Beware of Men's Leaven on Rome

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Davy

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Our Lord Jesus warned us against the leaven of men's doctrines. In Matthew 16 when His disciples had forgotten to bring bread, He said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." When they didn't understand what He was talking about, He asked them if they didn't remember the miracle of the five loaves turned into five thousand, and the seven loaves into four thousand, and how many baskets of fragments they brought back up when the multitude was finished eating (12 baskets). The lesson is that they brought back much more bread than what originally went out, but what was brought back was fragments.

Our bread in the West most often has yeast (leaven) added to it, which makes it rise. It makes the loaf of bread appear to be a lot more than it really is, because it has many tiny bubbles in it when it rises. In our Lord's example the leaven represent men's doctrines added to His Word. One of the thing men's leaven doctrines do is to turn His Word into fragments. You don't get the pure whole unleavened Word, but only fragments, and a lot more of just... fragments. This is why many brethren have a hard time piecing God's Word together in their mind. It's because men's doctrines are ever busy fragmenting.

There are some Church systems today that especially practice this leaven doctrines added to God's Word regarding the endtime Antichrist, treating the pope as the Antichrist prophesied for the end of this world, and Rome as the main persecutor.

(First of all, I am not a Roman Catholic. My family's roots go back to France and the first French Protestants. They fled persecution by the Roman Church in France, which is how our family came to the Americas in the early colonial days.)

When the Protestants rebelled against the Roman Church many centuries ago, Rome sent armies to stop the rebellion. Protestants were persecuted, and some bought into the Jew's idea that the pope was the Antichrist, and that the very end was coming to pass right then. It didn't happen. We are still awaiting the time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus was talking about as a sign for the very end of this world just prior to His return.

And for today, some in the Church still take up that old lie by the first Protestants, claiming the pope is the endtime Antichrist and that Revelation 17 is pointing to Rome. It's a good deception planted by crept unaware Jews. The Jews were persecuted by pagan Rome, destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and scattered the Jews from Judea into the countries. And when Rome along with the other European nations turned to Christ, the orthodox unbelieving Jews were forced to either convert to Christ or leave. So the Jews felt unjustly persecuted by Rome. The Jews today even still blame the pope during WWII for supporting Hitler!

Thus the Jews literally hate... not just Christianity, but Rome especially. And what's funny, is that when Rome was still pagan, the Jews enjoyed religious freedom in Rome. It was Christians that were persecuted by the pagan Romans in that time, not the Jews.

Another reason behind the Jew's love at pointing the finger at Rome and the pope today, is to move suspicions away from Jerusalem regarding endtime Bible prophecy. The Revelation Babylon harlot is actually about Jerusalem as that "great city" of the last verse of Revelation 17. That is where the beast is to arise from the bottomless pit and kill God's two witnesses that are to show up there and prophesy for 1260 days (Rev.11). All the history allusions to Rome regarding that are just really... illusions and nothing more. And those illusions are designed to get you off track from keeping focus on the events to occur in Jerusalem for the very end of this world.
 

Keraz

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Jerusalem is today the capital of a nation who refuse to acknowledge Jesus. They face Judgment and punishment, a disaster that will commence all the end times events; leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

Suddenly, in an instant punishment will come from the heavens. The Lord will act in His wrath against all those who make war against Jerusalem, all those who surround Israel. With a great noise amid flames of devouring fire, earthquakes and powerful storms, they will disappear like a dream, like a vision of the night – gone when you awake. So it will be with the horde of nations who attack the holy Land. They will crumble into dust and be blown away like chaff. The fulfilment of; Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Revelation 6:12-17 and over 100 other prophesies.
This is quite a different event from Armageddon, it is the clearly prophesied Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath, a literal day of a Coronal Mass Ejection sunspot explosion, that will depopulate the Middle East and devastate the world. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1-3, 2 Peter 3:7

But, disaster will come to those who live in the Land, there will be mourning and tears when the Lord makes Jerusalem His fire altar. He will bring those people down, the survivors will hide underground, their voices will squeak out of the earth. Isaiah 31:5, Zechariah 13:8-9
Only a remnant of Christian Jews will survive. They will join their brethren in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5
 

Nondenom40

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Our Lord Jesus warned us against the leaven of men's doctrines. In Matthew 16 when His disciples had forgotten to bring bread, He said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." When they didn't understand what He was talking about, He asked them if they didn't remember the miracle of the five loaves turned into five thousand, and the seven loaves into four thousand, and how many baskets of fragments they brought back up when the multitude was finished eating (12 baskets). The lesson is that they brought back much more bread than what originally went out, but what was brought back was fragments.

