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Featured Bible Study Methods

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by John Caldwell, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    On another thread a member asked how I advocate approaching the study of Scripture. Unfortunately the entire purpose of that thread was to troll me (which I knew before responding, but did anyway). So let’s look at methods.

    Hopefully we can learn from each other and perhaps gain tools for our personal studies.

    I have adopted the process(es) that I’ve learned from the works I’ve suggested elsewhere (New Testament Exegesis by Gordon Fee; The Hermeneutical Spiral by Grant Osborne; and Grasping God’s Word by Duvall and Hays). So for a source or fuller explanation of my method you may want to consult these references.

    My process is, briefly, as follows:

    Pray.Read the entire book from which the passage you want to explore comes at least twice without using a commentary.

    Survey the historical context in general. Consider the original audience and how they are similar and how they are different from us.

    Read the text through in several translations to include competing translations (especially competing translations).


    Analyze sentence structures and syntactical relationships. Make a sentence flow and a sentence diagram (I prefer vertically if examining larger passages, indenting to show any shifts).

    The first thing you want to do in a sentence diagram is to distinguish between major and minor clauses. Clauses are those parts of the sentence that contain a subject and a predicate. The difference between a major and minor clause is that a major clause can stand alone while a minor clause cannot.

    Research the historical and cultural background. Pay attention to how the original audience would have understood the authors words and how the words have been understood throughout history.

    I guess that’s it in a “nutshell”, although I’m sure it’s incomplete.
     
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  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    @John Caldwell why not do an example on either Genesis 12:1 and 13:14-17, or Luke 19:12-27 to demonstrate how your process works. I have been berated by others on this forum that my understandings are false teachings.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  3. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I will when I get back home.
     
  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    I will await your responding post.

    Shalom
     
  5. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Looking forward to this. Hopefully, the Mods will help us keep the Puppy Squad from nipping at your heels.
     
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  6. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I can't walk through those passages (they are more extensive than I can address). But I would love to discuss them and learn your interpretation. Here is an example of what I am speaking of:

    Genesis 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

    My impression is that God commanded Adam that he can eat from any tree of the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, because on the day that Adam eats of the fruit death is a certainty.

    The LORD God
    commanded the man, saying,
    "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
    but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
    for in the day that you eat from
    it you will surely die."

    What stands out to me is the concept of this “tree” being of the “knowledge of good and evil” and “surely die”.
    daath refers to knowledge or truth
    ra refers to evil, distress, injury, clamity
    muth means to die. The word translated “surely” is “to die”. Literally “muth, muth” or “to die, to die”.

    Hebrew custom uses the repetition of words and ideas as an emphatic (Proverbs; Psalms; the use of “amen, amen”).

    The object of the passage is God’s command of man. The command allows man to eat of any tree freely except one. The command gives a statement – on the day you eat from the tree death will be a certainty.

    Observations:

    1. The passage does not speak of two deaths, but the certainty of death.

    2. The passage does not state that Adam would die on the day he ate of the fruit.

    3. The passage presents death a consequence, not a punishment, of eating of the fruit.

    I hope this gives a bit of insight into my process. I would then look up the passage and compare what commentators (those more smarter than me) offer.
     
  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Am I correct in also seeing all the rest of the "trees" as representing not trees and the eating of pieces of fruit, at all, but a whole lot more in the life we live and the choices we make and the paths we take?
     
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  8. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I think so. The "trees" part is difficult for me. But since we have the "Tree of Life", I think you are correct.

    I wonder if both are not true (the choices and a literal act). I've gone back and forward with this one.
     
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  9. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    It does make me wonder. Especially since ALL the rest of "the trees" are open to us to partake of. It seems to speak a lot to the foolishness of the religious taboos we put on things (acts and actions) that are contrary to the things we, personally decide are acceptable and "approved."
    It's like we have walked through the Garden, tacking up "No Trespassing" signs on certain trees we select. And as we do so, we pass other groups nailing up their own "Verboten!" signs on different trees..... or, maybe even on our own favorite trees.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Can I push what you have written a little further.

    In Gen 2:17 we have the following expression: -

    mō·wṯ tā·mūṯ.​

    It should be understood to read, in my view, as: - “you will die the second death.

