2
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


From what I understand, fornicators and idolaters will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. That goes double for those who teach such things. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Peter numbers Balaam with those who will be destroyed because their unrighteous ways.


2 Peter 2
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.


The Lord used a lying spirit. Because the Lord used him, does that make the spirit righteous?


2 Chronicles 18
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.


The Lord also used Judas.

The Lord right now is using the iniquity of the world to accomplish what must be accomplished before the return of Christ. I know people don't like hearing that, but it's true.

 

[Stranger]

I believe God used Balaam to accomplish what needed to be accomplished. His was just a mouthpiece, nothing more. Balaam wasn't a teacher of righteousness. Quite the opposite actually.

Revelation 2
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


From what I understand, fornicators and idolaters will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. That goes double for those who teach such things. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Peter numbers Balaam with those who will be destroyed because their unrighteous ways.


2 Peter 2
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.


The Lord used a lying spirit. Because the Lord used him, does that make the spirit righteous?


2 Chronicles 18
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.


The Lord also used Judas.

The Lord right now is using the iniquity of the world to accomplish what must be accomplished before the return of Christ. I know people don't like hearing that, but it's true.

Without a doubt these Scriptures do not speak well of Balaam. But he is called a prophet in (2 Peter 2:16). And he is not called a false prophet either. His great sin was money. Profiting from being a prophet. And he never gave a false prophecy.

And he was 'rebuked' for his iniquity. First by the ass speaking. Later he paid with his life for his being a stumbling block to the nation of Israel.

Does the word 'these' in (2 Peter 2:17) encompass Balaam? Or is it a description of those in (2:10). I think it is a description of those in (2:10). They followed Balaam in his error. This is why the teacher or preacher better be careful, for he will get the greater judgement because he affects more people. I don't believe Balaam was a false prophet but he did teach wrongfully and became a stumbling block to Israel.

In (2 Chron. 18:20-21), the Lord used a lying spirit. But Balaam did not have a lying spirit influencing him. The Lord spoke through Him. But Balaam did teach Balac how to make Israel stumble. And this was his teaching and not God's. I think he still wanted to profit though he knew he could only speak what the Lord says when speaking as a prophet. And that is his great sin.

Concerning Judas, I don't see how that applies. Balaam is called a prophet and speaks the words of God. Judas was always known to be of the devil by God and Christ.

I certainly can see how you and others may feel he is a false prophet or teacher. And perhaps he was. I do lean towards his being a true prophet that allowed his sin to get the best of him and was rebuked and judged and slain by God. But not before he did much damage. Remember too he did not have the Scriptures or God's revelation as Israel had at this time as he was a Gentile outside of Israel.

Stranger

 

[DPMartin]

This man is quite an enigma to me. His story is recorded in (Num. 22-25). His way is recorded in (2 Peter 2:15-16). His doctrine is recorded in (Rev. 2:14). His death is recorded in (Josh. 13:22) After reading all of these sections, what do you think? Was Balaam a false or true prophet? Myself, I am on the fence at this time.

Stranger

if my memory serves he communicated to the Almighty and was true to whatever God told him. so the man in the days of Moses couldn't be anything else but a true prophet. all a prophet does is repeat to the intended receiver, the message told him by God, but a false prophet would lie or tell a message that wasn't of the intended sender such as God, and Balaam didn't do that. he was pressed by the king he was inquiring of God for, what he wanted to hear. actually that king thought to have Balaam appease the Almighty for favor. didn't work did it? because the Almighty isn't appeased.

 

[Job]

Without a doubt these Scriptures do not speak well of Balaam. But he is called a prophet in (2 Peter 2:16). And he is not called a false prophet either. His great sin was money. Profiting from being a prophet. And he never gave a false prophecy.

And he was 'rebuked' for his iniquity. First by the ass speaking. Later he paid with his life for his being a stumbling block to the nation of Israel.

Does the word 'these' in (2 Peter 2:17) encompass Balaam? Or is it a description of those in (2:10). I think it is a description of those in (2:10). They followed Balaam in his error. This is why the teacher or preacher better be careful, for he will get the greater judgement because he affects more people. I don't believe Balaam was a false prophet but he did teach wrongfully and became a stumbling block to Israel.

In (2 Chron. 18:20-21), the Lord used a lying spirit. But Balaam did not have a lying spirit influencing him. The Lord spoke through Him. But Balaam did teach Balac how to make Israel stumble. And this was his teaching and not God's. I think he still wanted to profit though he knew he could only speak what the Lord says when speaking as a prophet. And that is his great sin.

Concerning Judas, I don't see how that applies. Balaam is called a prophet and speaks the words of God. Judas was always known to be of the devil by God and Christ.

I certainly can see how you and others may feel he is a false prophet or teacher. And perhaps he was. I do lean towards his being a true prophet that allowed his sin to get the best of him and was rebuked and judged and slain by God. But not before he did much damage. Remember too he did not have the Scriptures or God's revelation as Israel had at this time as he was a Gentile outside of Israel.