Our bread in the West most often has yeast (leaven) added to it, which makes it rise. It makes the loaf of bread appear to be a lot more than it really is, because it has many tiny bubbles in it when it rises. In our Lord's example the leaven represent men's doctrines added to His Word. One of the thing men's leaven doctrines do is to turn His Word into fragments. You don't get the pure whole unleavened Word, but only fragments, and a lot more of just... fragments. This is why many brethren have a hard time piecing God's Word together in their mind. It's because men's doctrines are ever busy fragmenting.

There are some Church systems today that especially practice this leaven doctrines added to God's Word regarding the endtime Antichrist, treating the pope as the Antichrist prophesied for the end of this world, and Rome as the main persecutor.

(First of all, I am not a Roman Catholic. My family's roots go back to France and the first French Protestants. They fled persecution by the Roman Church in France, which is how our family came to the Americas in the early colonial days.)

When the Protestants rebelled against the Roman Church many centuries ago, Rome sent armies to stop the rebellion. Protestants were persecuted, and some bought into the Jew's idea that the pope was the Antichrist, and that the very end was coming to pass right then. It didn't happen. We are still awaiting the time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus was talking about as a sign for the very end of this world just prior to His return.

And for today, some in the Church still take up that old lie by the first Protestants, claiming the pope is the endtime Antichrist and that Revelation 17 is pointing to Rome. It's a good deception planted by crept unaware Jews. The Jews were persecuted by pagan Rome, destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and scattered the Jews from Judea into the countries. And when Rome along with the other European nations turned to Christ, the orthodox unbelieving Jews were forced to either convert to Christ or leave. So the Jews felt unjustly persecuted by Rome. The Jews today even still blame the pope during WWII for supporting Hitler!

Thus the Jews literally hate... not just Christianity, but Rome especially. And what's funny, is that when Rome was still pagan, the Jews enjoyed religious freedom in Rome. It was Christians that were persecuted by the pagan Romans in that time, not the Jews.

Another reason behind the Jew's love at pointing the finger at Rome and the pope today, is to move suspicions away from Jerusalem regarding endtime Bible prophecy. The Revelation Babylon harlot is actually about Jerusalem as that "great city" of the last verse of Revelation 17. That is where the beast is to arise from the bottomless pit and kill God's two witnesses that are to show up there and prophesy for 1260 days (Rev.11). All the history allusions to Rome regarding that are just really... illusions and nothing more. And those illusions are designed to get you off track from keeping focus on the events to occur in Jerusalem for the very end of this world.
Couple of things.

A. The pope is a type of anti christ just like John says in 1 John. "The" anti christ is yet to appear. Could it be a pope? Maybe but it doesn't have to be.

B. The rcc is still pagan to the core. You said 'when rome was still pagan...' Well its never not been pagan. It still has a false jesus, false holy father, false gospel, false priesthood....Claiming to sacrifice god and eat him is about as pagan as one can get.
 
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bbyrd009

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Davy

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Couple of things.

A. The pope is a type of anti christ just like John says in 1 John. "The" anti christ is yet to appear. Could it be a pope? Maybe but it doesn't have to be.

The pope is not 'the Antichrist'. But a pope can be one of the "many antichrists" that Apostle John also mentioned.

Our Lord Jesus already showed us who the Antichrist at the end of this world is going to be. He's going to be established as king by a small group of orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, and he will be presented by them as the Messiah of The Old Testament prophets. When all the Bible prophecies in The Old Testament and New Testament are put together about the false one to come at the end of this world just prior to Christ's return, that is who the Antichrist that's coming will be they will setup, i.e., in Jerusalem. Our Lord Jesus' Revelation is even more specific who he will be, but the majority will not understand that until our Lord Jesus returns.


B. The rcc is still pagan to the core. You said 'when rome was still pagan...' Well its never not been pagan. It still has a false jesus, false holy father, false gospel, false priesthood....Claiming to sacrifice god and eat him is about as pagan as one can get.