    “tā·mūṯ” according to Biblehub.com is found in the following scriptures: -


    However, I am not sure that the usage of tā·mūṯ has been consistently used throughout the OT with this meaning of the second death by the writers of the OT, but it has also been used in the sense that a person death is inevitable because of some transgression against the person who is making the statement that the person will die.

    This has possibly come about because the Israelites could not comprehend how a death could occur so far into the future for a transgression against God. Because we have the book of Revelation, our understanding of the second death is associated with the final judgement of all of mankind at the end of the age of the present ages.

    I would suggest that the Egyptians knew the consequences of the second death at the time that Abraham went down to Egypt when they asked Abraha what he had done to them. Abimelech also knew the consequences of tā·mūṯ when God confronted him because he had taken Sarah to be his wife.

    The second death and the abyss which have been present since the period of the beginning of time, we are told in Revelation 20 are also consumed in the lake of fire which means that sin will be no more after that time.

    Shalom
     
  11. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe we can push it that far, but I have not had time to go through the passages you offer (I am not arguing against your post, only stating where I stand on it prior to going through the passages you have provided).

    There are weveral reasons I believe this. One reason is "death" in the Old Testament (as far as I know) is specifically a physical death and seems to focus on Sheol, not the Judgement. Another is the association of returning to the dust from which they came (a physical death). There is no mention if a spiritual death in type. Adam is never said to have been created with "spiritual life". The language is used in Scripture as a definitive statement. As far as I can see, it is not used to mean "second" or "another". In the New Testament we read that it is apoointed man once to die and then the Judgment.

    Also, the Judgment is Christ-centered and a punishment. "Death" here is offered as a consequence of eating the fruit. The "punishment" seems to be the curse God proclaims to Adam and Eve.

    That is where I am now, anyway. But I have not worked through the passages that you have provided. If "death" is used to mean the Judgment then I will have to reevaluate my position.

    I look forward to going through the passages you've posted. Perhaps I will have to refine my understanding.

    John
     
  12. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    I am still looking forward to your responses.

    Shalom
     
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  13. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    As am I. It is good to have someone rational offer to share their knowledge.
     
  14. Man on Fire

    Man on Fire Member

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    In Early Christianity, some of the smartest men in a country may have been teachers of religious law. Some of the smartest men in a country were the ones who knew how to read, knew how to think, may have been people state authorities came to for advice. An interesting dichotomy has been prophet Amos who was a shepherd, and Jesus Christ a carpenter's son. God has an upside down Kingdom, and followers of Jesus were salt of the Earth. To understand the Bible well, someone may need to have an understanding of God and creation and spiritual logic.

    Anyone can read the Bible, and there are different learning styles. Some people are visual learners. Some people can read a lot, and walk away with a lot of understanding and retention. Some people are doers. They learn by doing. In studying the Bible, someone should have good background information with the stories of the Bible. They may need to read it through Genesis to Revelations, possibly skipping over Psalms and Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, and coming back to those to address them in a different way. Someone is looking at the story of the Bible. What happened between the last of the Books of the Prophets and Jesus and John the Baptist? Someone may need to also understand the Maccabees and the history there at some point.

    Given someone was brought up a Church, he may have had a lot of learning of the stories of the Bible like the Story of Noah or the Story of King David. Maybe as a child he had an illustrated Bible or something. Something he could read and understand that perked his interests. Something.

    Allegorical interpretation of scripture

    I don't know that I 100% agree with Origen and how he words everything. I may need to talk with someone more knowledgeable about the topic. What I would like to point out, and where I believe that Origen has been correct, is there are layers to understanding and layers to the spiritual. Layers to understanding may be like Bloom's Taxonomy. There is an spiritual understanding which early Christian Origen believed to be the highest level of thought, and since the Enlightenment, many "Academic Institutions" have worked to divorce themselves from a Spiritual understanding. An article I have found as an introduction to Spiritual understanding may be:

    Article: "Spiritual Realms" Kingdom Watchers.

