Born again
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes.
"those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace" Romans 8:5-6
"For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose." Philippians 2:13
"For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose." Philippians 2:13
Good answer, are the two minds at enmity with each other?
Kind of an obvious answer but want to see we’re on same page.
Kind of an obvious answer but want to see we’re on same page.
So when Apostle Paul says “ that which I would do I cannot, and that which I would not do that I find myself doing, oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death” this is an example of the war between the two souls?
Moonstone Eterni
Active Member
Being born-again as a Christian is not just an analogy for being forgiven and receiving a blank slate; it’s where the Holy Spirits renews the mind and soul, bringing the new believer closer and closer to God’s righteousness and heavenly wisdom. Indeed, to be born-again is to receive special enlightenment and, once developed and matured, to have the spiritual wisdom of a saint.
RR144
Well-Known Member
The new mind is a process. It's one that needs development, and the only way to develop it is as the Apostle counsel us in
Ephesians 4:21-23
"21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind."
"and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."
And we become the New Creation by
"put[ting] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and mak[ing] no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." - Romans 13:14
"For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please."
"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 John 2
Pray this helps
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, I believe that's Paul in his frustrated state of the flesh trying to serve God before being born again.
Moonstone Eterni
Active Member
Paul wanted to stop sinning but couldn’t; he had difficulty achieving such a state of perfection. That is one reason why we have Christ as redeemer: So we don’t have to be perfect and can walk with God despite our imperfections. Those scriptures aren’t talking about two different souls (a human can’t have two souls); it’s Paul describing his cognitive dissonance.
Okay, let me use this example,
When the Apostle John writes, he that sins is of the devil and he that sins not is of God.
Could that be applied to the two minds at war in our members?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
That controversy goes back at least 4 centuries, with Jacob Arminius arguing that Paul is describing a man before being spiritually regenerated, while the followers of John Calvin argued that he is describing a man after he has been regenerated and become aware of his condition.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
I think your "two minds" nomenclature here is preferable. And as I side comment, I think it is unfortunate that Paul chose to use the gnostic term "flesh" to identify that power of Sin (upper-case "S") that pulls us toward selfishness and rebellion and evil. The term "flesh" did not have that shade of meaning to our Jewish spiritual ancestors.
Nevertheless, my experience is that this power does exist within me. I will note that some Christians claim this power no longer has any effect on them. I'll leave that open for now.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
After much contemplation of the passage I'm with Arminius on this one. I have the T-shirt for that one. Been there done that. Getting born again was the answer to it. Chapter 8 is the answer to chapter 7.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
There's actually a third interpretive option, but I don't want to take Avagabond's thread down that rathole. There are plenty of other threads to discuss that topic. There's something about the question of whether the fault lies in our stars or in ourselves, in our nature or in our nurture, that obsesses mankind.
You'll be aware of things taking place in your mind. The battle for your mind. However, it's going to be unseen. You'll want to repent or confess your sins to God, out with them. Along with doing other things.
I think so. The one that sins is the old man, the flesh which is a sin nature. The one that sins not is the new man, the spirit of God.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You mean as to what caused the bondage in Romans 7 that we are in that requires the rescue described in Romans 8?
Interesting answers folks, much appreciated!
A lot of it is beyond my education, but seems well thought out and honest.
I want to spike it up a notch.
The bible speaks of God doing a lot of dividing, two edged sword, lambs and sheep, Abram and Abraham, Isaac and Ismael, Jacob and Israel, the law and Grace, tree of knowledge and tree of life, discerning between the letter and the spirit of the word, the first and the last, the lion and the lamb and most interesting to me, the two cherubims.
If one was to take the bible to a more personal level, and applied it to their old self and new self(by faith) I could see it being quite useful.
I.E. not comparing ourselves to each other but comparing our new self to our old self, and start applying his letter of the word to our flesh and his promises to our new man. Sort of like “discerning between his flesh and blood” AKA “communion”
Just a thought anxious to read all your comments.
A lot of it is beyond my education, but seems well thought out and honest.
I want to spike it up a notch.
The bible speaks of God doing a lot of dividing, two edged sword, lambs and sheep, Abram and Abraham, Isaac and Ismael, Jacob and Israel, the law and Grace, tree of knowledge and tree of life, discerning between the letter and the spirit of the word, the first and the last, the lion and the lamb and most interesting to me, the two cherubims.
If one was to take the bible to a more personal level, and applied it to their old self and new self(by faith) I could see it being quite useful.
I.E. not comparing ourselves to each other but comparing our new self to our old self, and start applying his letter of the word to our flesh and his promises to our new man. Sort of like “discerning between his flesh and blood” AKA “communion”
Just a thought anxious to read all your comments.
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