Baptism in water vs Baptism in Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Shy, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Shy

    Shy New Member

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    As many of us know, the baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him. Baptism in Holy Spirit, however, is different.

    John the Baptist said:
    Seems very easy, right? But in Ephesians there's one more thing.
    I assume that "one baptism" is the one in Holy Spirit? Let's not forget that when Jesus came out from the water, He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

    So how does one get baptized in Holy Spirit? Someone who is Pentecostal told me that someone has to place hands on you and speak in tongues, since speaking in tongues is a testimony of Holy Spirit working.

    Someone else told me there are three baptisms. Knowing I'm yet a newborn, this is quite confusing for me, so I would appreciate some further explanation on this. ^_^
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    Well... This is how I would explain it...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5igsdhEIiFk
     
  3. Gabrielle A

    Gabrielle A Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Hi Elizy!


    I am a Trinity believing Pentecostal and I do not believe that speaking in tongues is the only outworking manifestation of the Holy Spirit's presence in you. If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit will then come and dwell in you. If you feel that you have not received the Holy Spirit yet, Just ask in prayer

    Luke 11:13
    If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

    Bless you!!! :)
     
  4. Shy

    Shy New Member

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    Ah, I guess this is what I wanted to know. Yes, Jesus is my Savior and Lord, so I was a bit confused about this whole subject. The baptism in Holy Spirit seems to be very controversial. I attend a Baptist church, and they believe you're already baptized in Holy Spirit when accepting Jesus.

    But then what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit? What does it mean "Baptized with Holy Spirit and the fire"?
     
  5. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist New Member

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    The Bible mentions three Christian baptisms
    [1]The Spirit baptising us into the body of Christ...1 Cor 12: 12.
    This is the rebirth.

    [2]Baptism in water.. Acts 8: 36--38.
    This is an outward sign, [Witness] of an ALREADY inward experience, It si one's identification with Jesus.

    [3]The Baptism in the Holy Spirit..Matt 3: 11. Acts 1: 4--5.
    The Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues..Every recording of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost in the Bible, They spoke in tongues.
    Acts 2: 4..
    Acts 8: 17--21.The Greek meaning for, "Matter", In v21. Is "Tongue, Language, dialect", They had the same experience
    as those in Acts 2: 4..
    Acts 9: 17. We know Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.
    Acts 10: 44--46.
    Acts 19: 6.
    These are the onle Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, And they all spoke in tongues.
     
  6. Shy

    Shy New Member

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    So my assumption is slightly right. Unless you speak in tongues, you are not baptized in Holy Spirit, correct?
     
  7. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist New Member

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    One is born of the Spirit when they get saved, But the baptism in the Holy Ghost is a seperate experience.
    Some of the disciples were born again when Jesus breathed the Spirit into them in Jn 20: 22..
    [[We know Peter was, Because one of the words he used for "Love" In Jn 21: 15--17, Is "Agape", The love of God,
    You cannot have the love of God unless you are born again of the Spirit]].
    But they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until Acts 2: 4.

    The disciples in Acts 8: 14 were saved,born of the Spirit, But they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until the Apostles laid their hands on them. V 15--17.

    The Apostel Paul was saved, Acts 9: 6, But he wasn't baptised in the Holy Ghost until Ananias laid his hands on Paul three days later. V9--17.

    As for the Holy Ghost and FIRE, The original greek text meanig for "Fire", Is ,
    "The Hoiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistant with Holiness"....The baptism in the Holy Ghost give extra power to live a holy life.

    As for the gifts of the Spirit..They fall into three groups.
    Group [1] The revelation gifts.
    The word of wisdom, The word of knowledge and the descerning of Spirits.
    These all releal something.

    Group [2] The insperation gifts.
    Prohpecy, Tongues and the interpretation of tongues.
    These al say something.

    Group [3] The power gifts]
    Special faith, The gifts of healings and the working of miracles.
    These all do something.

    God wants to reveal something to the Church and through the Church.
    Say something to the Church and through the Church....And
    Do something for the Church and through the Church.
     
  8. Shy

    Shy New Member

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    I personally did not understand anything from it. Is it not Jesus that baptizes us with Holy Spirit? Then how to be baptized in Holy Spirit?
     
  9. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist New Member

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    If one is baptised in the Holy Ghost, They can And should speak in tongues, Because God has given eight operations of tongues to the Church, And they are all important.
    As I said, Every Biblical account of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, They ALL spoke in tongues.
    Any born again Christian can recieve the baptism in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues,anytime thet release their faith.

    Jesus does baptise us with the Holy Ghost, But we have to ask Him for it. Lk 11: 11--13.
    And believe, Acts 11: 16--17.
    Evey gift from God has to be received by faith.
     
