Baptism for Salvation

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rockytopva

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Is a person saved that has not been baptised?

Jesus told the thief on the cross that "This day you will be with me in paradise!" - Luke 23:43

What was the condition of his salvation?

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

Now after we have been saved we have the responsibility to grow as Christians, so communion, baptism, and Christian service should be expected as we mature.
 
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Butch5

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Is a person saved that has not been baptised?

It's not a simple yes or no answer. Jesus said he who believes and is baptized "Shall" be saved. He was speaking in the future tense. Contrary to popular belief, salvation is not a one time event, it is a continuing process. The Scriptures speak of salvation in three tenses, you have been saved, you are being saved, and you shall be saved. when we speak of being saved, past tense, we are actually referring to the time when we decided to follow Christ. Technically, at this point our salvation is not complete. We have entered into a relationship with God through Christ. That relationship requires that we be obedient to Christ's commands, of which baptism is one. God can save anyone he chooses to save, however, He promised to save the one who believes and is baptized, He didn't promise to save the one who believes but isn't baptized. If person chooses to follow Christ but is killed before they can be baptized, it is God's decision whether or not to save them. However, the one who can be baptized and refuses is simply not obeying Christ's command. Hope this helps.
 

Butch5

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Jesus told the thief on the cross that "This day you will be with me in paradise!" - Luke 23:43

What was the condition of his salvation?

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

Now after we have been saved we have the responsibility to grow as Christians, so communion, baptism, and Christian service should be expected as we mature.

The thief did believe, however, the New Covenant had not yet been instituted.
 

aspen

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It's not a simple yes or no answer. Jesus said he who believes and is baptized "Shall" be saved. He was speaking in the future tense. Contrary to popular belief, salvation is not a one time event, it is a continuing process. The Scriptures speak of salvation in three tenses, you have been saved, you are being saved, and you shall be saved. when we speak of being saved, past tense, we are actually referring to the time when we decided to follow Christ. Technically, at this point our salvation is not complete. We have entered into a relationship with God through Christ. That relationship requires that we be obedient to Christ's commands, of which baptism is one. God can save anyone he chooses to save, however, He promised to save the one who believes and is baptized, He didn't promise to save the one who believes but isn't baptized. If person chooses to follow Christ but is killed before they can be baptized, it is God's decision whether or not to save them. However, the one who can be baptized and refuses is simply not obeying Christ's command. Hope this helps.

I totally agree
 

Darwin

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I respectfully disagree.

Ephesians 1:13,14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory.
 

Butch5

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I respectfully disagree.

Ephesians 1:13,14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory.

I don't know what Version you posted, but the word Guarantee is not in the original language.
 

rockytopva

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I don't know what Version you posted, but the word Guarantee is not in the original language.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.- Luke 12:47, 48, 49


 

Butch5

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And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.- Luke 12:47, 48, 49

I'm not following you.
 

rockytopva

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I'm not following you.

The thief on the cross was not baptized and entered into heaven. Paul told the jailor that if they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ they shall be saved and their house (Acts 16:30, 31, 32). If the thief would have survived he would have been responsible for being baptized, taking communion, producing fruit, etc. Same with the jailor, he would be accountable for Christian growth as a lifelong project.

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. - Luke 9:23

So the thief on the cross was less accountable then we.
 

Butch5

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The thief on the cross was not baptized and entered into heaven. Paul told the jailor that if they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ they shall be saved and their house (Acts 16:30, 31, 32). If the thief would have survived he would have been responsible for being baptized, taking communion, producing fruit, etc. Same with the jailor, he would be accountable for Christian growth as a lifelong project.

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. - Luke 9:23

So the thief on the cross was less accountable then we.

OK, now I understand what you meant, yes, I agree.
 

Darwin

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I'm sorry, The NIV use both those words. It's true though that the original texts didn't have those words of course but the meaning.
NASB

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
 

aspen

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I think it is legalistic to demand that people need to be baptized to go to Heaven - as if the act has some kind of power in and of itself. The fact is we are supposed to be baptized - are there legitimate reasons why it doesn't happen? YES! The Law was make for us.....we were not made for the Law. It is wrong to think of Baptism as a qualifier and God as so petty as to disqualify people based on baptism. Now, knowing that baptism is justification, we also know it is important - if you turn down the chance to be baptized or simply decide it is not important; you are disobeying God, which is a grave sin.
 

Duckybill

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And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.- Luke 12:47, 48, 49
Very good point. Someone can be saved and not know he should be baptized, yet. You hit the 'nail' on the head.

 

Butch5

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I'm sorry, The NIV use both those words. It's true though that the original texts didn't have those words of course but the meaning.
NASB

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

That's different, the KJV uses the word "earnest" which is a down payment. If you put a down payment on something you are holding it with the intent to purchase it, however, that does not mean that the purchase is guaranteed. For instance, If one was to put a down payment on a house and later found out that the house was infested with termites they most like would not purchase the house. The seal marks the believer as being approved of God, the seal can , however, be broken.

I think it is legalistic to demand that people need to be baptized to go to Heaven - as if the act has some kind of power in and of itself. The fact is we are supposed to be baptized - are there legitimate reasons why it doesn't happen? YES! The Law was make for us.....we were not made for the Law. It is wrong to think of Baptism as a qualifier and God as so petty as to disqualify people based on baptism. Now, knowing that baptism is justification, we also know it is important - if you turn down the chance to be baptized or simply decide it is not important; you are disobeying God, which is a grave sin.

Paul ties baptism directly to one's participation in the resurrection. Again, God can save anyone, anyway He chooses to. The only promised way is to believe and be baptized according to Jesus.
 

Rach1370

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Baptism is the outward showing of an inward change. Do we need to be baptised to show that we have a new heart in Christ? No...but it is a wonderful thing for both our new life and the understanding of others that we step up and declare ourselves saved.
 

Butch5

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Baptism is the outward showing of an inward change. Do we need to be baptised to show that we have a new heart in Christ? No...but it is a wonderful thing for both our new life and the understanding of others that we step up and declare ourselves saved.

Can you show where Scripture teaches that? What I see in Scripture is that baptism is for the remission of sins. I don't see anything about an outard showing.
 

Duckybill

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Paul ties baptism directly to one's participation in the resurrection. Again, God can save anyone, anyway He chooses to. The only promised way is to believe and be baptized according to Jesus.
Not so. MANY have been saved before being baptized. I mean really, why would someone be baptized before being saved???

Romans 10:9-10 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [sup]10 [/sup]For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.