    To understanding the Spiritual, someone may need a conceptual understanding of the Bible. Given someone's conceptual understanding has been correct, the concept may seem to flow through the Bible. Given someone has a spiritual or conceptual understanding they have God's Holy Spirit in a big way. The Holy Ghost is a teacher and a councilor.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  15. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I will try to articulate what I believe on the topic and address the passages. I’ll apologize in advance for my inadequacy (I am finding it difficult to organize the why in a logical expression as it seems necessary to touch on my view of “original sin” while not going into a tangent of the particulars of that and related presuppositions I carry into my view here). Add to that the fact that I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed and you may grasp my hesitance. I post not to share my knowledge but to offer an explanation of my understanding of the topic.

    Going through the passages this is what I understand of “death” in the verses.

    Genesis 2:17: I believe that this is referring to a physical death and the double use of “die” to emphasize the certainty of this death. It became certain that Adam (and man) would die. I do not see this as a diversion from God’s intended purpose in Creation, but rather that this is the point where death, through sin, entered the world (mankind) and man’s enslavement to sin and death became apparent through human nature manifested in this act of disobedience.

    Jeremiah 26:8 is a very good example of what I am talking about. The language says “die,die” in dealing with the priests and prophets plot to murder Jeremiah. Here we see ‏מוּת‎ ‏מוּת‎ (muth muth) indicating the groups decision that Jeremiah must surely die (a physical death) for his warning against Judah. Jeremiah is, of course, spared this death sentence.


    Going throughGenesis 20:7: Exodus 10:28;Exodus 7:18; 1 Samuel 20:2; 1 Samuel 22:16;2 Samuel 12:13; 2 Samuel 19:2; 1 Kings 2:37; 1 Kings 2:42; 2 Kings 1:4; 2 Kings 1:6; 2 Kings 1:16,Ecclesiastes 7:17; Samuel 14:44;Judges 6:23;Isaiah 22:18; Jeremiah 11:21; Jeremiah 20:6, I believe all of these passages refer to a physical death (one speaks of the death of fish).

    Job 12:2: This passage uses death as an end (not a physical death or a spiritual death). The passage says that wisdom will die.

    Isaiah 66:24 speaks of undying torment (their worm will never die and their fire will not be quenched. And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind). The use of not dying, IMHO, speaks of a never-ending state (neither a physical or spiritual death).

    Ezekiel 18:4, 20 I believe this may be speaking of a spiritual death. Here God declares that the soul that sins will die, except that the wicked man turns from his sins and then his transgressions will be forgiven. “Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

    The closest parallel in terms of the language and use of “die die” as read in Genesis 2:17 is Jeremiah 26:8. The passage in Jeremiah uses “die die” to mean “surely die” or “must die”. I believe this is speaking of a physical death because the subject is the killing of Jeremiah for what he spoke.

    So I believe that Genesis speaks of the certainty of physical death. I do not see a reason in the text to believe otherwise. I'll continue in a bit and explain more on my view, but I wanted to explain how I consider the expression "מוּת‎ מוּת‎ " , why I do not believe it is speaking of two deaths, and why I believe it is speaking of a physical death (in terms of the text itself).
     
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  16. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I think that the concept of “original sin” comes up here as well.

    Growing up in a Baptist church I was taught that Adam sinned and because of that sin Adam died spiritually and later died physically. I have grown to believe this is an error for several reasons.

    First, there are no passages that state Adam was created with a “spiritual life” so that he could spiritually die. Scripture describes “spiritual life” as being “in Christ”, and Christ Himself as this “life”. I find the idea that Adam was somehow created with a “spiritual life” highly suspect as Adam would have been created without the need of a Savior. In one sense there was, at the moment of creation, no need as Adam was created “upright”. But the need was there nonetheless as God is not bound by the constraints of time (God is eternal and Christ is the Lamb slain from the very foundation of the world).

    Second, Scripture teaches that sins are manifestations of our nature. Adam was created as man; created in the Imago Dei, but created man nonetheless. As such, I believe it reasonable that man would fall short of the glory of God because man was created short of the glory of God. I believe that there is a consistency of Scripture in that sin is rooted in our desires. This is apparent, I believe, in that Adam sinned without “falling” (his sin was his “fall”). God’s command brought to Adam (man) his very nature.