  10. Shy

    Shy New Member

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    Speaking in tongues is really controversial. In these modern times, it is not paid attention to it this much as it was before; one can always fake it and you won't know.

    Then again, what are those "tongues"?

    I believe and desire to be baptized in Holy Spirit, yet nothing has happened. I saw a topic on another forum listing some of the gifts of Holy Spirit, is it not necessarily tongues.
     
  11. logabe

    logabe New Member

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    Shy... I was a Baptist also and I had the same questions that
    you are asking. I had some wonderful friends in the Baptist
    Church and still do that tells me I already had the Holy Spirit.

    That was true to a certain extent, but I wanted more, so I ask
    God, and studied the scriptures to see if I was being told the
    whole truth. These Christians are very good people, but God
    will limit their understanding according to their desire to know
    him in a greater way. God will reward you with understanding
    if you diligently seek Him. Heb. 11:6 says,

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please
    him: for he that cometh to God must believe
    that he is , and that he is a rewarder of them
    that diligently seek him.

    When I believed on the Lord, I had an experience I had never
    had before in my life. It was such a refreshing and I knew that
    God truly loved me. The yoke of burden was lifted off of my
    shoulders and I was a new creature in Christ Jesus. But God
    began to deal with me about the same issues that you are
    curious about. So I went to the pastors and they told me I had
    everything when I believed on the Lord.

    I wasn't satisfied... so I diligently began to seek the Lord through
    the scriptures. What I learned was I had experienced my Passover
    feast when the Lord washed me one night in a classroom that they
    were using to have services for the college kids on campus.

    These college kids were telling me I could receive the baptism of the
    Holy Spirit. Well, no one told me that I needed something else where
    I was attending church. For a couple months I was very confused, but
    I was determined to understand this because I thought it was worth
    taking the time so I could help others.

    Faith comes by hearing the word. I continually read the scriptures about
    people receiving the Holy Ghost and six months after having a Passover
    experience, it happened. I was asking God in prayer one morning to fill
    me with the Holy Ghost and suddenly my belly became very warm and I
    had a feeling of peace and joy that was out of this world. The warm and
    convincing feeling began to flow upward into my mouth. My lips began to
    quiver and my tongue began to speak in a language that I didn't know.

    It scared me! I had no control of what was going on and the only thing I
    knew to do was run. I jumped up and grabbed my mouth and run out of
    the church and got in my car and left. I was terrified, because it was so
    foreign. It was different and I just didn't feel comfortable not having
    control over it.

    I ask God, what was that? He spoke to my spirit and said, I thought you
    wanted the Holy Ghost. When I heard that, I began to cry. I knew at that
    moment it was real and God had baptised me in the Holy Ghost. When I
    realized what God had just done, I ask Him to continue filling me and He
    did.

    In essense, Jesus told His disciples to go to Jerusalem and they would
    receive POWER after the Holy Ghost came upon them. Acts 1:8.

    8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost
    is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me
    both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
    and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    The purpose of the Holy Ghost or your Pentecost experience, is to make
    you a true witness. In other words, you will have the ability to speak to
    the people the true words and understanding of the scriptures. John 14:
    26 says,

    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom
    the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all
    things, and bring all things to your remembrance ,
    whatsoever I have said unto you.

    Jesus spoke to his disciples and told them that the Spirit of Truth was with
    them because they believed. When you have a Passover experience the
    Holy Ghost is with you. But when you have a Pentecostal experience, the
    Holy Ghost is in you. John 14:17 says,

    17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
    receive , because it seeth him not, neither knoweth
    him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and
    shall be in you.

    What a God! What a Plan!

    Logabe





     
  12. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    It's an assumption all right, find some verses that say this is evidence of the HS. That we should all expect to all be gifted with tongues.
    I might add that I have never seen nor heard testimony of tongues in my life as described in Acts 2.

    Do you have some verses that we can look at that support your "bolded statement above"

    As well as 8 operations of tongues to the church?


    This presumption of tongues is already well outside the teachings of the Apostles
     
  13. Shy

    Shy New Member

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    Logabe, your post and experience has lifted me up and given me the desire to seek more than I am seeking now. I appreciate your reply.

    Faith.. is what I need. It's somewhat a hard concept to grasp yet I want it. I need it. But what could be stopping me from believing?
     
  14. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    Shy, I would recommend you ask others for scriptural evidence, and prayerfully study the word to find out what is being taught is supported by scripture.

    Many are going to tell you things the Apostles never said or implied. It up to you to discover the truth.


    Really and where is this mentioned that everyone speaks in tongues?
     
  15. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist New Member

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    I don't know why tongues are so controversial tpday, But you are right, a lot of people don't know much about tongues.
    A person who is filled with the Holy Ghost knows it, They will also know if anyone is faking tongues, That is one of the reasons for the revelation gifts, [To reveal who is truely speaking in a God given tongue, And who isn't].

