Believing God

[H. Richard]

There is no salvation without believing God. When Adam and Eve were in the garden, their sin was not believing God when He said not to eat of the tree. Satan told them that it was to their benefit to eat of the tree. Who did they believe, God or Satan?

When the Jews got to the gateway city of the promised land EX. 23:20-28, God told them to go into the city and He would drive the people there out with Hornets. Did they believe God and go in? No they sent in spies to check it out and they said they could not go in. Who did they believe, man or God? God made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years.

Jesus came into Israel with signs and wonders showing He was sent from God. Did the nation of Israel believe Him or did they believe the men of religion? Those of religion killed Him.

Jesus gave Paul a hidden message of salvation by what He (GOD) accomplished on the cross. His work paid for the sins of all mankind and that it is a gift to mankind. But is seems that many of those who claim to be Christians don’t really believe salvation can be free. They believe it has to be by their works. In other words they don’t really believe that a person can be saved by faith in what God has accomplished on the cross but a person has to stop sinning by their efforts to not sin in the flesh. They claim that they have been given the power to stop sin in the flesh but they do not say much, if any thing, about the work God accomplished on the cross to save them.

But what about believing in what God did on the cross? Do they believe the message that Jesus gave Paul about a hidden gospel that saves the ungodly or do they believe the message of sinless perfection in the flesh?

I am completely convinced that Satan wants to make people believe in their own works and religions for salvation rather than place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross. If I am to boast it will be boasting about the work of Jesus on the cross for mankind.

 

[Episkopos]

There is no salvation without believing God. When Adam and Eve were in the garden, their sin was not believing God when He said not to eat of the tree. Satan told them that it was to their benefit to eat of the tree. Who did they believe, God or Satan?

When the Jews got to the gateway city of the promised land EX. 23:20-28, God told them to go into the city and He would drive the people there out with Hornets. Did they believe God and go in? No they sent in spies to check it out and they said they could not go in. Who did they believe, man or God? God made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years.

Jesus came into Israel with signs and wonders showing He was sent from God. Did the nation of Israel believe Him or did they believe the men of religion? Those of religion killed Him.

Jesus gave Paul a hidden message of salvation by what He (GOD) accomplished on the cross. His work paid for the sins of all mankind and that it is a gift to mankind. But is seems that many of those who claim to be Christians don’t really believe salvation can be free. They believe it has to be by their works. In other words they don’t really believe that a person can be saved by faith in what God has accomplished on the cross but a person has to stop sinning by their efforts to not sin in the flesh. They claim that they have been given the power to stop sin in the flesh but they do not say much, if any thing, about the work God accomplished on the cross to save them.

But what about believing in what God did on the cross? Do they believe the message that Jesus gave Paul about a hidden gospel that saves the ungodly or do they believe the message of sinless perfection in the flesh?

I am completely convinced that Satan wants to make people believe in their own works and religions for salvation rather than place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross. If I am to boast it will be boasting about the work of Jesus on the cross for mankind.

Same dead horse being beaten...hyper-grace fiction. For those who enjoy fiction, enjoy the thread.

 

[Nancy]

There is no salvation without believing God. When Adam and Eve were in the garden, their sin was not believing God when He said not to eat of the tree. Satan told them that it was to their benefit to eat of the tree. Who did they believe, God or Satan?

When the Jews got to the gateway city of the promised land EX. 23:20-28, God told them to go into the city and He would drive the people there out with Hornets. Did they believe God and go in? No they sent in spies to check it out and they said they could not go in. Who did they believe, man or God? God made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years.

Jesus came into Israel with signs and wonders showing He was sent from God. Did the nation of Israel believe Him or did they believe the men of religion? Those of religion killed Him.

Jesus gave Paul a hidden message of salvation by what He (GOD) accomplished on the cross. His work paid for the sins of all mankind and that it is a gift to mankind. But is seems that many of those who claim to be Christians don’t really believe salvation can be free. They believe it has to be by their works. In other words they don’t really believe that a person can be saved by faith in what God has accomplished on the cross but a person has to stop sinning by their efforts to not sin in the flesh. They claim that they have been given the power to stop sin in the flesh but they do not say much, if any thing, about the work God accomplished on the cross to save them.

But what about believing in what God did on the cross? Do they believe the message that Jesus gave Paul about a hidden gospel that saves the ungodly or do they believe the message of sinless perfection in the flesh?

I am completely convinced that Satan wants to make people believe in their own works and religions for salvation rather than place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross. If I am to boast it will be boasting about the work of Jesus on the cross for mankind.

Good post @H. Richard !
Yes, I see many downplaying the grace of God. To me, the grace of God is The Gospel...The Good News! Should we not celebrate, thank, worship and praise Him for such a grace as His? The Jews of that day couldn't accept it either
So, if anything is "hyper" anything Epi, IMHO it is His Grace
If some want to look at this as a "license" to sin then, I would simply question the so called Christian who WANT'S to sin's salvation...a true follower of Christ does not WANT to sin.