I'm not a Catholic but I am a Protestant Christian, however, I see no use in smearing when there are just as many so-called Protestant Churches today still celebrating old pagan ideas too, like swapping the old pagan day Easter in place of Christian passover (1 Corinthians 5:7), and still using a lot of old pagan symbols for Christmas, etc. I do not recognize the supposed authority of a Catholic pope over Christ's Church. Our Lord Jesus Christ is The Head of every Church of His. But just as there were beth-avens (house of vanity) in the old days of Israel, so likewise there are still beth-aven churches today. Study in God's Word and heeding Him by The Holy Spirit shows us this so we won't be deceived. Being protected from deception is not guaranteed just because we may not attend one of those beth-avens.
 

Mungo

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B. The rcc is still pagan to the core. You said 'when rome was still pagan...' Well its never not been pagan. It still has a false jesus, false holy father, false gospel, false priesthood....Claiming to sacrifice god and eat him is about as pagan as one can get.

The Catholic Church (not RCC) is not pagan, doesn't have a false Jesus, doesn't have a false holy father, false gospel, false priesthood or claim to sacrifice god. Your saying so doesn't make it true. It just demonstrates your ignorance and bigotry.
 
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Josho

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Nothing to with thread, just here to say Yay @Mungo is back!!!! Welcome back mate, haven't seen you post in a while.
 
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Davy

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It is the spirit of man that is antichrist.

That is a false teaching of deceived churches. Apostle John spoke of a singular "antichrist" entity the brethren had already heard shall come (1 John 2:18). In the Greek that word antichrist doesn't just mean 'against' like pro and con. It can mean 'instead of' or 'in place of', thus instead of Christ. The event of a false one that is to come is a subject for the end of this world given in God's Word. Apostle Paul made it specific that false one sitting in a temple in Jerusalem is to be revealed first before Jesus comes to gather His Church (2 Thessalonians 2). So especially today there is no excuse to be listening to false prophets today in the beth-aven churches instead of God in His Word.
 

Heavenbound

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Our Lord Jesus warned us against the leaven of men's doctrines. In Matthew 16 when His disciples had forgotten to bring bread, He said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." When they didn't understand what He was talking about, He asked them if they didn't remember the miracle of the five loaves turned into five thousand, and the seven loaves into four thousand, and how many baskets of fragments they brought back up when the multitude was finished eating (12 baskets). The lesson is that they brought back much more bread than what originally went out, but what was brought back was fragments.

Our bread in the West most often has yeast (leaven) added to it, which makes it rise. It makes the loaf of bread appear to be a lot more than it really is, because it has many tiny bubbles in it when it rises. In our Lord's example the leaven represent men's doctrines added to His Word. One of the thing men's leaven doctrines do is to turn His Word into fragments. You don't get the pure whole unleavened Word, but only fragments, and a lot more of just... fragments. This is why many brethren have a hard time piecing God's Word together in their mind. It's because men's doctrines are ever busy fragmenting.

There are some Church systems today that especially practice this leaven doctrines added to God's Word regarding the endtime Antichrist, treating the pope as the Antichrist prophesied for the end of this world, and Rome as the main persecutor.

(First of all, I am not a Roman Catholic. My family's roots go back to France and the first French Protestants. They fled persecution by the Roman Church in France, which is how our family came to the Americas in the early colonial days.)

When the Protestants rebelled against the Roman Church many centuries ago, Rome sent armies to stop the rebellion. Protestants were persecuted, and some bought into the Jew's idea that the pope was the Antichrist, and that the very end was coming to pass right then. It didn't happen. We are still awaiting the time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus was talking about as a sign for the very end of this world just prior to His return.

And for today, some in the Church still take up that old lie by the first Protestants, claiming the pope is the endtime Antichrist and that Revelation 17 is pointing to Rome. It's a good deception planted by crept unaware Jews. The Jews were persecuted by pagan Rome, destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and scattered the Jews from Judea into the countries. And when Rome along with the other European nations turned to Christ, the orthodox unbelieving Jews were forced to either convert to Christ or leave. So the Jews felt unjustly persecuted by Rome. The Jews today even still blame the pope during WWII for supporting Hitler!

Thus the Jews literally hate... not just Christianity, but Rome especially. And what's funny, is that when Rome was still pagan, the Jews enjoyed religious freedom in Rome. It was Christians that were persecuted by the pagan Romans in that time, not the Jews.

