Baptism! Clean Christians!!! Or Scrubbed Souls!!!

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Grailhunter

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Baptism, a little word with the power of the universe. Beliefs regarding baptism go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

  • Some believe that when someone is baptized it causes miraculous events for the individual that are part of salvation.
  • Some believe it is linked to repentance and thus referred to it as the Baptism of repentance in which the person’s past sins are forgiven.
  • Some believe that the person receives the Holy Spirit in one fashion or another.
  • Some believe that Baptism is in effect, dieing in Christ and a resurrection of sorts, or a metaphorical symbology thereof.
  • Many believe that the process of regeneration occurs here.
  • But at the other end of the spectrum, some believe it has no spiritual significance at all, serving as a public display of obedience or an announcement that they are Christian.

For those that believe that Baptism has spiritual effects there is scriptural support.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 11:16 Peter speaking, Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22:16 Paul said, And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the His name.

Mark 1:8 John the Baptist said, I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 3:3 Speaking of John the Baptist. And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
John 3:5 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter in to the Kingdom of God.”

John 3:22-23 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Can you imagine being baptized by God!

Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Along with the beliefs that in Baptism we die in Christ, the person that emerges from the water as a new person. Meaning, completely and totally a new person, consequently the Trinity having no memory of the old person, their sins, or their poor character. It is the proverbial, instance of starting out with a new slate. This belief has some historical precedence in the early Church, for one, some would wait until they were near death to be baptized, thinking that way their soul would be free of sin when it came time to face judgment. It has been said that Emperor Constantine did this.

There is a psychological side of this because some people have trouble forgiving themselves. I think Paul was one of these. With that person no longer existing a person can better understand that they can move forward with their walk with Christ. There is a possibly of a redemptive quality that goes beyond the norm here. For those that have done horrible things or the unpardonable sin it is like that person never existed, so all is forgiven. Alternatively it denies Satan any venue to accuse you of not being good enough to be a Christian. Thoughts and beliefs vary on this.

Some of those that believe that Baptism has no spiritual effect have concerns that if Baptism forgives, why did Christ need to die on the Cross? The explanation for this may go back to John the Baptist, a relative, the cousin of Christ. Their association is a topic in itself. But John probably understood the plan and put it in the most simplest of words, as he was baptizing in the Jordan.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (Notice the exclamation point) Spoiler alert! Christ would never answer the question of where John got the authority to forgive sins. The answer of course, it came from God. Baptism or ritual bathing is not unique to Christianity, and it is always about cleansing. But the Christian baptism is spiritual. Even before the crucifixion God the Father had given Christ all authority over judgment and sin. Matthew 2:5, 28:18-20, Mark 2:5, John 3:35, 5:22-27, 13:3 Luke 7:48 In this scenario baptism removed an individual’s sins from their soul and any sin committed after baptism is between the individual and Christ. Of course for those that believe in Original Sin, it could also be removed during baptism.

After Christ’s death on the cross the entire process and effects of Salvation come into play, Justification, Substitution, Redemption, Propitiation, Reconciliation, Adoption, Grace, and Sanctification.

Justification: Romans 3:22-30, 4:25, 5:1 5:9, 5:16-18, 8:30-34
Substitution: Matthew 20:28 Mark 10:45
Redemption: Matthew 13:44, 1st Timothy 2:6, Hebrews 9:12, Titus 2:14
Propitiation: 1st John 2:2, Romans 3:25
Reconciliation: Romans 5:10, 2nd Corinthians 5:19-21
Adoption: Roman: 8:14-17 Galatians 4:1-5
Grace: The word grace occurs 122 times in the NT and the phrase grace of God occurs dozens of times, so I will be a little selective to saving grace. Acts 15:11 Romans 3:24, 5:2, 5:17, 5:20-21, 2nd Corinthians 4:14, Ephesians 1:7, 2:8, Titus 2:11, 3:7, Hebrews 4:16
Sanctification: Romans 7:6 Hebrews 10:10, 1st Peter 1:16, 1st John 3:1-3, Ephesians 5:26-27, Jude 24:25

At Christ’s death the veil in the Temple was ripped in two, a physical and symbolic meaning that there is no longer anything between us and God. Christ sacrificial death brought an end for the need of sacrifices. His death brought an end to the system of sin and tally, effectively breaking the slate. From there on all sins would be between us and Christ and He had been given authority to judge and forgive the sins of the family of God.