Stranger

What I posted was just my opinion. Since the Lord knew Balaam's weaknesses and desires of the flesh, I don't believe he can seen as a true prophet of God. He was simply a tool to be used to deliver a message. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Helen]

What I posted was just my opinion. Since the Lord knew Balaam's weaknesses and desires of the flesh, I don't believe he can seen as a true prophet of God. He was simply a tool to be used to deliver a message. Again, just my opinion.

Well lets take Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, and any other who have "got very rich" after the way of Baalam. Would you put them in the place of a false teacher etc?
I don't think so. I have a great book called "God's Generals"...most of them in the book started well...they won souls, healed sick...but then they began to believe that it was them that was doing it...and forgot the gift was God's through them...then they took glory and money for themselves ( on the backs of the people)
I believe they will all be held accountable in that day...but, I remember what Jesus said about the pharisees... " don't do as they do, ...but do what they say.."
I have been very blessed and helped by Joyce Meyer over the years..she has had wonderful helpful teaching which inspires ...I am not one to throw the baby out with the bathwater... Do I send her money? Heavens no. I used to 40 years ago when she was still small. The Lord has not removed His anointing from her, she still preaches a good word. Sometimes I will listen if a friend recommends one.
JD Jakes is another...I will listen to him...I don't approve of how they run their ministry...but that is between them and God, not me. As long as someone has a sound word, I will listen.
So...I see Balaam in the same light...he had God's anointing, as did the two prophets in 1 Kings 13. They all all sad to me...what could have been, but wasn't.
We all hope that is not our own epitaph!

My two cents..

 

[Job]

Well lets take Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, and any other who have "got very rich" after the way of Baalam. Would you put them in the place of a false teacher etc?
I don't think so.

Actually I would.

 

[Helen]

Actually I would.

Na I can't go with you there... shall we have a slanging match, or just pass, by saying 'Okay.'

 

[Job]

Na I can't go with you there... shall we have a slanging match, or just pass, by saying 'Okay.'

Ok.

I didn't want to go there either. Not in this thread anyway...

 

[Stranger]

if my memory serves he communicated to the Almighty and was true to whatever God told him. so the man in the days of Moses couldn't be anything else but a true prophet. all a prophet does is repeat to the intended receiver, the message told him by God, but a false prophet would lie or tell a message that wasn't of the intended sender such as God, and Balaam didn't do that. he was pressed by the king he was inquiring of God for, what he wanted to hear. actually that king thought to have Balaam appease the Almighty for favor. didn't work did it? because the Almighty isn't appeased.

Appeasement had nothing to do with what Balak wanted. Balak wanted God to curse Israel.

Stranger

 

[DPMartin]

Appeasement had nothing to do with what Balak wanted. Balak wanted God to curse Israel.

Stranger

and how was he doing that? wasn't he having Balaam do what ever it takes to get what he wanted, over and over again? each time sacrificing more animals. he thought to "appease the gods" so to speak to find favorable response, didn't he?
no different then appeasing a child to get a favorable response.

but the Almighty isn't to be appeased.

 

[bbyrd009]

"oracles" is a really strange concept, that i guess goes along somehow with the calling of good evil and evil good, even if not directly related. Something about relying on the oracle, rather than God? And money always seems to figure in, with oracles not from God.

 

[Stranger]

and how was he doing that? wasn't he having Balaam do what ever it takes to get what he wanted, over and over again? each time sacrificing more animals. he thought to "appease the gods" so to speak to find favorable response, didn't he?
no different then appeasing a child to get a favorable response.

but the Almighty isn't to be appeased.

The Almighty is appeased if you come with the right sacrifice and the right purpose. Balak came with neither. Balaks purpose was to curse Israel. No amount of sacrifice could be given for God to do that.

Balak was childish in attempting to manipulate God. God sees through it all.

Stranger

 

[FHII]

I believe Balaam was a true prophet, just not a good one. The whole thing with Balaam asking God if he could curse Israel was bad. But it worked out although I believe God was ticked off about it. Even after God annointed his ass, God still conversed with Balaam. In the end, Balaam resisted Balak.

Kind of..

I don't have all the answers to this story, but I think more was going on. In Numbers 31 Israel killed him. Yet he refused to curse Israel. There is a different problem here.... Of the same origin.

Balaam and Balak end their meetings in Numbers 24. Look at chapter 25. Despite Balaam refusing to curse Israel (the fact that God didn't want Balaam to curse them suggests he was a true prophet....) Israel still intermingled with Moab. More specifically they worshipped their gods.

Coincidence?

 

[Helen]

@FHII Good post.

Iv'e been waiting for someone to start a thread on 1 Kings 13...and to 'lay out' for us the good, bad, right and wrong of the story there...I have always had mixed feelings about it. Even though not obeying God, it makes me sad...I see unfairness it in....I've never have heard anyone preach on it or really "breakdown" the story in bite sized pieces.
here's hoping

 

[FHII]

@FHII Good post.

Iv'e been waiting for someone to start a thread on 1 Kings 13...and to 'lay out' for us the good, bad, right and wrong of the story there...I have always had mixed feelings about it. Even though not obeying God, it makes me sad...I see unfairness it in....I've never have heard anyone preach on it or really "breakdown" the story in bite sized pieces.
here's hoping

Are you hoping I will? I hope you aren't! I have ideas and thoughts... I have heard about this in teachings. But I am far from fully understanding it.