    In that, I do not believe we have “fallen natures”, but instead we have “human natures”.
     
  17. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Those are some very interesting thoughts to mull over.
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    John all that anyone can do is share their understanding of what God has had written in the scriptures by the prophets and scribes. Whether or not we are right is a moot point and there are people who will argue until the cows come home as to what the right understanding is. I will comment on your post in sections and provide my understanding, hopefully with enough detail, to make my position clear on the scriptures referenced in that section of your post.

    The bible is silent as to whether or not the physical death of mankind was part of God’s purposes for mankind from the beginning of time/creation as the abyss/”the deep” is first mentioned in Genesis 1:2 in the statement: - “and darkness covered/“was upon” the face of the deep.” The abyss was the place where people who were destined for the punishment of the second death would go to, upon their physical death, to await their punishment. (Isaiah 24:21-22)

    Now it is my understanding that sin and the consequences of the second death go hand in hand, but God’s heart is that no man should die the second death and if a wicked man repents of his sins where in Ezekiel 18:4 tells us that the “the souls of those who sins will experience the second death”, we are also told in Ezekiel 18:21-23: -

    Ezekiel 18:21-23: - 21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die, {i.e. the inference here is that he will not die the second death}. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord God, "and that he should not turn from his ways to live?​

    The best understanding I have come up with for מ֥וֹת תָּמֽוּת (reading from right to left) of Genesis 2:17 is: - if we sin, i.e. eat of the tree of knowledge in the case of Adam in Genesis, that we become a candidate for the second death in the distant future at the time of the judgement found in Revelation 20:11-15. The reason I say that we are a candidate for the second death is that, as mentioned in Ezekiel 18:21-23 above, if we repent of our sins, then God revokes our candidacy fo the second death and gives us the gift of life if we remain in Him.

    Paul in Romans 5:12 wrote the following: -

    Romans 5:12: - 12 Therefore, just as through one man, sin entered the world, and death, {i.e. the second death}, through sin, and thus death, {i.e. the second death}, spread to all men, because all have sinned​

    It is my view that the second death is mentioned throughout the whole scriptures.


    John, first off


    Here is Jeremiah 20:8 in table format: - (source Biblehub.com)

    Strong's

    Hebrew

    Transiterated

    English

    Morphology

    1961 [e]

    וַיְהִ֣י ׀
    way-hî

    And it came to pass

    Conj-w | V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms

    3615 [e]

    כְּכַלּ֣וֹת
    kə-ḵal-lō-wṯ

    when had made an end

    Prep-k | V-Piel-Inf

    3414 [e]

    יִרְמְיָ֗הוּ
    yir-mə-yā-hū,

    Jeremiah

    N-proper-ms

    1696 [e]

    לְדַבֵּר֙
    lə-ḏab-bêr

    of speaking

    Prep-l | V-Piel-Inf

    853 [e]

    אֵ֣ת
    ’êṯ

    -

    DirObjM

    3605 [e]

    כָּל־
    kāl-

    all

    N-msc

    834 [e]

    אֲשֶׁר־
    ’ă-šer-

    that

    Pro-r

    6680 [e]

    צִוָּ֣ה
    ṣiw-wāh

    had commanded [him]

    V-Piel-Perf-3ms

    3068 [e]

    יְהוָ֔ה
    Yah-weh,

    Yahweh

    N-proper-ms

    1696 [e]

    לְדַבֵּ֖ר
    lə-ḏab-bêr

    to speak

    Prep-l | V-Piel-Inf

    413 [e]

    אֶל־
    ’el-

    to

    Prep

    3605 [e]

    כָּל־
    kāl-

    all

    N-msc

    5971 [e]

    הָעָ֑ם
    hā-‘ām;

    the people

    Art | N-ms

    8610 [e]

    וַיִּתְפְּשׂ֨וּ
    way-yiṯ-pə-śū

    that seized

    Conj-w | V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3mp

    853 [e]

    אֹת֜וֹ
    ’ō-ṯōw

    him

    DirObjM | 3ms

    3548 [e]