The more complicated aspect of this is the properties of sin that changed. Christ’s Grace presents us blameless before God the Father who otherwise would have zero tolerance to anything but sinlessness. This is one of the reasons that heaven was not an option for the Jews in the Old Testament. We are now in the family of God. To illustrate this, if your son steals a hundred dollars from a bank, that is a federal offense and prison time is in his future. If he steals a hundred dollars from you, it is between you and your son.

I am sure I have missed some perspective because beliefs vary so much. For those that believe it has no spiritual significance, as in a public display, that is their right to believe that, but spirituality they are going to have some difficulties. And also you get into; does it matter what the baptizer or the person being baptized believes? If baptism is actually spiritual, what happens during baptism?
The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

Pointing out again that Christianity did not invent baptism in general, the Jews performed it as a bath for religious cleaning and it appear that pouring of water over the head for baptism was sometimes practices by the early church. So any and all of it are open for discussion…enjoy.
 
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Taken

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-----------------------*---------------------
Baptism of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with water, ceremonies, certificates...and everything to with the miraculous works thee Lord God does WITHIN a man, unseen by a mans eyes.

The Mystery is the Ability for thee Lord God to MAKE "the changes" within a man, WHILE the man is still physically alive in his Corrupt flesh.

The Good News is Gods Records dictate His works within a man ARE Accomplished, even though it is yet unseen by a mans earthly eyes.

The Comfort for such a man is Knowing he is Prepared, for any day, any time, the Lord shall Redeem UP to Him that which is His to Claim.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Grailhunter

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-----------------------*---------------------
Baptism of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with water, ceremonies, certificates...and everything to with the miraculous works thee Lord God does WITHIN a man, unseen by a mans eyes.

The Mystery is the Ability for thee Lord God to MAKE "the changes" within a man, WHILE the man is still physically alive in his Corrupt flesh.

The Good News is Gods Records dictate His works within a man ARE Accomplished, even though it is yet unseen by a mans earthly eyes.

The Comfort for such a man is Knowing he is Prepared, for any day, any time, the Lord shall Redeem UP to Him that which is His to Claim.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thank you...not being critical...What do you think occurs during Baptism? Looking for ideas, comments, and opinions.
 

Taken

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Thank you...not being critical...What do you think occurs during Baptism? Looking for ideas, comments, and opinions.

First I would say there is a Preparation...
That preparation being:
The persons part...hearing and learning ABOUT God and thee Lord Jesus.
That also preparation being;
Gods part...of giving that persons "natural spirit in the persons heart"...measures of faith.

As this continues...
Knowledge is increased in the person.
Faith from God is increased.

(Noting at any time the person can...
Reject the knowledge, stop continuing, and is called having fallen from faith...since the increase of faith from God stops.)

A person who continues....comes to a point, he is prepared TO;
Call on the Lord,
Repent for having NOT believed (as we are all naturally born IN Sin)
Make a Heartfelt Confession to the Lord of Belief in God and in the Lord Jesus.

From there...the Lord responds...
With Forgiveness given to the person.
Accepts the person as Crucified with Christ.
Washes their {dead} body with Christ's Blood
Sanctifies their {dead} body
Justifies their {dead} body
The Lambs Book of Life records their Name.
Keeps their {dead} body IN Christ
Restores the persons soul
Cuts off (circumcision) of the persons old heart
Gives the person a new heart
Enters the person via Gods Spirit
Covers their natural Sin, with His Light
God no longer sees the mans sin or remembers it.
Plants His SEED, in the persons new heart
Gods SEED births the person a new spirit
Gods Spirit remains in the persons new heart
Gods Spirit to the mans new spirit are PREPARED for Spiritual communication.
The person now Lives in Christ Jesus' Living risen body.
The person is now a MEMBER of Christ's Church.
The person is then privy to Gods Understanding of His Own Word.
The person is now PREPARED, for the Lords Redemption, in the day the Lord Calls up the physical body of that person, (above the face of the earth to the clouds), and that persons physical body is changed as it rises Up...Changes to UNcorrupted, Changes to Immortal, Changes to Glorified.
That person CAN thereafter SEE their Lord God, as HE IS.
That person IS Prepared to inhabit Jesus' earthly Kingdom, encompassed with Jerusalem, and the land described as Abrahams Land inheritance...
Which is an inheritance TO EVERY person WHO has received the Seed of God.
That person CAN NEVER AGAIN Commit Sin Against God.
That person IS given the title, of "son of God". And thee Lord God Almighty is forever, their God.