    One of the gifts of the Spirit is tongues, 1 Cor 12: 10., These are divers kinds of tongues, [In other words they are different to the other tongues we receive]. The tongues i 1 Cor 12: 10 are for interpretation., They are not the tongues one receives at their baptism in the Holy Ghost.

    You receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost By Faith, The moment you receive the Holy Ghost by faith,He will give you the words, to speak, Acts 2: 4. It might be just one ot two sylables, But you have to speak them out IN FAITH, Acts 2: 4 says, "They spoke".
    as the Spirit gave them the utterance, The moment God know you have the faith to receive, The Holy Ghost will give you the utterance..Then speak out..IN FAITH.


    Here are some manifestations of tongues.

    [1]Tongues that are a foreign language...Act 2: 4--11.
    God can and will use these tongues through any of His people whenever there is a need.

    [2]Tongues that are for interpretation, 1 Cor 12: 10.
    These are the tongues that Paul said not every of will have, 1 Cor 12: 30.

    [3]Tongues that only God can understand, 1 Cor 14: 2..
    These are mysteries, A mystery is a hidden secret, Hidden for us NOT FROM US.

    [4]Tongues that edify us [build us up]. 1 Cor 14: 4. Jude 20.

    [5]Tongues that are our Spirit praying, 1 Cor 14: 14--15.

    [6]Tongues that are for praise and worshiping God in songs, 1 Cor 14: 15--17.

    [7] Tongues of Angels, 1 Cor 13: 1.
    We can speak to God in the Angelic language.

    [8]Tongues that the Spirit used to interceed for us, Rom 8: 26--28.
    As the Spirit interceeds for us,Or throug us for others, Then all things work together for our good..V28.

    The meaning of, "Cannot be uttered" V26, Means cannot be spoken in our native language, But the Spirit needs our voice to interceed through us and for us.

    Those of us who have experienced the Holy Spirit interceeding for us, Know when He takes over our tongues.

    Jesus said the believer shall speak in tongues, Mk 16: 17,..So every believer can and should speak in tongues once they have been baptised in the Holy Ghost.

    Jesus said the believer SHALL speak in tongues,, Mk 16: 17.
    And that's good enough for me..
    You can make your wrong assumptions if you want to, But I will believe what the Bible says.

    If you read my earlier post, You would know where the Bible says those who were baptised in the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues.

    Here are the scriptures.

    The Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues..Every recording of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost in the Bible, They spoke in tongues.

    Acts 2: 4..

    Acts 8: 17--21.The Greek meaning for, "Matter", In v21. Is "Tongue, Language, dialect", They had the same experience

    as those in Acts 2: 4..

    Acts 9: 17. We know Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

    Acts 10: 44--46.

    Acts 19: 6.

    These are the onle Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, And they all spoke in tongues.
     
  16. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    I do, because its become a religion.
    Tongues have become the keystone on which their faith rest.

    Shy, should Google and study up on the Mark 16, 9-20 the controversy.

    I have found that the bible has error correcting attributes, and I find no other place in scripture That supports the speaking in tongues controversy. Because so many manuscripts don't include Marks closing verses and I don't find support for the statement else where, I have to ponder the validity. I also notice the only denomination that references this verse is the MUST speak in tongues Christians. Simulare to Catholics referencing Matthew 16:18 It also has become the keystone on which the RCC rest.
     
  17. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist New Member

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    If you are born again, You have faith, Rom 12: 3.
    Faith is so simple, It is acting as though God has told you the truth,
    If someone you know and trust, tells you they are going to give you £100, And put it on a table, and said take it, You would have no doubts and take it with thanks.
    How much more should we trust God who cannot lie.
    Faith is so simple, It just believes what God says in the Bible, And receives the blessings.

    Some people are waiting for God to baptised them in the Holy Ghost, Because Jesus said, Wait for the promise" Acts 1: 4.
    But the promise was given, Acts 2: 1--4.
    Now Peter said The Holy Ghost is a gift, Acts 2: 38. The gift has already been given, And we receive it by simple faith.

    The earliest and most importandt manuscripts included all of Mk 16.
    Plus Church history proves that there has always been people speaking in tongues.
     
  18. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    If faith is simple as it is, why add your flavor of speaking in tongues to it?


    And speaking in tongues is speaking in another language and people hearing and preconceive in their own tongue, Acts 2
    Is this what you do? As well as your place of worship?
    Or do you simple speak in groanings of the spirit as described in Romans 8:26
     
  19. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist New Member

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    Because I believe in speaking in tongues and speak in tongues by faith.
     
  20. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    Are you or anyone else able to stand before any people of the world and speak in tongues and they understand? as was done in Acts chapter 2?


    If not then, then your mouth has spoken of something your faith can't support or produce.