 

[Episkopos]

Good post @H. Richard !
Yes, I see many downplaying the grace of God. To me, the grace of God is The Gospel...The Good News! Should we not celebrate, thank, worship and praise Him for such a grace as His? The Jews of that day couldn't accept it either
So, if anything is "hyper" anything Epi, IMHO it is His Grace
If some want to look at this as a "license" to sin then, I would simply question the so called Christian who WANT'S to sin's salvation...a true follower of Christ does not WANT to sin.

But that's still Romans 7.....not wanting to sin...but still being too weak in the flesh. That's not grace yet. That comes in Romans 8 whereby the flesh is overcome by the law of the Spirit.

Now THAT's grace.

 

[H. Richard]

Same dead horse being beaten...hyper-grace fiction. For those who enjoy fiction, enjoy the thread.

why do you do this? It certainly is not showing love. You say you have the power to not sin and yet your snake venom (hate for me) is shown on all your replies on every thread I post. Do you really think God sees you as not sinning?

One thing for sure, what you are doing is certainly not Christian. But of course you are just as the Pharisees were, you think what you do is not sinful. You can assassinate my character all you want it doesn't bother me. You will have to answer for it to God.

Aren't you beating your same dead horse? What is so revealing about you is that you are blind to what you are doing.

 

[Episkopos]

why do you do this? It certainly is not showing love. You say you have the power to not sin and yet your snake venom (hate for me) is shown on all your replies on every thread I post. Do you really think God sees you as not sinning?

One thing for sure, what you are doing is certainly not Christian. But of course you are just as the Pharisees were, you think what you do is not sinful. You can assassinate my character all you want it doesn't bother me. You will have to answer for it to God.

Aren't you beating your same dead horse? What is so revealing about you is that you are blind to what you are doing.

My snake venom...? Character assasination??? And I am blind to what I'm doing?

The world is upside down...

You will get half of the people or so agreeing with cheap grace...because it's the wide road that's easy. But don't confuse this with the narrow way that leads to life.

 

[H. Richard]

But that's still Romans 7.....not wanting to sin...but still being too weak in the flesh. That's not grace yet. That comes in Romans 8 whereby the flesh is overcome by the law of the Spirit.

Now THAT's grace.

LAW OF THE SPIRIT???? What scripture says there is a Law of the Spirit? The scripture says law of the """Spirit of life in Christ"" has made me free because the spirit has placed me """"IN CHRIST""". Not because I am sinless in the flesh..

Rom 8:1-3 ---- Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are """IN CHRIST""" Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the """Spirit of life IN CHRIST Jesus""" has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
NKJV

You quote it but you do not believe it. Verse 3, I am free from the condemnation of sin because I am no longer under the Law of Moses. I am under grace and """IN CHRIST""".

But you will not understand verse 3 because you do not want to.

 

[Nancy]

But that's still Romans 7.....not wanting to sin...but still being too weak in the flesh. That's not grace yet. That comes in Romans 8 whereby the flesh is overcome by the law of the Spirit.

Now THAT's grace.

All I will say is that His Grace has been more than sufficient in all things for me. I did not "get" that until He showed me this.
He has given me the grace to be humble. He has given me the grace to leave many decades of sinful living behind me, without looking back ♥
He has just plain given me New Life, Christ Life. I suppose perhaps the word "grace" itself means something different to others?
I re-read Rom. 7 and 8, and see in 7 Paul struggling with sin and the Law, and doing not what he wants but what sin wants him to do and, of course I see Grace all over Rom. 8. But is not His grace always active in our lives? Or, am I just blathering?? lol.

 

[H. Richard]

My snake venom...? Character assasination??? And I am blind to what I'm doing?

The world is upside down...

You will get half of the people or so agreeing with cheap grace...because it's the wide road that's easy. But don't confuse this with the narrow way that leads to life.

Faith in what you can not see or feel is the hard part and the narrow way. Faith in the work of your flesh is easy to be seen by those who place their faith in their own works.

John 20:29
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
NKJV

 

[justbyfaith]

In other words they don’t really believe that a person can be saved by faith in what God has accomplished on the cross but a person has to stop sinning by their efforts to not sin in the flesh.

It is indeed through what the Lord accomplished on the Cross...One of His primary statements on the Cross was, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. He died on the Cross to provide not only His blood for the forgiveness of past sins, but to provide His Spirit for power over present and future sins. It is written:

Rom 8:5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

and,

Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

They claim that they have been given the power to stop sin in the flesh but they do not say much, if any thing, about the work God accomplished on the cross to save them.

In my own teaching, I try to strike a balance between the two.