Gods desires for mankind is so small, and His Gracious Offering of Gifts are so large....
Some reach out and ACCEPT His Offerings...
Many don't.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Grailhunter

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First I would say there is a Preparation...
That preparation being:
The persons part...hearing and learning ABOUT God and thee Lord Jesus.
That also preparation being;
Gods part...of giving that persons "natural spirit in the persons heart"...measures of faith.

As this continues...
Knowledge is increased in the person.
Faith from God is increased.

(Noting at any time the person can...
Reject the knowledge, stop continuing, and is called having fallen from faith...since the increase of faith from God stops.)

A person who continues....comes to a point, he is prepared TO;
Call on the Lord,
Repent for having NOT believed (as we are all naturally born IN Sin)
Make a Heartfelt Confession to the Lord of Belief in God and in the Lord Jesus.

From there...the Lord responds...
With Forgiveness given to the person.
Accepts the person as Crucified with Christ.
Washes their {dead} body with Christ's Blood
Sanctifies their {dead} body
Justifies their {dead} body
The Lambs Book of Life records their Name.
Keeps their {dead} body IN Christ
Restores the persons soul
Cuts off (circumcision) of the persons old heart
Gives the person a new heart
Enters the person via Gods Spirit
Covers their natural Sin, with His Light
God no longer sees the mans sin or remembers it.
Plants His SEED, in the persons new heart
Gods SEED births the person a new spirit
Gods Spirit remains in the persons new heart
Gods Spirit to the mans new spirit are PREPARED for Spiritual communication.
The person now Lives in Christ Jesus' Living risen body.
The person is now a MEMBER of Christ's Church.
The person is then privy to Gods Understanding of His Own Word.
The person is now PREPARED, for the Lords Redemption, in the day the Lord Calls up the physical body of that person, (above the face of the earth to the clouds), and that persons physical body is changed as it rises Up...Changes to UNcorrupted, Changes to Immortal, Changes to Glorified.
That person CAN thereafter SEE their Lord God, as HE IS.
That person IS Prepared to inhabit Jesus' earthly Kingdom, encompassed with Jerusalem, and the land described as Abrahams Land inheritance...
Which is an inheritance TO EVERY person WHO has received the Seed of God.
That person CAN NEVER AGAIN Commit Sin Against God.
That person IS given the title, of "son of God". And thee Lord God Almighty is forever, their God.

Gods desires for mankind is so small, and His Gracious Offering of Gifts are so large....
Some reach out and ACCEPT His Offerings...
Many don't.

Glory to God,
Taken

Now that is what I call an answer! Thank you!
 
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justbyfaith

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Baptism is not a removal of the filth of the flesh (1 Peter 3:21); but it does wash away sins (Acts of the Apostles 22:16).
 

Hisman

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..A testimony to the devil and his hordes that we are no longer 'of this world' but have moved into a new kingdom, where we are now ambassadors of Christ with immunity to the devils rules.

When challenged by him we can point back to the old body left under the water and say with authority, -" I am dead and my new life is hid with Christ in God", so flee from me, you have no foothold here.
 

Grailhunter

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..A testimony to the devil and his hordes that we are no longer 'of this world' but have moved into a new kingdom, where we are now ambassadors of Christ with immunity to the devils rules.

When challenged by him we can point back to the old body left under the water and say with authority, -" I am dead and my new life is hid with Christ in God", so flee from me, you have no foothold here.

Thanks you....good stuff.
 

justbyfaith

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Hey expand upon that a little.
Being baptized isn't the same thing as taking a bath...it is not for the purpose of physical washing/cleanliness.

1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It has the effect of washing away sins...a spiritual washing on the inside.

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It should be clear from the first verse that baptism has the power to save; in the 2nd verse we see that this is accomplished through the washing away of sins.
 

Grailhunter

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Being baptized isn't the same thing as taking a bath...it is not for the purpose of physical washing/cleanliness.

1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It has the effect of washing away sins...a spiritual washing on the inside.

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It should be clear from the first verse that baptism has the power to save; in the 2nd verse we see that this is accomplished through the washing away of sins.

Good scriptures. Thank you.