Another reason behind the Jew's love at pointing the finger at Rome and the pope today, is to move suspicions away from Jerusalem regarding endtime Bible prophecy. The Revelation Babylon harlot is actually about Jerusalem as that "great city" of the last verse of Revelation 17. That is where the beast is to arise from the bottomless pit and kill God's two witnesses that are to show up there and prophesy for 1260 days (Rev.11). All the history allusions to Rome regarding that are just really... illusions and nothing more. And those illusions are designed to get you off track from keeping focus on the events to occur in Jerusalem for the very end of this world.

Who are those who say they’re Jews but are not in this belief ?
 

Davy

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Who are those who say they’re Jews but are not in this belief ?

I assume you're referring to the "synagogue of Satan" that Jesus warned of in Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9.

Those are the crept in unawares of the Book of Jude. They are not of true Judah. They are foreigners that crept in.

Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

KJV

It began with the Canaanite nations which Israel was not able to fully destroy, which God had commanded Israel to completely destroy because of their iniquity (Deut.20). Because Israel failed in that God said He would leave those Canaanites among Israel to test them with, to see if His people would follow Him or not (Judges 2 & 3). Their toying with the children of Israel, especially among the tribe of Judah, would be a continuous repeating theme from that OT time forward, and still is a factor among the Jews today.

In final, this in red will be said in Jerusalem...

Zech 14:21
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

KJV

Those are who Jesus was pointing to in Matthew 13 in the parable of the tares of the field. By the time of Solomon, they had become bondservants in Israel. By the time of Ezra, they had become Nethinims and priests crept into the Levitical priesthood, and many of the children of the house of Judah had taken Canaanite wives during their 70 years Babylon captivity (Ezra 9).

Per 1 Chronicles 2:55, many of Israel's scribes that dwelt at Jabez in charge of keeping God's Holy Writ in letters were of the Canaanites, specifically of the Kenites, a people that lived in the lands of Canaan when the children of Israel entered into the lands (see Gen.15:19).

Bible scholar Albert Barnes said it pretty well about the Kenites that crept in among Judah...

"1 Chron 2:55
[Kenites] It is remarkable that Kenites-people of a race quite distinct from the Israelites (Gen 15:19)-should be attached to, and, as it were, included in the descendants of Judah. It seems, however, that the friendly feeling between the two tribes-based on the conduct of the Kenites at the time of the Exodus (Ex 18:10-19; Num 10:29-32; 1 Sam 15:6)-led to their intermixture and almost amalgamation with the Israelites, Kenite families not only dwelling among them but being actually regarded as of one blood with them."
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)

This subject is taboo in today's Churches. Yet it is there in a lot of God's Word, even by our Lord Jesus. The tares are still hidden today. We are not to be concerned, but follow Christ Jesus and let God take care of these when the time comes.

Thus the false Jew is actually about these crept in unawares that crept in among Israel long ago and became religious Jews. Same with Idumeans of Esau that became Jews back in history after God gave Israel to destroy the nation of Edom. It's impossible to know just who is of bloodline Judah today and who isn't. Today's Jews can claim bloodline purity all they want, but it's just no longer possible to prove it, even with DNA (i.e., just who is going to be the baseline sample?).

What we are to understand is that Christ's Salvation is offered to ALL peoples, if they will repent and believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ. But the 'tares' is a matter that is setup to do a certain working in today's world, and our Heavenly Father is allowing it for this world.
 

Keraz

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Today's Jews can claim bloodline purity all they want, but it's just no longer possible to prove it, even with DNA (i.e., just who is going to be the baseline sample?).
Most of the Israeli people who call themselves Jews today, are not true descendants of Judah.
They descend from the Khazar tribe, who converted to Judaism centuries ago. Or the more recent wannabe Jews from Ethiopia, etc.

As you point out, anyone who accepts Jesus will be saved. But of Jewish Israel: only .05%, if that, have become Christian.
Many Bible prophesies tell of their Judgment/ punishment on the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 22:1-14, Romans 9:27
Even the righteous will be killed. Ezekiel 21:1-7

This truth is the total refutation of the 'rapture theory', where the Jews stay here during the Great Tribulation, while the Christians go to heaven. Absolute unbiblical rubbish.
 