A man is born again through faith in what Jesus did for him on the Cross. He subsequently lives and breathes by walking according to the Spirit rather than the flesh. And of course, in order to do this he must keep in the forefront of his thinking the Cross of Christ and how it applies to his sins; including Christ's mandate for us to take up our own crosses and follow Him.

 

[Nancy]

My snake venom...? Character assasination??? And I am blind to what I'm doing?

The world is upside down...

You will get half of the people or so agreeing with cheap grace...because it's the wide road that's easy. But don't confuse this with the narrow way that leads to life.

There is nothing "easy" about the Christian walk! And, there is no such thing as "cheap grace" or as I have heard said "greasy grace". Unless of course, you are talking about "unbelievers"?

 

[justbyfaith]

It is also not speaking of blowing it in individual cases; but it is saying that if you are born again, you will walk in a certain direction concerning your behaviour when it comes down to sin and righteousness.

 

[Episkopos]

There is nothing "easy" about the Christian walk! And, there is no such thing as "cheap grace" or as I have heard said "greasy grace". Unless of course, you are talking about "unbelievers"?

Greasy grace is a denial of the power of grace over sin. It is a form of godliness but denying the power. Instead, purveyors of powerless grace....fully ignorant of God's actual power.....will accuse truth-sayers of a works based salvation....because it is a salvation that actually works.

 

[Episkopos]

Faith in what you can not see or feel is the hard part and the narrow way. Faith in the work of your flesh is easy to be seen by those who place their faith in their own works.

John 20:29
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
NKJV

Faith in God leads to miracles. Jesus said faith moves mountains. Is it so unreasonable that God's power would be sufficient to empower us to do His will?

His grace is indeed sufficient. We just need to go to Him for it.

 

[Episkopos]

All I will say is that His Grace has been more than sufficient in all things for me. I did not "get" that until He showed me this.
He has given me the grace to be humble. He has given me the grace to leave many decades of sinful living behind me, without looking back ♥
He has just plain given me New Life, Christ Life. I suppose perhaps the word "grace" itself means something different to others?
I re-read Rom. 7 and 8, and see in 7 Paul struggling with sin and the Law, and doing not what he wants but what sin wants him to do and, of course I see Grace all over Rom. 8. But is not His grace always active in our lives? Or, am I just blathering?? lol.

Sure...His grace is always at work. But people are justifying themselves as if grace was something they owned like a commodity. These people are fully unaware of God and His standard. If we claim something for ourselves...we lose any semblance of grace.

So you can't have it both ways...if you make a law out of grace...then you are hiding behind the law.

Grace gives us freedom....radical freedom....which people HATE. People instead want security and guarantees. But that is law not grace.

Throw a ball in the air and you can guarantee (have security) that it will fall down again. Is that law or grace?

 

[Episkopos]

Grace is where normal things don't happen. Grace overcomes law like an airplane overcomes gravity. The law of flight overcomes the law of gravity so that a heavy object can fly as if it was weightless.

So it is with Christ and grace. We are under the law until we enter into Christ ...then we walk as He walked in the same victory by the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead.

The problem is that this is too wonderful for people...they prefer religion.

 

[Enoch111]

Same dead horse being beaten...hyper-grace fiction. For those who enjoy fiction, enjoy the thread.

When someone mocks the pure Gospel of Grace and calls it Hyper-Grace, look out.

Eternal life is indeed a FREE GIFT to the one who believes God and believes the record that He has given unto us of His Son. That Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day for our justification. We dare not add one iota to that Gospel, which also says that God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

 

[Enoch111]

But don't confuse this with the narrow way that leads to life.

The "narrow way" is also by grace, since it is by the power of the Spirit that people walk in the Spirit (the narrow way). But the narrow gate is Christ Himself, who said "I am THE DOOR. By me if any man enter in he shall be saved". Not "may" be saved but "shall" be saved.

 

[Dave L]

The "narrow way" is also by grace, since it is by the power of the Spirit that people walk in the Spirit (the narrow way). But the narrow gate is Christ Himself, who said "I am THE DOOR. By me if any man enter in he shall be saved". Not "may" be saved but "shall" be saved.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end. This means those who believe were always saved in God's decree and never can be lost. The gospel tells them about it and because of the new birth, they believe and repent.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end. This means those who believe were always saved in God's decree and never can be lost. The gospel tells them about it and because of the new birth, they believe and repent.

Oh boy...

Whoever believes INTO Jesus has eternal life. It's a spiritual formula. It's like saying whoever enters into a plane has the life of a bird. IOW they can fly.

The eternal life that John is speaking of is a KIND of life. ZOE life. This is a spiritual life that is found IN Christ. By abiding IN Him.

But it is easier to make up a religious sounding formula that really is no different from what other religions formulate.

The Muslim promise of 72 virgins comes to mind. That is a religious formula. There's no way to prove or disprove it.

That's how Christianity became a religion just like Islam.