    הַכֹּהֲנִ֧ים
    hak-kō-hă-nîm

    the priests

    Art | N-mp

    5030 [e]

    וְהַנְּבִאִ֛ים
    wə-han-nə-ḇi-’îm

    and the prophets

    Conj-w, Art | N-mp

    3605 [e]

    וְכָל־
    wə-ḵāl

    and all

    Conj-w | N-msc

    5971 [e]

    הָעָ֥ם
    hā-‘ām

    the people

    Art | N-ms

    559 [e]

    לֵאמֹ֖ר
    lê-mōr

    saying

    Prep-l | V-Qal-Inf

    4191 [e]

    מ֥וֹת
    mō-wṯ


    surely

    V-Qal-InfAbs

    4191 [e]

    תָּמֽוּת׃
    tā-mūṯ.


    You will die

    V-Qal-Imperf-2ms

    Taking the last two rows of the above table, I would suggest that it is saying the following: -

    Strong's

    Hebrew

    Transiterated

    English

    Morphology

    4191 [e]

    מ֥וֹת
    mō-wṯ


    “You will die

    V-Qal-InfAbs

    4191 [e]

    תָּמֽוּת׃
    tā-mūṯ.


    the second death”

    V-Qal-Imperf-2ms

    (Notice John that you have provided the Hebrew root word for the actual Hebrew text words and not the actual Hebrew words found in the Hebrew text in Jeremiah 26:8)

    Why did they say this? Because they believed that he was not prophesying on behalf of God because of what he was saying. Read it below within the context of what is recorded in Jeremiah 26: -

    Jeremiah 26:7-11: - 7 So the priests and the prophets and all the people heard Jeremiah speaking these words in the house of the Lord. 8 Now it happened, when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking all that the Lord had commanded him to speak to all the people, that the priests and the prophets and all the people seized him, saying, "You will die the second death! 9 Why have you prophesied in the name of the Lord, saying, 'This house shall be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate, without an inhabitant'?" And all the people were gathered against Jeremiah in the house of the Lord.

    10 When the princes of Judah heard these things, they came up from the king's house to the house of the Lord and sat down in the entry of the New Gate of the Lord's house. 11 And the priests and the prophets spoke to the princes and all the people, saying, "This man deserves to die! For he has prophesied against this city, as you have heard with your ears."

    12 Then Jeremiah spoke to all the princes and all the people, saying: "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city with all the words that you have heard. 13 Now therefore, amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; then the Lord will relent concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you. 14 As for me, here I am, in your hand; do with me as seems good and proper to you. 15 But know for certain that if you put me to death, you will surely bring innocent blood on yourselves, on this city, and on its inhabitants; for truly the Lord has sent me to you to speak all these words in your hearing."

    16 So the princes and all the people said to the priests and the prophets, "This man does not deserve to die. For he has spoken to us in the name of the Lord our God."​

    The priests and the prophets believed that Jeremiah was sinning, in that he was, in their view, speaking against God, and as such, he would die the second death. Because he was speaking against God, they then said that he should be killed because of what he had said about The temple and Jerusalem.

    The elders of the land then rose to Jeremiah’s defence and spoke of the prophet Micah’s prophecy concerning the Temple and Jerusalem.


    To be continued when time permits.
     
  19. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    Jay,

    I appreciate your insight and look forward to you continuing this line of thought.

    One thing I should mention is that I do view the "Fall" as being human centered while I view the "second death" as directly related to a Judgment in Christ. In other words, I view Adam's sin as the sin of mankind resulting in a physical death while I view the "second death" as a result of the Cross (a result of Christ as the "last Adam"). I do not know that I can justify that view if pressed (as it has always been appointed man once to die and then the Judgment), but the presupposition is there nonetheless.

    John
     
  20. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    as iv posted in other threads,
    I look at 1st in the bible weather the different styles of text are, historical narrative, commandments, poems psalms etc. I also look at the historical context, I look at both Hebrew and greek translations. I look at text commentary's and cross references, I look at wat other members of the body are saying, pastors, preachers. I then use induction, then logic given 2 me by God, then I listern 2 wat the holy spirit is saying!! then I come 2 my conclusion!!
     
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