Enoch111

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The Catholic Church (not RCC) is not pagan, doesn't have a false Jesus, doesn't have a false holy father, false gospel, false priesthood or claim to sacrifice god. Your saying so doesn't make it true. It just demonstrates your ignorance and bigotry.
Sounds more like hair-splitting than anything else. Whether you call it the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Coptic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, etc., all these traditionalist church groups have incorporated false doctrines and practices into their religious systems. They may call them "Holy Tradition" but whatever is not based upon Bible truth cannot be true.
 

Enoch111

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This truth is the total refutation of the 'rapture theory', where the Jews stay here during the Great Tribulation, while the Christians go to heaven. Absolute unbiblical rubbish.
The Rapture is not a theory, and neither is the Tribulation period for unbelieving Jews. However, you are welcome to your opinion, no matter how mistaken.
 

Mungo

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Sounds more like hair-splitting than anything else. Whether you call it the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Coptic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, etc., all these traditionalist church groups have incorporated false doctrines and practices into their religious systems. They may call them "Holy Tradition" but whatever is not based upon Bible truth cannot be true.

I can't speak for the others but the Catholic Church has not incorporated false doctrines and practices into its religious system.
 

Enoch111

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I can't speak for the others but the Catholic Church has not incorporated false doctrines and practices into its religious system.
OK. So tell us what you believe about justification by grace through faith and imputed righteousness.
 

Philip James

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Whether you call it the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Coptic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, etc.,

Hello Enoch,

Which is more likely,
That these churches you mention ,which have been separated for more than a thousand years and teach essentialy the same things, are indeed the community that Christ established through His apostles.

Or that you, devoid of any connection with the Church Jesus established, having taken our scriptures for yourself, are qualified to judge us?

Peace!
 
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Keraz

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The Rapture is not a theory, and neither is the Tribulation period for unbelieving Jews. However, you are welcome to your opinion, no matter how mistaken.
THEORY; An unproven idea, an opinion about a possible result or outcome. OED
Exactly what the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church is. There is no scripture that says that is what God plans to do for His people.

What is prophesied to happen to the apostate, atheistic, LGBT, Jesus rejecting people who call themselves Jews, is plainly stated in over 20 prophesies. They will not survive the Lord's fiery wrath and only a remnant will join their Christian brethren. Romans 9:27

Your beliefs, Enoch111, are held by many Christians so I suppose you feel comfortable with their support. But are those beliefs correct?
You should never take a teaching of such great importance in these times, without being very careful to confirm it in scripture.

You say yourself how some Churchs have incorporated false doctrines into their beliefs. Is it impossible for you to be deceived, like them?
 

Mungo

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OK. So tell us what you believe about justification by grace through faith and imputed righteousness.

If you are making claims it is up to you to prove them.
Until then your opinions are worthless.
 

bbyrd009

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The pope is not 'the Antichrist'. But a pope can be one of the "many antichrists" that Apostle John also mentioned.

Our Lord Jesus already showed us who the Antichrist at the end of this world is going to be. He's going to be established as king by a small group of orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, and he will be presented by them as the Messiah of The Old Testament prophets. When all the Bible prophecies in The Old Testament and New Testament are put together about the false one to come at the end of this world just prior to Christ's return, that is who the Antichrist that's coming will be they will setup, i.e., in Jerusalem. Our Lord Jesus' Revelation is even more specific who he will be, but the majority will not understand that until our Lord Jesus returns.




I'm not a Catholic but I am a Protestant Christian, however, I see no use in smearing when there are just as many so-called Protestant Churches today still celebrating old pagan ideas too, like swapping the old pagan day Easter in place of Christian passover (1 Corinthians 5:7), and still using a lot of old pagan symbols for Christmas, etc. I do not recognize the supposed authority of a Catholic pope over Christ's Church. Our Lord Jesus Christ is The Head of every Church of His. But just as there were beth-avens (house of vanity) in the old days of Israel, so likewise there are still beth-aven churches today. Study in God's Word and heeding Him by The Holy Spirit shows us this so we won't be deceived. Being protected from deception is not guaranteed just because we may not attend one of those beth-avens.
your sure sound awful sure sir, even if i agree at points. And no offense but Our Lord Jesus is suddenly reading...a bit exclusively, fwiw. Hope you are well :)